Catastrophic Failure of Rifle Due To Double Charge of Blue Dot

[SL1]

Seating a bullet right after charging a case has the potential of creating a no-powder squib load if you get distracted.

I prefer to load in batches, where I charge a complete group of cases, put the powder away, put away any empty cases, THEN inspect all the cases with a strong light or a dowel to see that they are ALL charged and the NONE have significantly more or less powder in them. Then I get out ONLY the bullets that I want to load and seat the bullets in that group of cases.

I mention the dowel because some posts have had comments about not being able to see well enough into bottleneck cases. A dowel that fits easily inside the case neck with a mark on it where it should stop at the case mouth when the charge is correct will help detect a significantly off-weight charge.

SL1

[Dannyl]

HI,

First, you must thank your guardian angel, you owe him (her?) big time!

For all of us, one of my considerations when choosing a powder, is to use one that will overflow out of the case if I ever put a double charge.

Since all of us are prone to err one day, I feel that this gives me a better chance to spot it in time.

Brgds,
Danny

[F. Guffey]

"For quite some time I have been shooting reduced recoil loads that I have loaded using Blue Dot powder in"

I do not know if the damage was caused by a double load of what ever or a steady diet of sudden shock on a rifle that was designed to absorb shock produced by slow burning powder, or I do not believe the damage was cause by the last cartridge, I believe it was caused by the ammo fired before the last one.

F. Guffey

[Uncle Billy]

Quote: "Seating a bullet right after charging a case has the potential of creating a no-powder squib load if you get distracted."

If I've charged a case and then anything happens that breaks my concentration before I get to seat the bullet, I'll just dump the charge back into the measure. A case with powder in it either gets a bullet right away, or gets emptied of powder right away, there are no other options- it doesn't get set down on the bench or put into a loading block, it either goes back with the empties having been emptied, or gets a bullet seated and is put with the loaded cartridges. Short of dying on the spot, I intend that nothing intrude on that moment to divide the tasks. My theory is that there ought to be a minimum amount of time during which cases are charged but without bullets.

I guess the central idea is the same- take extraordinary effort and concentration so as to be sure of what gets done, and it doesn't start with charging cases, it starts much earlier in the checklist, as we all know.

[Double Naught Spy]

I think that with a little work, that scope can be salvaged along with the sling screws and such.

Glad you are okay. Wowee-wow-wow

[SL1]

Uncle Billy,

I think we agree that working out a procedure that minimizes errors is the key.

It is just that, for me, distractions can be completely internal. It is really monotonous charging a case and seating a bullet, charging a case and seating a bullet, charging a case and seating...(repeat a few hundred times). So, eventually, my mind strays for an instant. I usually snap-back and ask myself if I actually REMEMBER whether I really put powder in that last case or if I just picked up a bullet and seated it. I have sometimes pulled a bullet just to be SURE.

Maybe I just have a case of to many things on my mind and not enough mind. But, I think that isn't uncommon. For me, at least, it is much easier to maintain focus when I am doing only one step at a time. So, I made powder charging one step and charge checking a separate step.

Whatever works well for YOU is your best method.

SL1

[dipper]

Seating a bullet right after charging a case has the potential of creating a no-powder squib load if you get distracted.

Only if you are blind, mentally handicapped,hallucinating, or there is some kind of magic afoot!!

The case gets charged and never leaves my hand and the bullet gets seated....I don't see the room for error.

I think we agree that working out a procedure that minimizes errors is the key.

I think seating a bullet immediately after charging IS a procedure that minimizes error....if someone has a attention span of less than 5 seconds, they shouldn't be reloading in the first place.

[Uncle Billy]

SL1-
I agree 100%, working out a procedure that minimizes errors is the first order of business, and that's an individual process.

What you wrote is true: like so much to do with guns and shooting, knowing one's mental makeup and how to manage it has everything to do with how safe and successful engaging with firearms is. What works well for one of us isn't necessarily what would work for another whose awareness is built differently, whose concentration has a different nature. There is no "better or worse", there is only "what succeeds and what doesn't" in establishing a methodology that keeps it all safe, a self-discipline that's responsible and balanced. Effective self discipline is mandatory, and different for everyone.

Uncle Billy

[F. Guffey]

Reloading without a plan results in making excuses and guesses, I believe the rifle failure is the results of sudden shock, that being the case it was going to happen, when it happens ever one is pointing off in another direction blaming powder, methods, mistakes etc.. I believe reduced loads are cute AND NO one can explain why failure does not happen ever time but believe shooting 25 rounds proves it is not going to happen the next time the round is fired.

Having passed up every opportunity, start over, I would not continue to shoot the rifles that have been shot frequently for a long time with reduced loads but I would suggest; start reloading with a plan, If a reloader does not know the weight of his brass, primer, bullet and powder, he is reloading without a plan and has no way to determine if sudden shock or a double charge rendered his rifle scrap.

Match brass to weight, add the weight of the powder charge, bullet and primer then total, after reloading is finished compare the total weight of a round with the individual component weight, a no powder round will equal case, bullet and primer weight, a double charge will equal case, bullet, primer and 2X the powder weight. The electronic scale shines when this technique is used.

F. Guffey

[Uncle Billy]

My procedure of "tare"ing the digital scale with the primed case, then charging it and reweighing it - the scale reading then is the weight of powder in it- shows that there is some variance between the empty weight of cases. The weights of the bullet and the powder are most important; the weight of powder seems to me to be the primary concern. This "tareing" procedure seems to me to be the best way (but surely not the quickest way) to know what's in the cartridge because you have direct knowledge of the charge in the cartridge. Seating a bullet immediately thereafter seals the deal, case closed (pun intended).

[CJ7365]

Uncle

That is exactly how I check my charges, I do this on the first 3 then about every 10th one, gives me that warm and fuzzy that the powder charges are correct. A little time consuming, but I am sure a hospital visit or worse a funeral would take longer

[Sabot]

I have a Hornady 5 station press which makes it easy to miss a charge or double charge if not paying attention. I would always double check the powder charge by looking into the case or using a dowel, then Hornady came out with something called a "powder cop", it screws in like a die and sits between the powder charge station and the seating die, and has rod that moves up and down with a marker on it showing you if you have the appropriate charge.

[OkieCruffler]

I've shot thousands of blue dot loads in several different cartridges (the .223 really loves it) and I've seen a couple of rifles destroyed by possible double charges. There are several ways to insure you don't have a double charge that will work, but you have to be consistant everytime or nothing works. I love my BD loads, but I don't trust them fully. No one shoots them but me.

[Mike Irwin]

Agree with you 100% dipper.

Loading such cartridges one at a time - size, reprime, measure powder, charge case, seat bullet - move to next cartridge is about as fool proof as you can ever hope to get when loading ammunition.

Let's face it, ANYTHING can happen when loading if you become distracted. That's why you minimize distractions.

I turn the phone off in my loading room when I'm reloading, and I keep my dog out of there, as well.

If I AM called away for some reason, any powder that is out of the measure and not in a complete loaded round gets poured back into the measure before I deal with the distraction.

The ONLY problem I have ever had in over 30 years of reloading was double charging a .45 ACP with 9.8 grains of 231, and that's because I was loading using a new press. It was a built in distraction, I was using a loading block for the first time in years, and I simply missed the fact that there was a double charge in the case.

That was a huge wake up call, and it also led me to abandon that new press (a Lyman T Mag) for loading handgun ammo and go to a Lee Classic Turret, where the liklihood of something like that is great reduced.

[Suicide*Ride]

I think that with a little work, that scope can be salvaged

Sure thing, if all you're gonna do is burn some ants!

[HiBC]

I will add another vote of respect for you offering your experience to us.
I will also offer another "Glad you are OK."

My 2 cents

If we had a barrel with no bore,only a chamber,it would not be a rifle,it would be a bomb.The pressure needs a place to go.

As we go with larger cases and smaller bores,expansion ratio diminishes.That is,when the bullet moves an inch down the barrel,the combustion chamber volume is not increased by a great percentage,yet the pressure will increase rapidly.
With this in mind,realize that cartridges like a 7mmSTW,7 RUM,257 WBY,are not flexible and forgiving.They are not the best testbeds for experimentation,as things happen suddenly with a large case with a relatively small bore.

Powders are designed to function within certain pressure ranges.Some,like Varget,are flexible enough to function through a broad spectrum of pressures,but many powders perform poorly outside their range of design pressure.296/H-110 is 1 example.Heavy magnum handgun loads.
Outside of the design pressure,burning rates change.Typically,at higher pressures,burning rates accelerate.At some point,just as a gasoline engine might create destructive "ping",the progressive burn becomes detonation.

Blue dot,intended for shotguns and handguns,might have a designed performance range in the 9000psi to 38,000 psi range (pure guess,thinking of a shotgun or 38 super pressure).Who knows how it burns a 50,000.That sort of pressure can be achieved with a low velocity reading as the pressure curve is quick,at the breech.
I think,purely from recall,I could be wrong,Blue dot is a double base powder with a fairly high nitro content.I don't know how important that is.

Another thing about pressure.It is good when it stays inside the seal the brass case provides.If the case fails,the pressure is relesed,and it then finds more square inches to push on,places not designed to withstand pressure.
Belted magnum cases have a problem.
They headspace on the belt,with a fairly large headspace spec from the original safari dangerous game application.Reloading was not an issue,chambering reliably was.Design intent then causes dies to set the shoulder back on these cases,to redirect headspace control to the belt.
This leads to the stretch ring at the case head,creating thin,brittle brass at the worst location.An RCBS precision mic will help set up dies to minimize case shortening(try .002 in bolt guns) using the shoulder to headspace.Also,the bent paperclip trick to check for that ring inside the case should be part of your routine.Scrap the brass if it has a stretch ring.
Case failure is a bad thing.

Any wreck where nobody gets hurt bad is a really good wreck,lets just learn all we can.

[FM12]

I am amazed you are not really injured. On a tangent, if you're an NRA member, and I hope you are, you have insurance on your rig up to $1000, I believe. Contact them and see if your covered. Might be the only bright spot in this accident.

[csmsss]

Congrats on getting through what could have been a deadly event more or less unscathed. No lectures from me on this, but...the thought has occurred to me that more people get themselves into trouble when working up super-light loads than heavy loads.

[FM-793]

One thing I do when reloading is check each finished load on the digital scales to make sure I didn't double load, this also works if you missed a primer.

Oh, you'll know when you miss a primer - this will only happen when you load the finest-grain, bounciest powder in your inventory.

I haven't found weighing finished rounds to be very useful, especially if you're using brass that's been trimmed; I find that there are just too many variables and my fear is that it may give you a false sense of security. If anything, I think visual inspection, using a dowel or weighing charges are much better "safety checks".

[Tomas204]

AllI can say Is WOW and you are very lucky ,I use a single stage RCBS ,I will keep it that way ,I will charge my loads put a Bullet crimp safe and Happpy ,I will stck with a single stage Glad you did not get hurt it could have been really really bad

[Saguaro Firearms]

i give you much credit for posting this, i loaded ammo once under distraction and also destroyed a rifle, not quite as bad as yours but destroyed none the less, and know how you feel, and i give you credit for posting your story, glad your okay, and i wouldn't worry about the barrel, worth more as a story than a barrel.

[williamd]

Even with a progressive I check powder load. With that damage I would have suspected detonation for a too light a load. Have seen what a squib load can do to a rifle. In this case the owner said it was a load he'd used for awhile. The powder distribution in the case can be a factor. Light loads can be very surprising. Hey, knock on wood .. or something. Maybe skip the range and go to church Sunday!

[Whitworth]

Reloading is a constant vigilance.

I saw a shooters' revolver blow up, live, and two benches at the range between us. You really remember vigilance after that.

My special tool is a small flashlight.

After loading the powder in the cartridges, still in the blocks, and not loaded with a bullet, I take the flashlight.

I check the relative loading cartridge by cartridge, with the flashlight. They are either all loaded correctly or none are loaded correctly. If it were the latter, it would be time to retire.

A little check of the powder loaded cartridges with the flashlight, seems a good idea I came up with years ago.

[temmi]

Do you weigh every charge?