spend as much on a scope as the rifle? - Page 3

Hawg · April 6, 2021, 05:27 AM

I've spent more on a scope than the rifle once. The optics on it were amazing but honestly a scope several hundred dollars cheaper than the rifle would have done just as good. I've got a 25.00 Bushnell on my Marlin model 60. My Weatherby Mark V deluxe wore a budget Leupold. I sold the rifle and kept the scope. I have a Simmons 44 mag on my favorite deer rifle that's been on it for over 20 years. You can shoot an expensive rifle better with cheap optics than you can a cheap rifle with expensive optics.

Nathan · April 6, 2021, 07:27 AM

Honestly, they are separate.

The whole purpose of the saying was to correct the common fudd behavior of putting a $70 optic & $20 mount on a $1000 rifle and then hitching about groups and tracking..... or my rifle won’t sight in.

A short range 0-300 yd rifle scope that is not used as a spotting scope is generally ok at $300 plus $100 mount. That is SFP, duplex, no turret twisting.

For a long range, over 600 yards, turret twisting, tree reticle, spotting over 1000yds, species identification, you might want to drop $3000ish.

There is lots of in between. All of these would be at home on a $800 Savage that shoots 0.75moa groups.

Bart B. · April 6, 2021, 10:24 AM

The 7mm Rem Mag was introduced in 1962 and first used in long range matches in 1970. That's when the first 28 caliber match bullets were available. A friend borrowed the scoped rifle and ammo from another mutual friend to break the 1935 record shot with a 300 H&H Magnum at 1000 yards.

https://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/...wimbledon-cup/

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2020/...rsial-sighters

drive_sideways · April 6, 2021, 11:58 AM

I generally spend decent money on scopes, normally I get “lower” end Leupolds for the $300-$500 range on my hunting rifles. But recently I picked up a bushnell banner nj3-9x40 because it was $100 at my LGS, and I wanted more then a red dot on my .350 legend AR for hunting. I am EXTREMELY impressed by the quality for the money. It’s clear, has long eye relief, and a lifetime warranty. For $150 I got the scope and the mount. I’ve also bought a cheap Truglo scope only to get a crooked reticle, and my muzzle loader came with a no name with no eye relief (150 grains of powder was sketchy, nearly got ringed) that couldn’t hold zero after only 2 shots... I’ve been interested in Vortex, and just ordered a 3.5-10x50 Diamondback for my new .444 I picked up last weekend. We’ll see how it shoots hopefully next weekend

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

stagpanther · April 6, 2021, 01:31 PM

I have several Vortex 4-16x44 Diamondback Tactical Riflescopes with EBR-2C MOA Reticle and have found them to be excellent values in a moderate priced $350 or so scope.

AverageJo · April 6, 2021, 06:23 PM

I am little embarrassed to admit the addiction that I have. I have few of Schmidt and Bender 5-45 x 56 high power PMII scopes and two of NF ATACR 7-35 x 56. Each S&B was about $6k and each NF was about $5k. I know I am sick sooooo there is that :0) and this is not the group to find help either.

Bart B. · April 7, 2021, 07:26 AM

Do binoculars, spotting scopes and camera lenses have parallax adjustments?

stagpanther · April 7, 2021, 09:46 AM

Nope.

Bart B. · April 7, 2021, 10:45 AM

Well then how does their objective lens system focus the target image on the eyepiece lens focal plane?

stagpanther · April 7, 2021, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Well then how does their objective lens system focus the target image on the eyepiece lens focal plane?

Virtually no eye relief and the eye pupil perfectly aligned with objective lens?

7.62 man · April 7, 2021, 11:44 AM

About 10 years ago it was true you had to spend as much or more for good glass as you spent for a good rifle.
But times have changed, Today you can spend your money the way you want but for me a good name brand scope of lower price is what I look for. The big money scopes are only paying for the lifetime warranty. I take good care of my scoped guns & don't need to pay extra for the warranty. The scopes I buy can take a little rough handling & give good accuracy for much less than the high priced scopes. I normally pay 1/4 to 1/2 of what I pay for the gun on a scope.

Shadow9mm · April 7, 2021, 06:48 PM

Bart B.
Stagpanther

I believe spotting scoped and binoculars DO have a paralax adjustment. I believe it is called the focus knob on both. Generally binoculars have one eye piece you can adjust to balance the focus between the 2 tubes. the "focus" on top is actually a paralax adjustment. The spotting scope I have works similarly with the eye piece being adjusted to match your eye, and the focus knob setting the paralax.

stagpanther · April 7, 2021, 06:53 PM

Thanks. ; )

Bart B. · April 8, 2021, 08:06 AM

The correct name for that adjustment on binoculars and spotting scopes is focus.

There's no reticle in them so it's impossible to see if any slight focus error exists. Therefore, there's no parallax.

Shadow9mm · April 8, 2021, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart B.

The correct name for that adjustment on binoculars and spotting scopes is focus.

There's no reticle in them so it's impossible to see if any slight focus error exists. Therefore, there's no parallax.

Don't confuse marketing lingo with function. I have seen more that a few scopes that have "side focus", "range finding focus", and "adjustable objective lenses", which are all paralax adjustments under other names. It does not matter what something is called. It matters what it does.

Bart B. · April 8, 2021, 12:02 PM

You're confusing emotional feelings with telescope lens industry standards for optical functions.

Memorize the first sentence in post 35.

Search the 'net for patent documents that mention "adjusting parallax" then post the link to them.

Who believes a 20X scope has an objective lens system focal length of about 40 inches; 60 inches if 30X?

Shadow9mm · April 8, 2021, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart B.

You're confusing emotional feelings with telescope lens industry standards for optical functions.

Memorize the first sentence in post 35.

Search the 'net for patent documents that mention "adjusting parallax" then post the link to them.

Who believes a 20X scope has an objective lens system focal length of about 40 inches; 60 inches if 30X?

No, no I'm not. I'm concerned with the the function of the knobs do, not what an industry has decided to call it unless the name reflects the actual function. Your criptic answer is rather unhelpful. Feel free to explain and or link documents supporting your explanation rather than tell me to "go look it up". If you have not noticed there is a significant amount of data out there. And tons of it is contradictory. I am sure I can find plenty of documents to support my understanding of things. But finding the specific documents you founds which offer a different perspective, will be well nigh impossible for me.

Not to mention that I would like to understand, rather than go tit for tat with documents.

For example. Some scopes have a fast focus eye piece. However in a different industry, binoculars, it is commonly called a "diopter". However by definition Diopter is " a unit of measurement of the optical power of a lens or curved mirror". While it may be making ad adjustment to the power of the lens it in and of itself is not a diopter. While some industry standard terminologies are good, some are completely inaccurate. And not all companies use "industry standard terminology", like some companies calling something that does the same function as paralax adjustment, adjustable objective lense, side focus knob, range finding focus knob, and I am sure others. I again, am concerned with the function, not industry lingo, unless it is consistent (which is it not in this case) and reflects the actual function.

Also, we are entirely off topic.

Bart B. · April 8, 2021, 07:10 PM

Shadow9mm,

That knob always focuses the target image in the reticle when set correctly.

It changes parallax only when the eye is off the scope's optical axis

HiBC · April 8, 2021, 11:59 PM

I really do not know that much about optics. I do not take optics apart or make changes. I know,its just a thing,like a gun or a carburetor. Not everyone should monkey with those,either.

Just mentally pondering... Isn't parallax about the apparent displacement of the reticle??? And doesn't that have something to do with the reticle being exactly at some focal length? So then would first or second focal plane reticle have something to do with adjusting parallax?

I don't know that I'm doing anything right,but I prefer vaiables with a power ring,rather than twisting the eyepiece.
I do not think the rotating eyepiece variables are as robust.
I don't have the quick focus oculars. I have the kind with the lock ring,and I go for the best reticle focus I can get against the sky. I suppose if a rifle gets passed around,the quick focus could be good. For my personal rifle? The lockring type does not move. Less fiddling and distraction.

If I have a side or objective focus,I don't look at the "range" on the knob.

I go for best reticle focus.

Binoculars and spotting scopes? Without a reticle...What is "apparently displaced" I don't have binos or spotting scope with a reticle. I might some day. It would be good to know about.

Typical binos have one master focus wheel,and one ocular focus to synch both eyes. Cover the eye with the adjustable ocular,and get best focus with the master wheel.Then.without moving the master,get best focus with the adjustable ocular.

Bart B. · April 9, 2021, 08:21 AM

HiBC,

Yes, parallax is the visual angular displacement of the reticle from the target image when the aiming eye is off the scope optical axis.

If the eye is to the right of that axis and the target image is in front of the second focal plane reticle because the scope's focused beyond target range, the target appears right of the reticle center.

As the scope's objective lenses are focused at shorter ranges, the second focal plane target image moves back and will be focused on the reticle when the objective lens system is focused on the closer target after moving forward enough (or optically changes its focal length) to do that.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parallax

stagpanther · April 9, 2021, 09:01 AM

Quote:

There's no reticle in them so it's impossible to see if any slight focus error exists. Therefore, there's no parallax.

My father served on destroyers in the Navy--I'm almost certain he had binoculars that had a ranging reticle. he also had an obsession with making every piece of furniture possible out of spent 5 inch main battery cases.

MarkCO · April 9, 2021, 09:44 AM

Reticle or not has NOTHING to do with parallax.

Bart B. · April 9, 2021, 10:21 AM

USN ship's binoculars never had any ranging scale in them. A stadimeter was used.

https://www.google.com/search?q=stad...obile&ie=UTF-8

Main battery radar or stereoscopic rangefinders were also used.

I've used all of them to help the ships navigation department do their job.

stagpanther · April 9, 2021, 02:10 PM

I was just a wee lad--maybe I was imagining things.

shafter · April 9, 2021, 02:43 PM

I don't pay so much attention to the dollar amount as I do the overall quality. I want a high quality scope on a high quality rifle; however alot depends on what I'm trying to do. For most of my purposes all I need out of a scope is for it to hold it's zero and not fog up. There are plenty of good options that cost less than half of what a middle of the road rifle would cost.

April 6, 2021, 10:24 AM	#53
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,922	The 7mm Rem Mag was introduced in 1962 and first used in long range matches in 1970. That's when the first 28 caliber match bullets were available. A friend borrowed the scoped rifle and ammo from another mutual friend to break the 1935 record shot with a 300 H&H Magnum at 1000 yards. https://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/...wimbledon-cup/ https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2020/...rsial-sighters Last edited by Bart B.; April 6, 2021 at 11:31 AM.

April 6, 2021, 01:31 PM	#55
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 10,586	I have several Vortex 4-16x44 Diamondback Tactical Riflescopes with EBR-2C MOA Reticle and have found them to be excellent values in a moderate priced $350 or so scope. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

April 7, 2021, 09:46 AM	#58
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 10,586	Nope. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

April 7, 2021, 06:48 PM	#62
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,314	Bart B. Stagpanther I believe spotting scoped and binoculars DO have a paralax adjustment. I believe it is called the focus knob on both. Generally binoculars have one eye piece you can adjust to balance the focus between the 2 tubes. the "focus" on top is actually a paralax adjustment. The spotting scope I have works similarly with the eye piece being adjusted to match your eye, and the focus knob setting the paralax. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

April 7, 2021, 06:53 PM	#63
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 10,586	Thanks. ; ) __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

April 6, 2021, 05:27 AM	#51
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 15,981	I've spent more on a scope than the rifle once. The optics on it were amazing but honestly a scope several hundred dollars cheaper than the rifle would have done just as good. I've got a 25.00 Bushnell on my Marlin model 60. My Weatherby Mark V deluxe wore a budget Leupold. I sold the rifle and kept the scope. I have a Simmons 44 mag on my favorite deer rifle that's been on it for over 20 years. You can shoot an expensive rifle better with cheap optics than you can a cheap rifle with expensive optics.

April 6, 2021, 07:27 AM	#52
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 5,880	Honestly, they are separate. The whole purpose of the saying was to correct the common fudd behavior of putting a $70 optic & $20 mount on a $1000 rifle and then hitching about groups and tracking..... or my rifle won’t sight in. A short range 0-300 yd rifle scope that is not used as a spotting scope is generally ok at $300 plus $100 mount. That is SFP, duplex, no turret twisting. For a long range, over 600 yards, turret twisting, tree reticle, spotting over 1000yds, species identification, you might want to drop $3000ish. There is lots of in between. All of these would be at home on a $800 Savage that shoots 0.75moa groups.

April 6, 2021, 11:58 AM	#54
drive_sideways Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2014 Posts: 142	I generally spend decent money on scopes, normally I get “lower” end Leupolds for the $300-$500 range on my hunting rifles. But recently I picked up a bushnell banner nj3-9x40 because it was $100 at my LGS, and I wanted more then a red dot on my .350 legend AR for hunting. I am EXTREMELY impressed by the quality for the money. It’s clear, has long eye relief, and a lifetime warranty. For $150 I got the scope and the mount. I’ve also bought a cheap Truglo scope only to get a crooked reticle, and my muzzle loader came with a no name with no eye relief (150 grains of powder was sketchy, nearly got ringed) that couldn’t hold zero after only 2 shots... I’ve been interested in Vortex, and just ordered a 3.5-10x50 Diamondback for my new .444 I picked up last weekend. We’ll see how it shoots hopefully next weekend Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

April 6, 2021, 06:23 PM	#56
AverageJo Junior Member Join Date: April 1, 2015 Posts: 14	I am little embarrassed to admit the addiction that I have. I have few of Schmidt and Bender 5-45 x 56 high power PMII scopes and two of NF ATACR 7-35 x 56. Each S&B was about $6k and each NF was about $5k. I know I am sick sooooo there is that :0) and this is not the group to find help either.

April 7, 2021, 07:26 AM	#57
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,922	Do binoculars, spotting scopes and camera lenses have parallax adjustments?

April 7, 2021, 10:45 AM	#59
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,922	Well then how does their objective lens system focus the target image on the eyepiece lens focal plane?

April 7, 2021, 11:44 AM	#61
7.62 man Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2009 Location: Cyber-world USA Posts: 253	About 10 years ago it was true you had to spend as much or more for good glass as you spent for a good rifle. But times have changed, Today you can spend your money the way you want but for me a good name brand scope of lower price is what I look for. The big money scopes are only paying for the lifetime warranty. I take good care of my scoped guns & don't need to pay extra for the warranty. The scopes I buy can take a little rough handling & give good accuracy for much less than the high priced scopes. I normally pay 1/4 to 1/2 of what I pay for the gun on a scope.

April 8, 2021, 08:06 AM	#64
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,922	The correct name for that adjustment on binoculars and spotting scopes is focus. There's no reticle in them so it's impossible to see if any slight focus error exists. Therefore, there's no parallax.

April 8, 2021, 12:02 PM	#66
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,922	You're confusing emotional feelings with telescope lens industry standards for optical functions. Memorize the first sentence in post 35. Search the 'net for patent documents that mention "adjusting parallax" then post the link to them. Who believes a 20X scope has an objective lens system focal length of about 40 inches; 60 inches if 30X? Last edited by Bart B.; April 8, 2021 at 12:33 PM.

April 8, 2021, 07:10 PM	#68
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,922	Shadow9mm, That knob always focuses the target image in the reticle when set correctly. It changes parallax only when the eye is off the scope's optical axis Last edited by Bart B.; April 10, 2021 at 08:08 AM.

April 8, 2021, 11:59 PM	#69
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 7,991	I really do not know that much about optics. I do not take optics apart or make changes. I know,its just a thing,like a gun or a carburetor. Not everyone should monkey with those,either. Just mentally pondering... Isn't parallax about the apparent displacement of the reticle??? And doesn't that have something to do with the reticle being exactly at some focal length? So then would first or second focal plane reticle have something to do with adjusting parallax? I don't know that I'm doing anything right,but I prefer vaiables with a power ring,rather than twisting the eyepiece. I do not think the rotating eyepiece variables are as robust. I don't have the quick focus oculars. I have the kind with the lock ring,and I go for the best reticle focus I can get against the sky. I suppose if a rifle gets passed around,the quick focus could be good. For my personal rifle? The lockring type does not move. Less fiddling and distraction. If I have a side or objective focus,I don't look at the "range" on the knob. I go for best reticle focus. Binoculars and spotting scopes? Without a reticle...What is "apparently displaced" I don't have binos or spotting scope with a reticle. I might some day. It would be good to know about. Typical binos have one master focus wheel,and one ocular focus to synch both eyes. Cover the eye with the adjustable ocular,and get best focus with the master wheel.Then.without moving the master,get best focus with the adjustable ocular. Last edited by HiBC; April 9, 2021 at 12:21 AM.

April 9, 2021, 08:21 AM	#70
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,922	HiBC, Yes, parallax is the visual angular displacement of the reticle from the target image when the aiming eye is off the scope optical axis. If the eye is to the right of that axis and the target image is in front of the second focal plane reticle because the scope's focused beyond target range, the target appears right of the reticle center. As the scope's objective lenses are focused at shorter ranges, the second focal plane target image moves back and will be focused on the reticle when the objective lens system is focused on the closer target after moving forward enough (or optically changes its focal length) to do that. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parallax Last edited by Bart B.; April 9, 2021 at 09:03 AM.

April 9, 2021, 09:44 AM	#72
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 3,804	Reticle or not has NOTHING to do with parallax. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

April 9, 2021, 10:21 AM	#73
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,922	USN ship's binoculars never had any ranging scale in them. A stadimeter was used. https://www.google.com/search?q=stad...obile&ie=UTF-8 Main battery radar or stereoscopic rangefinders were also used. I've used all of them to help the ships navigation department do their job. Last edited by Bart B.; April 9, 2021 at 11:25 AM.

April 9, 2021, 02:10 PM	#74
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 10,586	I was just a wee lad--maybe I was imagining things. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

April 9, 2021, 02:43 PM	#75
shafter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Posts: 1,613	I don't pay so much attention to the dollar amount as I do the overall quality. I want a high quality scope on a high quality rifle; however alot depends on what I'm trying to do. For most of my purposes all I need out of a scope is for it to hold it's zero and not fog up. There are plenty of good options that cost less than half of what a middle of the road rifle would cost.

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