Smith Model 52 .38 special defense loads?

[HighValleyRanch]

I know, the Smith and wesson model 52, one of the finest autos created specifically for Bullseye centerfire matches and only holds 5 rounds.

I did find some rather old material that talked about modifying the mags to hold 7 6 or 7 rounds. I think dremel the mag button slot. But at the cost of these mags, who's going to do that???

But fasinated by this ammo by Federal, the Micro .38 special +P HST 130 grain round. Wondering if this would feed in the Smith 52 as it is loaded like a wadcutter cartridge with the bullet flush?

Probably would have to find a heavier recoil spring to use, but as the 52 is the same basis as the 39, and 952, it seems like the frame should be strong enough?

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/fede...load-38-spl-p/

[Jim Watson]

Pictures I found show that the Micro bullet is not seated flush and will probably be too long for the M52.

It is built for the Mid-range wadcutter seated completely flush.
Once upon a time there was a full power wadcutter, the 148 grain bullet at 850 fps instead of 750. Easily handloaded but I don't know where to buy any now.

Maj. George C. Nonte said that if it were your only pistol available for defense, you could either shoot the full power wadcutter or use shortened cases to hold a hollowpoint at magazine OAL.

A friend is a PPC Master and has his M52 magazines cut to hold 6. He said he paid Clark $20 to do one and copied the modification on his others.

M52 recoil spring is 8 lbs, M39 is 14 lbs, about anything in between is available for "tuning."

[HighValleyRanch]

Thanks Jim,
I handload, so could easily make something for SD like that.
Wow, the mags for this baby are going for 165.00 on the big auction! Yikes.

[Sevens]

I very much love the Model 52 and discussion of the 52 on these pages is scarce, so any 52 talk is... well, interesting. But I'll be honest, this particular discussion approaches "ludicrous" in my opinion. Here's how I have to come to that conclusion.

-ANY- handgun, if need be, "could" be placed in the role of defense in an emergency, that goes without saying. A S&W Model 52 would be an obscene distance down from the top of such a list. It is large, long, heavy, it has a hair trigger, many are notoriously finicky with feeding & extraction, it has large and extremely sharp-edged sights and it is a valuable collectible handgun.

The magazine does indeed hold only five and in days gone by when mags were less scarce, some did modify them -- a proper modification was to continue the follower guide cuts but only for a short stretch, then alter the angle to keep the follower from hanging up. These days, magazines are too scarce and valuable to modify.

Lastly...
A soft swaged lead hollow base 148 grain wadcutter at 730fps would likely do pretty horrendous damage at close range in non-armored human flesh, it makes precious little sense to attempt to run this pistol so completely far out of the scope of it's design for such an ill-advised task, it seems comical to discuss it.

I'd have to think that there were very few occurrences in all of history where someone owned a Model 52 and it was their only handgun. I just can't see any (logical) situation where a 52 is a better choice for this job than almost every other handgun.

A viable topic? Let's put our heads together and list all the handguns that would genuinely be a WORSE choice to place in a defensive role than a Model 52 with non-spec magazines, non-spec recoil spring and oddball ammo for which it was never designed.

[Sevens]

Sorry, that's my level-headed reaction. As for the "forget level headed, is it possible?" then I would say there is not much about a 52 that is fragile... perhaps the barrel bushing and the extractor. Maybe the ejector. I do believe the pistol itself is "tough enough" to be pushed.

If you go that route, PLEASE don't attempt it with HBWC bullets. It's a known phenomenon that a HBWC will blow the core out if you try to run them hot. The lead ring left in the barrel and a subsequent shot will wreck the 52 barrel and maybe the bushing also.

[DaleA]

Wow, the mags for this baby are going for 165.00 on the big auction! Yikes.

Yikes indeed!!!

Maybe some form of 3D printing will someday allow you to 'scan' then 'print' items like this for just outrageous prices instead of hokey-smoke-bat-crazy prices...seems too much like the Star Trek 'replicators' for me to take seriously right now though.

[HighValleyRanch]

Here's a neat video of Federal Match wadcutter ammo in super slow going through gel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6-IOblOVbs

[Sharkbite]

If you only have a 52 and cant afford a different pistol to use for SD/HD....I will trade you the Glock of your choice for your 52.

Seriously, its completely the WRONG choice for any SD OR HD scenario.

[dgludwig]

Seriously, its completely the WRONG choice for any SD OR HD scenario.

True, the Model 52 belongs on the line at Camp Perry, not fending off some gangbanger at the local 7-11-though it might be a better choice in a self-defense role than some pistols made to ward off mice.

[natman]

This is like saying "I have a boat oar. Could I use it as a baseball bat?"

Maybe, but you would be far better off just buying a baseball bat.

[RickB]

Loading hollow-based wadcutters, backwards, was a somewhat popular endeavor 40 years ago for defense loads in snubby revolvers.

[rock185]

HVR, In spite at the revulsion many feel about using the Model 52 for anything other than punching polite holes in paper, I suspect it is robust enough to handle the load you mention. While a stronger recoil spring might be in order, the OAL of that load might prevent it's use.

BTW, I once encountered an older gentleman at the range who was definitely thinking outside the wadcutter box. He was shooting 38 Super in his Model 52. I spoke with him about it. The Model 52 appeared completely stock, though it certainly could have had a heavier recoil spring. Seemed to work just fine. He was right next to me, and I didn't see any malfunctions. I hope it doesn't give anyone the vapors, but if I were in possession of a 52, I'd have to try some of this stuff. Just in the interest of science of course

[Sevens]

Trust me, these things are on my "wanna try" list also, but I will have to own a beater 52 before I will actually try them. I'm currently down to just two Model 52 and neither qualifies.

FWIW, just a day ago I attempted to hand-jack a round of factory .38 Smith & Wesson (LRN) and it fed nicely from the magazine and chambered properly as well.

[HighValleyRanch]

Thanks guys.
My trusty Smith 52 was my centerfire gun for my bullseye competitive years, but since having mostly retired from that era, it's just been sitting in the safe. I occassionally take it to the range and shoot a little steel with it.

Just trying to think outside the box a little so I can continue to enjoy it.
I have plenty of other guns for SD.
It's just that it feels so good in the hands!
I might have to get a box just to see if it feeds.

[Model12Win]

Wouldn't be a bad little defender. Those .38 wad cutters leave a nasty cookie cutter wound. Only 5 shots but that's enough if you can shoot.

[HighValleyRanch]

I only get five shots in my LCR's so had come to accept that!LOL

[Jim Watson]

I attempted to hand-jack a round of factory .38 Smith & Wesson (LRN) and it fed nicely from the magazine and chambered properly as well.

In my younger years I once cited the specs that say a .38 Special should not accept a .38 S&W. The dealer whipped out a Chief and a ".38 Regular" cartridge as some of the old timers said, and it went right in.
I have tried it here and there; sometimes it will and sometimes it won't.

[reddog81]

I agree with Sevens. You might be able to get it to work with some tweeking of the mag and recoil springs but surely a +P round will beat up the gun more than it was designed.

If the time comes and you need to use the model 52 for self defense just stick with the load it was designed for.

[Jim Watson]

If, let's say, you live in a repressive jurisdiction and able to own only a bona fide target pistol, or if you are a target shooter who just doesn't care about anything else, an accurate five-shooter would be a lot better than a harsh word.

[T. O'Heir]

A 148 grain WC will flatten completely upon impact. Far more to 'em than it appears.
Smith 52's were designed to use nothing but .38 Special 148 grain WC's. Won't feed anything else.
+P .38 Special isn't running at a great deal more pressure than standard .38 loads. Doesn't mean a 52 is rated for 'em though.
.38 Super runs at roughly twice the pressures of a 148 grain .38 Special WC. The guy's damaged his pistol.

[SauerGrapes]

I knew where this discussion was going before I even clicked on it.....{big grin}
Model 52, one of the nicest pistols I've ever shot.

[1911_Hardball]

Addressing the the ammunition question only:
A 148grn hollow base wadcutter seated backwards (hollow base forward) is both expanding and partially frangible.

[Reloadron]

During the early 90s when my wife and I owned a small brick and mortar gun shop I took in and sold a few S&W Model 52 guns. I did enjoy shooting them very much and to this day have regrets about selling them. However, as my wife pointed out many times you can't keep every gun you take in. I really hated that part.

I would not use a S&W Model 52 for personal or home defense and the only reason why is because I have plenty of other guns for that purpose. The gun itself and cartridge, in my humble opinion are more than adequate for either roll however.

I also have never hunted deer or any other game using an AR 15 simply because I have other guns which I feel are better suited for where I hunted and the game I hunted. That is not to say the AR 15 is not adequate for hunting.

Currently I would like to find a nice Colt Series 70 gun in 9mm but if a sweet Model 52 came along at a decent price I would be all over it. The Colt Series 70 9mm can wait. The S&W Model 52 is just one of those guns I would like to shoot again and add to my collection. Personally all I would run through the gun is what it is designed for and if it was all I had for home or personal defense, then so be it, no reservation using it in that roll.

Ron

[muzzleblast...]

Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch

Thanks guys.
My trusty Smith 52 was my centerfire gun for my bullseye competitive years, but since having mostly retired from that era, it's just been sitting in the safe. ...
Just trying to think outside the box a little so I can continue to enjoy it.
I have plenty of other guns for SD.
It's just that it feels so good in the hands!
...

I have a Model 52, but it only sees the safe and the shooting range. My Model 39-2, however, sees a lot of belt time...Even if it is just an antiquated, full size single stack 9mm.

39-2s can be found in good condition. Get one. Your M-52 will enjoy the company. Heck, might as well track down a 539 while you're at it.

[RickB]

I bought a 539, about a year ago.
Absolutely beautiful, but I cannot abide the DA/SA trigger; Long, with too long of a reach, crunchy and heavy in DA; short, too short of a reach, and crunchy in SA.
Still, it's a beauty.