What's more important the Press or the Dies?

[jeepstrapped]

I think I am getting close to the point where reloading and a Single Stage Press makes sense.

I'm not 100% but the RCBS Rockchucker Supreme is probably where I'll end up. A Forster co-ax would be nice, but a bit pricey. As far as Lee, Dillon, and Hornady go; I don't see any obvious or immediate benefits they have over RCBS. Then again, I don't have any experience in the matter so a moot observation on my part.

Simply put, it seems that a lot of people use all different brands and have positive results.

Dies? I don't know where to start other than. .40 S&W and .243 will more than likely the two most reloaded for, with 7.62 x 54r and x39 coming in second.

I've read enough to have the impression that 4 dies sets are good for semi-auto pistols. But I am not sure about rifles.
RCBS, Forster, Lee ?

Any suggestions, on dies or presses, would be useful.

Also, Reading. Minimum reading material before starting?

[Glockster42]

The good press' are all very similar. I've used RCBS, Lyman and Lee. The Lee failed after less than a 200 rounds, broken frame, the RCBS is much tighter than the Lyman and both have well over 5K on them. Generally you pay for what you get. I've used just about everything in dies. Redding are superb as are RCBS. I would avoid Lyman dies like the plague, of the two I had (.308 & .223) the threads were so poorly cut I could not get them to screw into either one of my press'. Not overly impressed with Hornady dies considering their preimium pricing. Lee dies have been very good to me, I like the heavy duty one piece depriming pin, really good for mil-spec crimped primers. All my Lee carbide pistol dies are from the mid '80's and are still going strong.

The Hornady reloading manual is great as is the Nosler and Barnes manuals. I love Dillon progressive press' but the Hornady progressive is very nice as well. My expereince with the Lee Pro 1000 was far from positive.

[teeroux]

The Lee failed after less than a 200 rounds, broken frame,

Were you using it as a hammer?

[Eagle0711]

I've had excellant results with the RCBS Rockchucker. You want a press that is in perfect alignment so everything is in alignment. You don't want your bullets to wobble, but straight linr seating.

Some of the presses that is shaped like a C can spring when pressure is applied. Mine has been used for over 40 years and it's as good as ever. You want to keep it lubed and clean.

Dies- Hard to go wrong now days. I've had the best luck with Lee. The decapping pin will break on many others. For straight walled handgun be sure to get the carbide sizing die. you don't have to lube it, and it will polish your cases. Always clean your cases or you wll scratch the die, and it will transfer to your chamber. Good luck with 3 die sets from RCBS for handguns.

Least best was Lyman. Good Luck, and enjoy.

[Glockster42]

"Were you using it as a hammer? "

Nope cracked developed in frame after resizing 200 '06 cases. Came completely apart on the first .375 H&H case I tried to resize. Looked like a serious casting flaw, as the metal was heavily aerated. Very much like a "Aero" choclate bar.

[Bud Helms]

Moving to Handloading and Reloading.

[CPTMurdoc30]

I have had the same thing happen with a few Lee products. My brother ended up with a busted Lee press while resizing 222 cases again the casting looked like an areo chocolate bar.

I don't think either the press or the dies are more important. If your press sucks (LEE) your going to get flex and flex produces bad ammo. If your dies are junk they are going to produce ammo that just as much junk as a press. I prefer RCBS for single stage but that CO-AX is a monster of a press and the big up side you don't have to spend $5 for each caliber you load on shell holders.

[big_bad_kitty]

Can't say enough good things about the RCBS Rockcrusher single stage. Have had mine for over 35 years and I would not even try to guess at the number of rounds that have been reloaded in it! It is a substantial number though and the darn thing just keeps on working like a champ. I have tried all different brands of dies and my favorite is Lee. Personal opinion of course and everyone is going to have a preference of some kind or another. I would never hesitate to steer someone toward a Rockcrusher and Lee dies as they just work and continue to do what they were made for. If you treat them correctly you will not have any problems with them! JMHO!!

[billnourse]

I have a Rockchucker. Have never had an issue. I use RCBS dies and they have served me well.

Bill

[dlb435]

Any of the RCBS single stage presses are good. You only need the Rock Chucker (RC) press if you are going to be forming your own brass. The smaller presses like the Reloader Special, Junior or Partner presses do fine for reloading only. The RC press has better mechanical advantage and a stronger frame for really heavy duty work. Most folks will never need this.
For that matter, Lyman, Foster, C-H, Lee and Hornady all make fine single stage presses. Just be sure to get one that is steel or cast iron.
As far as dies go, I like Dillon, RCBS and Lyman. Lee dies work fine too. Be sure that your shell holder is the same brand as your dies. Some times it makes a differance.
2, 3 and 4 die sets:
2 die stes are for rifles only.
3 die rifle sets include a crimping die, you only need this if you are relaoding for an autoloader.
3 die pistol sets both seat and crimp with the same die.
4 die sets use a seperate crimping die, this can be a little easier to use but you have to do an extra step.
A note on Dillon dies: These dies are made for progressive presses and the neck expander is not included in the die set.

[wncchester]

" As far as Lee, Dillon, and Hornady go; I don't see any obvious or immediate benefits they have over RCBS....Simply put, it seems that a lot of people use all different brands and have positive results."

Yeah, that's true. It isn't very satisfying to hear that there is precious little difference in what can be done well on any press (and nearly any dies)
but it's true. People who tell you, in various ways, "I had this go bad so stay away from it, but that has worked well so get it" aren't as much help as they suppose, individual defective things sometimes get out any maker's doors but they all make them good. And a LOT of such failures occur due to the operator: I've seen photo's of RCBS Rock Chuckers top strap broken, seems the owners had no idea of how much pressure they were putting on the lever!

Those who say Lee's alum alloy presses "spring" under pressure are guessing, they haven't actually measured press spring. I have, and I've proven that Lee's alloy presses are actually less springy than my Rock Chucker because the alum alloy is more rigid than cast steel. NOT that they alum is stronger than cast iron, that would be silly, but within it's strength limits it is more rigid and that IS a help in making precision reloads.

All sizer dies are made internally to the same SAAMI tolerances and that's range, anything inside that range is fully in tolerance. Those who tout one brand above others as made to "tighter tolerances" couldn't begin to tell you if that means they hold closer to the max or minimum side of the range! Actually, since they all stay inside the acceptable range, there is as much average difference between dies of the same brand as there is between brands. And I've had a lot of experience with different presses and dies for a very long time so I'm not guessing.

My suggestion to any noob is to get a Lee Classic Cast (iron) press and Lee dies. After a few years, if you really want to branch out, you will have the personal experience to make the right choice for yourself rather than simply duplicating my tools, which may very well not be quite what you will need. And no matter what (or if) you get another press or dies you will still have valid needs for your old stuff so it won't be a waste.

The Lee, Lyman and Hornady loading manuals have excellant beginner instructions, they are well illustrated and also have very good loading data.

Good luck!

[Unclenick]

Agree that there's not a heap of difference. Lee's presses in general are less expensive, so I suppose the chance of having to send one back under warranty is probably a bit greater than for the other brands, but I know a guy who broke two Rockchucker frames, so it can happen to anybody. Like Dillon, much of what you pay RCBS for in their presses is the lifetime warranty. Lee's is only 2 years.

Despite the warranty difference, I think Lee's Classic Cast deserves serious consideration. It's iron rather than aluminum. Mine is absolutely perfectly lined up and very beefy and very tight; no obvious play at all. It has adjustable handle position so you can have shorter stroke with less leverage and vice-versa. You can have the handle position start at whatever angle suits you and on whichever side of the press that suits you. It uses their Breech Lock die quick-change system that competes with the Hornady Lock-N-Load system. It's got the option to use Lee's primer feeder to get out of handling each primer separately. It's a very well thought out tool, and many feel it's newer design makes is superior to older O-frame press designs, regardless of price. Check the reviews on Midway. Not many yet because the Breech Lock version is new, but all five stars at this point.

[Jim243]

Never tried the cast alluminum presses always used the steel presses, while heavier also stronger. Have had my Lee Classic Turret press 7 years now no problems and a RCBS Rockchucker (purchased used) for 5 years now.

Pistol dies come in 3 and 4 die sets. The 4 die sets have a carbide resizer so I would always get the 4 die sets. Rifle dies only come in 2 or 3 die sets and are almost always steel not carbide. Lee actually makes a very good die set, some people are die snobs and want to spend more money (that's them not me). Some presses require you to only use their dies because of length, but most if not all presses use the same size opening and you can swap one mfg dies in another's press.

You will find that some speciality dies are made by only one or two manufacturers and are stuck purchasing their die. I use only Lee die sets, but have purchased the RCBS X-Small Base resizing die for my 223s for my AR.

I hope this helps.
Jim

[jmortimer]

The highest rated single stage press on Midway USA is the Lee Precision Classic Cast and new version Classic Cast Breech Lock regardless of price. The Lee Precision Classic Turret, my favorite, is the highest rated turret press regardless of price. These presses from Lee Precision are built like tanks. Facts are hard things for people who over spend for less quality.

[Brian Pfleuger]

The user is more important than the press or the dies.

I guarantee you that someone with no propensity to follow instructions or learn could not produce good ammo on the exact same press used by world champion 1000 yard shooter/loader.

[dlb435]

I guarantee you that someone with no propensity to follow instructions or learn could not produce good ammo on the exact same press used by world champion 1000 yard shooter/loader.

Good point. If you're just starting out, reading the manals and a good reloading book will get you along farther than the best press money can buy. So many new reloaders want to skip the study and go straight to the ammo. The fastest way to get started is to do your homework first and your ammo second.

[bbqncigars]

I personally would buy a Co-Ax again, if faced with a first purchase. Yes, it's expensive, but it's worth it IMO. It has the most leverage of all my presses (except the Walnut Hill in swaging mode). It is the original 'quick change' die press. The auto shellholder is a thing of beauty. The spent primer handling system reduces grunge to a minimum. The downsides are that the die needs to have a compatible locking ring, and the press priming setup is cumbersome. FWIW, I find most press mounted priming systems slow and a PITA. BTW, on the Lee Classic, the handle can be mounted in almost any position, but it does NOT change the leverage.


Wayne

[Clark]

peetzakilla

The user is more important than the press or the dies.

I would bet that I can get better groups with two rocks, a nail, bullets, powder, and primer, than I could with $10k worth of reloading gear 10 years ago.

How would I do it?
I have learned the secret to great groups... only go to the range when there is no wind.

And the cheapest dies with the expander ball removed with beat the most expensive dies by a mile... or by two miles.



But seriously folks, I could do it all with a rockchucker, but I do not use my Rockchucker any more, because I have a co-ax.
That is like saying I don't drive my Chevy to work since I got my Cadillac.

[wncchester]

peetzakilla: - "The user is more important than the press or the dies."

That's true too. Those who live by the (false) phlosophy of "ya git what ya pay for" automatically assume anything more costly is superiour to anything less costly. (People who over charge benefit from that simplistic mind set but the buyers are happy and their ego is fed, so who cares? )

Nice thing about Lee's presses is they are bored/machined on modern CNC tooling so the surfaces and holes are pretty much dead on. That's NOT true of some more costly, "better" (?) presses!

I don't think the precision of any reloading equipment has materially changed in the last ten years.

[Stick_man]

Over the past 35 years, I have used Lee, RCBS, Pacific, and Baer presses to reload well over 75,000 rounds. Each press has it's specialty, but my favorite is the Lee Classic Turret. My first Lee Turret press was responsible for reloading over 40,000 rounds of .38 special and .223 Rem before it grew feet and walked out of the shop one evening (along with some of it's buddies). It was promptly replaced with another as soon as I had a talk with my security fixtures.

The Turret press is not designed for large rifle cartridges, so I use an old Baer single stage for those. Never cared much for the RCBS so I got rid of it a few years ago. The Pacific press now serves as a dedicated sizer with the Lee push-thru sizer dies.

Only time I ever broke any component of reloading equipment (other than decap pins) was when I tried resizing some '06 brass on my Lee Turret. I guess I didn't have enough case lube on it and the case got stuck something fierce and I was young enough to not realize how much leverage you could really get on the handles. I ended up breaking the handle (made out of pot metal or cast aluminum) with the extra applied stress. Lee did, however, replace that handle without question and free of charge. I had even told them that my father had purchased the press originally about 15 years prior to that time.

Have never had any problems with any of the dies as long as they were being used according to manufacturer's recommendations. I have mostly RCBS dies but have a few made by Hornady and Lee. All work exactly as intended.

[wncchester]

Stick, Lee's Classic Turret press is all cast iron and steel and it's only been out about 6-8 years. It's big enough and strong enough to easily load any sporting cartridge made.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by wncchester

That's true too. Those who live by the (false) phlosophy of "ya git what ya pay for" automatically assume anything more costly is superiour to anything less costly.

I know this guy who feels that way about digital scales....

[Slamfire]

I used a Rock Chucker for 20 years, sold it, then got a Lyman T- Mag. Now using a Redding T-7 for rifle calibers.

A good press is a lifetime investment. A good press makes sizing a lot easier.

Dies, I have been very happy with cheap Lee Dies for pistol calibers. Lee does not make small base dies for rifles so I have to spend more money on other brands.

[cheezhed]

I have an old rockchucker and like it a lot. Year and a half ago bought a classic turret press and like it too. After Christmas I got a new classic single stage and it seems to be the equal to the rockchucker but time will tell as it seems a little tighter than my 33 plus year old rcbs press. If I were starting new today I would get the lee single stage cast iron classic first and then a classic turret after that but rcbs and many others make great presses and the difference in price will disappear after ten or so years. As for dies all companies make acceptable dies.

[Stick_man]

Stick, Lee's Classic Turret press is all cast iron and steel and it's only been out about 6-8 years. It's big enough and strong enough to easily load any sporting cartridge made.

The Turret press that I broke the handle on was not the newer "Classic Turret Press", but was one of the older Turret Presses that were made somewhere around 35 yrs ago now. I don't know exactly when my father purchased it, but it was before I started reloading and I have been reloading for 35 years now. It was truly a "Classic" Turret press. Worked great with pistol cartridges and even the smallish rifle cartridges.