true blue and 9mm: best with 124 or 147 fmj?

[filthy phil]

Picked up a pound.
Would really like to do a thousand of the heavy. Already have a ton of 124's.
Anybody have experience with these options?
I had a dozen 124gr xtreme rn lying around and loaded them with 5.5gr.
havent test fired yet.
Wanting to go with true fmj projectiles.
Thanks

[noylj]

You want True Blue loads for 147gn jacketed bullets in 9x19?
All I have is 4.5gn start and 5.0gn max at 1.125" COL (for both lead and jacketed bullets). If COL is less, drop the start load. I would tend to start at 4.0gn myself and live with 5-10 non-cycling rounds just for safety. This also goes along with Silhouette and True Blue, though different powders, often having very similar load ranges with each switching burn rate with different cartridges and Silhouette showing a start load of 3.7gn and a max range of 4.5-5.3gn for 147gn jacketed bullets.
With 121-125gn jacketed bullets, I show start loads ranging from 4.8-5.6gn and MAX loads ranging from 5.8-6.6gn, with 5.7gn being accurate in my guns with MG JHPs at 1.125" COL.

[filthy phil]

Yeah, I can find data. Just looking for real world experience
Thanks

[noylj]

Most "real world" experience is probably with very fast powders for action pistol shooting of minor loads. I have no 9mm Major data (and wouldn't pass them on any way, and what I do have is for 114-124gn bullets loaded LONG in properly chambered arms) and a minor load would be somewhere in the 4.5-4.7gn range.
I have not seen any True Blue load data in the forums, though you might find some if your Google-foo is good enough.
Western has more data on their site than I have.
Sorry, no personal experience.
In general, for 9x19, if the range from start to max is 1.0gn, then the most accurate load is often found at about 80-90% of that charge range.

[filthy phil]

Well I had a few 124rn plated left. Loaded them with 5.5 tb
Bought 500 115gr fmj yesterday at the fun show. Pushing them with 5.9
hopefully test both those this wk

[histed]

I've been loading 124/125 cast with 4.6 True Blue and getting 15 yard groups of 2" or less from a SCCY 9mm. No experience with 147s, sorry. This powder also works very well in 38/357 with both 125 and 158 cast. I cast my own using COWW and 50/50 tumble lube. TB seems to be a very clean powder and meters very well in a measure. Hope this helps

[filthy phil]

Given up on lead.
Kept getting rounds hung up on the feed ramp of my 1911.
and since blowing up a g20 (actually an oob event) wont shoot much of it out of those.
Thirdly, id rather have a stockpile of the hard, in a shtf/teotwawki scenario.

In my lee ppm so much true blue falls out I had to place the top of my die box to catch it all.
I imagine the better built dispensers dont leak so bad?

[histed]

Again, never used a Lee, but that does surprise me a little. I've had no problems with my RCBS. If you're interested, there was a lot of discussion in the Cast section here and on the Cast Boolits forum about using cast in a Glock. Whatever bullet you pick, I think you'll be happy with the powder.

[filthy phil]

Tried the 5.5 true blue with a few 124 plated. Wouldnt cycle my glock 17
I screwed up my samples of the 115gr

[highrolls]

While searching for a non-plus P load that would cycle the heavier blow-back bolts of nine mm carbines, one of the powders I tried was True Blue. I should note that load testing for pistol calibers is made more difficult due to the lower pressure of pistol calibers versus rifle calibers. I thus use a statistical approach which involves multiple powders, multiple guns, and a "control" load which is known to function in the guns as desired.

The load range for the 115 grain winchester bullets I used that properly cycled all three guns was the following:

6.3, 6.4, 6.5, 6.6, and 6.7 grains of Ramshot True Blue.

The load range for the Montana Gold 124 grain bullets I used that properly cycled all three guns was the following:

6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4 grains of Ramshot True Blue.

115 grain bullets:

Case comparisons showed the beginnings of a firing pin crater mark for gun one at the 6.7 grain load for the 115 grain bullets. Gun two had flatter than "normal" primers (not to be mistaken for truly flattened primers as in rifle loads) for the 6.5, 6.6, and 6.7 loads. Gun three showed firing pin mark discolorations (which seemed to be pinhole primer leaks) for the 6.4, 6.5, 6.6 and 6.7 grain loads, plus bright extractor marks compared to other loads tested, including the control loads.

124 grain bullets:

Case comparisons showed firing pin crater on the 6.3 and 6.4 grain loads with gun one. Gun two cases showed flatter than normal primers for all the True Blue range above. Gun three showed firing pin mark discolorations for the 6.3 and 6.4 loads.

While all the above loads were properly functioning the guns, I concluded from the above observations that True Blue was showing signs, statistically, that were different from that which I desired. I did not test True Blue further with the nine mm.

[filthy phil]

When i loaded for a semi uzi, both 16" and after i sbr it, i found the heavier bullets worked great,nthe 147s
But Yeah i made up some 115 with 6.3.
Hopefully test this week

[highrolls]

Originally Posted by filthy phil

i made up some 115 with 6.3.
Hopefully test this week

If I had known I would have included more complete information. I was using an average OAL of 1.145", primers were CCI 500, all cases I tested were once fired head stamped WCC 09. Range temperature was 93 deg. F and range altitude was approx. 6100 ft ASL. The exact bullet types used are in another thread here which I will look for if you need the info.

None of the loads I posted above, with the information added herein, should be in the +P range but I am betting that you will find your Glock (4th gen ? you did not say) will begin to function properly, Just watch for anything out of the ordinary since my testing suggests to me that True Blue seems to be a bit quirky in the 9 mm as you approach SAAMI maximum load levels. Just because your Glock (and the guns I tested) can handle +P loads does not automatically mean SAAMI max levels are safe. A quirky powder can be an unpleasant surprise at any pressure level. That is why I discarded it for further 9mm testing.

Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention that I prepare test loads against check weights on a gravity scale, as I do with ALL production loads as well. My only use for a powder measure is to produce mechanical pressure to flare the pistol cases.

[filthy phil]

Thats gotta be the most scientific breakdown of reloading stats ive ever read outside of a manual. My hats off to you sir

[filthy phil]

The load 6.3 trueblue with the 115gr rem fmj worked fantastic. Shot to poa in my g26.
gonna load up about 400 just like that

[highrolls]

Originally Posted by filthy phil

The load 6.3 trueblue with the 115gr rem fmj worked fantastic. Shot to poa in my g26.
gonna load up about 400 just like that

I am glad it is working for you. As I said earlier, that was the BEGINNING of the load range that properly functioned the heavy bolts in the three 9mm carbines I tested. It was a powder that met the functional requirements I wanted but the statistical signs I was getting were pointing to troublesome signs as the top end of the load range was approached. I want more than functional. I want the empty cases to come out again in fairly pristine condition cause I want to keep reloading them many times. I did not believe True Blue was going to get me there.

On that note, I think what I ended up with looks to be good for your Glock as well.

For Alliant Power Pistol

The load range for the 115 grain winchester bullets I used that properly cycled all three guns was the following:

6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4, and 6.5 grains

The load range for the Montana Gold 124 grain bullets was exactly THE SAME as the above. (Actually, I tested the heavy bullets first)

For Ramshot Silhouette

The load range for the 115 grain winchester bullets I used that properly cycled all three guns was the following:

5.1 grains through to 5.9 grains

Again, same range and functionality for the Montana Gold 124 graint bullets, but again I tested these heavier bullets first and based the pressure estimates on them, using the winchester Hollow base lighter bullets as a safety margin and testing to see if duplicating the OAL of the heavier bullet with the hollow base would give the same results with the same charges, which they did.

Special Note: Neither Power Pistol nor Silhouette gave any troubling signs to the cases or primers throughout the above test range, thus the selection of these two powders for my common heavy-bolt carbine loads.

Based upon your results with True Blue, I would suggest 6.1 grains of Power Pistol or 5.1 grains of Silhouette as alternatives to try if True Blue becomes hard to find.