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Old January 4, 2015, 03:20 AM   #1
Model12Win
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Pedersoli Hawken?

Well hello everyone, I've been wanting a Hawken rifle or "plains rifle" for some time now, and I've been looking at the options. I found out that Pedersoli made a Hawken, actually several, and this maple-stocked Rocky Mountain Hawken is what I'd be purchasing also in .54 caliber for shooting roundball, this gun will be used for target shooting/plinking and hunting deers. I am set on the .54 so don't try and talk me out of it.

Here is the gun on Pedersoli's site:

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sche...ken-maple.html

And here it is for sale on Cabela's site:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Peder...fle/706019.uts

What do you guys think/know about the Pedersoli Hawkens? I am going for high authenticity and historical accuracy but my budget certainly needs to stay below $1000... I know there are some custom made options that aren't terribly more expensive, but it's all I can afford at this time. Is this a good rendition of the classic 19th century Hawken rifle?

I am quite drawn to the fact that this model comes with a pretty maple stock and also has a browned barrel and color case hardened lockwork etc. These are very beautiful to me and if I am correct (correct me if I'm wrong) they are historically accurate. I am wondering one thing though, I've heard that maple is not as strong as walnut. Do you think I will have a problem with cracks in the stock if I go for this maple one? I really would prefer it but for looks only, I am willing to get the walnut model if I must.

So in closing, I'd like to see what you all know about these guns and if they are a faithful representation of this style of rifle, and would also love to know if you are aware of any quality problems with gun, and if they are good for the money etc.

Thanks so much everyone!
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Old January 4, 2015, 06:49 AM   #2
Hawg
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Yep, that's a pretty good representation of what a real Hawken looked like. That one has late model Gemmer sights but they are nice sights. The .54 has a true round ball twist and I think you'll be very happy with it. Can't tell if it has a true Hawken tang or slanted breech but its a very good rendition. Here's a marginally better pic of mine. It was hand made off blueprints including most of the iron furniture.



Hawken tang.



Slanted breech.




Don't have a good pic but the barrel keys are slotted and pinned so they don't come all the way out, just far enough to remove the barrel. Mine doesn't have an entry pipe and many originals didn't either.

Last edited by Hawg; January 4, 2015 at 07:14 AM.
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Old January 4, 2015, 10:05 AM   #3
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Imo the rifle is of a late styling , not only in the later sights but also the shaping of the lock mortises . cheek piece is also off in its shape as is the style of the hooked breech . As I recall , they also have a strait barrel vs. tapered and a browned barrel . Which maybe an issue for you depending on which historian you want to believe
But if its supposed to be a later piece then ,,,,and frankly one could basically pick apart any rifle made by most any maker .



As to problems . From what I have read Pedersoli has had some issues with quality of barrels . Nothing safety wise . More in the quality of rifling and bore.
Personably I have only had 2 of their hawkens rifles come in . one was for a missing trigger adjustment screw and the other was for a new tumbler .
My biggest issue with Pedersoli is that Imo the quality isn’t what it once was and their parts have gotten way to costly .


As to maple vs. walnut .that’s one of those ; depends questions .
Let me start by saying figure in the wood means nothing in that a plain jane piece of wood can be of far greater quality then one with alot of figure .

.Past that it depends on the design of the gun the stock is being made for as well as on the maple or walnut being compared. IE are we talking comparing say silver leaf maple to English walnut or are we talking comparing Red, Big leaf , Sugar maple........ to Black , English ,Corsican, Turkish....... or Clario walnuts ??????
Factually in consideration , that’s only a few . On top of that , a plank can be below or above the average standards depending on the individual tree and from where in that try the plank was cut .
There are plus’s and negatives to both woods but for the most part Maple is a lot harder wood . Walnut softer and more open poured . Its also for the most part Generally more lighter then maple .
As to if you have problems with the stock splitting .
Both woods are wonderful stock woods and capable of absorbing a lot of punishment IF they are laid out and inlet correctly ,if one doesn’t then Imo both are just as likely to have an issue .
In recent years , Gun makers have went more to middle ground walnut . IMO ,mostly because its easier to mill its lighter and more tolerant of sloppy tolerances while at the same time still meeting the acceptable standards of stability

HOWEVER , keep in mind you have the question as to historical accuracy to consider . In doing so your not just looking at the lines of the rifle , parts that were used , finish … but your also looking at the wood used .

Last edited by Captchee; January 4, 2015 at 10:12 AM.
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Old January 4, 2015, 10:25 AM   #4
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Listen to Captchee he knows a lot more about them that I do.
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Old January 4, 2015, 11:19 AM   #5
mehavey
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Quote:
What do you guys think/know about the Pedersoli Hawkens?
I have the Missouri Rvr 1-47 Twist 45. It is a gorgeous rifle
with absolutely superb metal workmanship/fitting and finish.

Oh... and it's accurate too

Last edited by mehavey; January 4, 2015 at 11:42 AM.
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Old January 4, 2015, 11:21 AM   #6
Captchee
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dont know as i would go that far Hawg . im not exspert on the hawkens made rifles eather . seem to be forgetting more and get more and more confused every day with just about everything
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Old January 4, 2015, 11:54 AM   #7
Hawg
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Quote:
seem to be forgetting more and get more and more confused every day with just about everything
I know the feeling but you've probably forgotten more about period rifles than I will ever know.
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Old January 4, 2015, 04:34 PM   #8
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Thanks guys, very informative!

I know about the Lyman Great Plains Rifle, they get good reviews for the money, but are they as historically correct as the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken (or more so)?

I have heard that the Pedersoli seems modeled after a late production Hawken, about what year would that be?
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Old January 4, 2015, 04:53 PM   #9
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pedersoli hawken is nice but i dont think its worth the price they ask IMO. The sights are junk and unusable for my eyes so thats more $$ down the road. Handle one first and see for yourself.
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Old January 4, 2015, 06:17 PM   #10
Hawg
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The Lyman is a lot closer to a real Hawken than a TC or CVA etc. but the Pedersoli is closer. Gemmer took over the Hawken shop in the early 1860's so the Pedersoli would be a post 1860 rendition.
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Old January 4, 2015, 08:26 PM   #11
Model12Win
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Thanks! I didn't know the Pedersoli sights are unusable... are they really that bad?
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Old January 4, 2015, 08:47 PM   #12
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They're nice sights but they are seven inches closer to your face than a standard dovetail sight. If you have fading eyesight they're pretty useless. I have a full buckhorn on mine. I use it as a ghost ring.
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Old January 4, 2015, 09:22 PM   #13
FrontierGander
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im 30 and I couldnt even make out the sights, especially the front, they were that bad.
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Old January 4, 2015, 09:36 PM   #14
Model12Win
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Aww...

That's not cool. Should I spring for the Lyman GPR? Is it a close representation of the Hawken? I was hoping the Pedersoli was a good one, but I want it to shoot.
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Old January 4, 2015, 09:46 PM   #15
mehavey
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While I eventually stuck an MVA tang sight on it...

Sorry guys, the stock sights are just as good as any open sights on any other rifles I've encountered.






NOTE: I have two GPRs (flint and percussion) and another three TC Hawkens (flint & percussion as well).
They are fine rifles... greatest functional value to be had.

The Pedersoli ? The finest finishing and attention to detail of all of them.

Last edited by mehavey; January 4, 2015 at 11:34 PM.
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Old January 4, 2015, 11:10 PM   #16
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actually if you want to save yourself a LOT of cash, get the GPR I know someone that owns one and he said it may look prettier but it doesnt shoot any better than the GPR and he to said the sights on the pedersoli suck.
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Old January 5, 2015, 12:33 AM   #17
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Thanks Mehavey, so your Pedersoli shot with the stock Gemmer sights?

Are they as bad as people say? Is there any easy way to change them out, or at least the rear sight?

I'm really digging the Pedersoli, and would like to have it if it's a good shooter, or if I can make it one with a sight change.
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Old January 5, 2015, 05:13 AM   #18
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Its a dovetail sight so would be easy to change out. I don't know what size the dovetail is tho.
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Old January 5, 2015, 07:27 AM   #19
mehavey
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Brutally honest here: the Lyman GPR is the best "Hawken-style" value for the money anywhere on the production market these days.

The Pedersoli buys you that, plus absolutely unmatched [production] quality workmanship -- but at another $400. That's the trade.

Trackofthewolf.com has just about everything that you could change out, trade up, refit and/or add to fit your needs on either rifle.
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Old January 5, 2015, 08:25 AM   #20
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I would agree with mehavey about the GPR . Personally I don’t think the Pedersoli workmanship is any better . Frankly the GPR , IMO is nothing more then a Pedersoli , imported and sold by Lyman and for the price they ask , you would be better IMO with a semi custom
As to being more or less correct , they are both about the same. Yes they are better representations of a True hawkens made gun . But that could also be do to the TC and investment arms being closer to a Tryon trade gun design then what hawkens was building .
My recommendation would be to either save your money and have the gun you want built or bight the bullet and call a GPR good .
Frankly unless your going to a AMM function no ones really going to care
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Old January 5, 2015, 08:46 AM   #21
mehavey
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MODEL12WIN... where are you located, and/or do you have the means to visit a Cabelas/look at both rifles ?
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Old January 5, 2015, 07:05 PM   #22
Model12Win
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Mehavey, yes I am located a couple hours away from a Cabela's. Next time I'm in there I'll def pop in and see what they've got!

My concern about the Lyman GPR is that it isn't historically accurate enough in terms of design and finish. I know the Pedersoli has the browned barrel, color case hardened parts, and the maple stock all which I like and see historically accurate. I'm willing to tinker and modify the gun if need be to some extent if the Gemmer sights don't do well with my eyes.

I just have a lot of anxiety about getting a GPR... I am a huge history buff and when I shoot black powder, I want to be as authentic as I can but of course still have to mind my finances so can't spend a dime over $1000 for the gun.
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Old January 5, 2015, 07:28 PM   #23
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original hawkens had blued barrels that were browned from rust over time is what the hawken shop told me.

You wont get 100% accurate with either rifle PERIOD. The only way to get 100% accurate is custom made.
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Old January 5, 2015, 11:25 PM   #24
Model12Win
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Oh!

Well... I guess... I'm still really confused.

I love me some Pedersoli... but am unsure if the Lyman GPR is the better gun. Really I am wanting whichever one is the best and most authentic, price is not an issue between the two now.
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Old January 6, 2015, 05:26 AM   #25
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As for case hardened parts on an original, I'm no expert but I don't think so. Originals were rust blued.
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