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Old August 13, 2017, 07:49 PM   #26
Mobuck
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"I just don't see where BCM is worth twice as much as Aero Precision."

"Logo Ego" is an expensive affliction.
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Old August 13, 2017, 08:36 PM   #27
marine6680
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BCM vs Aero...

BCM has better QC, on the whole. Not that Aero has bad QC.
BCM has a much stricter adherence to milspec or goes up to milspec+.
BCM offers enhanced components like the gunfighter CH, and CHF barrels. (yes, the CH can be bought seperatly and easily swapped)
BCM has chrome lined barrels, Aero has Nitrided. (Both are proper 4150cmv steel... Nitride is a great barrel treatment, and can be more accurate if all things are equal... like things can ever be equal... But chrome line is tougher long term, and handles rapid fire better)
BCM has milspec BCGs, Aero are milspec but for nitrided. (I would argue the BCM BCG is better overall, but not by a great amount)
BCM KMR handguards are well made and light. (you can buy them separately and install them yourself though... but swapping parts adds to costs)
BCM has a reputation of great customer service. (I haven't heard complaints about Aero though)
BCM is a known higher end brand, and that matters to some.

Is that worth the extra cost? Depends on the person.

The two BCM uppers I linked above... Kitted out with a BCG and Gunfighter CH, they cost 40% more than an equivalent Aero Upper with a BCG and CH. And that Aero has a standard CH, adding an enhanced CH like the BCM, will add an additional $50 (most nice CH are around $50-70) which reduces the price difference closer to 30%...

You can upgrade the BCM to the CHF barrel for about $75 more, which it increases the price difference, but adds a better barrel.

I am not a fan of any of the Aero free float handguards... So I could not buy one of theirs complete. So that erodes the price advantage.

BCM offers some other free float rails other than their own. That does increase the cost about $75 give or take, depending on which brand rail it is. (The BCM KMR Alpha, is in my opinion, one of the best free float rails, so I would just stick with them, personally)

So a BCM upper isn't twice the cost... Only 40% more give or take, for an equivalent/similar build.



As far as a complete lower... The Aero costs $200, and the BCM is $400.

But, the Aero is a basic lower, with GI style furniture on it.

The BCM comes with their buttstock, pistol grip, enlarged trigger guard, enhanced milspec trigger, QD sling mount end plate, and an H buffer rather than the "carbine" buffer... The H buffer is the new standard buffer, and I recommend them as a starting point for most AR builds.

Upgrading the Aero lower... By adding better furniture, an H buffer, a QD sling mount end plate, and an enhanced milspec trigger like an ALG ACT... (common upgrades already included in the BCM) it adds $190 to the price. Making the lower only $20 less than a BCM, for an equivalent setup... 5% difference.

Aero also offers a lower that has B5 systems stock, grip, and trigger guard, and it costs $280... Still has a standard trigger, "carbine" buffer, and no QD endplate. If you get an enhanced trigger, QD endplate, and H buffer, its about $110 added to the price... Making this equivalent Aero receiver only $10 less than a BCM... Less than 5% less... (you do need to like the B5 parts as well)

So for a lower... Going Aero, with equivalent features... Is only a minimum savings of $10-20 (or 5% lower than a BCM)... And requires you to do the work to get those equivalent features.

Now, you do have to like the BCM stock and pistol grip... But I find them very comfortable and well made, and now have them on 3 of my ARs.

If you prefer other grips and stocks, choosing the basic Aero would be the best way to go, as it would cost less in the long run. But if you get an expensive stock, some Magpul stocks are close to $100, some even more... It will cost more than the BCM does.

So for the lower... Depending on your preferences for stock and grip... and penchant to want a trigger that is better than the typical milspec trigger... The BCM is cost efficient.



As was mentioned... The Uppers do cost around 40% more... And it is up to the individual to decide if the points made above, are worth the price difference.


It is also relevant to point out, that much of the enhanced features... and Superior components... Are of little use to the average AR owner. And in fact, a basic Aero rifle is made well enough for me to trust it in harsh conditions. With quality levels approaching those of a basic Colt 6920... An Aero kitted out with a free float handguard and good furniture, is a very good rifle, that would be more than enough for most owners, even if they wanted a rifle suitable for "end times"

But the BCM does have some objectively better features, and some other features, that depending on the situation, are also superior.

So, its up to the individual to decide what they want and/or need.


An aside... or two...

I got my BCM uppers when they had the sale, where you could add the BCG and a CH for only $60... So they cost me $150 less than the current pricing. This made the price difference much less for me... So it was a no brainer to pick up a couple.

Also... BCM is rumored to be releasing M-lok versions of the KMR sometime this year... I hope they do... Though I am not likely to change out the current KMRs I have, and Key-mod is good enough of a mounting system for my needs... M-lok is an objectively better mounting system.


And...all that said, my current go to home defense rifle is a PSA premium... But that would still cost $900 to build as it sits, no optic...

Last edited by marine6680; August 13, 2017 at 09:21 PM.
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Old August 13, 2017, 10:33 PM   #28
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Have you given any thought to what sight you want to use?

A good red dot is probably the way to go, but it depends on what you want to do with the rifle...

I like Aimpoint, best red dot sights available, but they do cost more than others brands.

The Aimpoint PRO is well liked, and decently affordable... Being around $450 with a mount. Lots of features like NV compatibility, and long battery life... Its a larger red dot... Some don't like that, some do. For a smaller sight, Aimpoint micro red dot sights cost around $800 with a proper AR mount. (that is for the H2 model, it costs less than the T2 model, but looses night vision goggle compatibility... most civilians don't have NV anyway) Micro red dots are small and lightweight, a big plus for some.

The new Trijicon MRO is a pretty good sight as well. Smaller than the PRO, close to a micro size, just a bit bigger, but at a price only a bit more than a PRO... A mount will increase the price, but some retailers offer it with a free mount, some with a very good free mount. (I will be posting a review on the MRO soon)

The Sig Romeo4 was approved for duty use by the FBI, but I have no direct experience with them. Around $400-450 with mount, depending on the specific model and feature set. They are micro sized red dots. (from looking at their features, I don't think they are quite as good as Aimpoint or Trijicon, but the price is better for some)

Some more budget friendly options are Sig Romeo5 sights, at $220ish. It is a micro size as well.

Vortex makes a few decent red dot options in the $150-200 range. A larger red dot, and a micro sized.

Primary Arms, and Holosun have red dots in the $250 price range. Micro sized...


Things you get with the higher priced sights, like the Aimpoints and Trijicon...

1) Stupidly long battery life... We are talking YEARS or continuous always on, never turn it off use... The PRO is 3.5 years of battery life at a medium high setting... The others are 5+ years at similar brightness settings. The electronics in these things are super efficient. These are designed to be ready to go at a moment's notice.
2) Very rugged and tough.
3) Very clear high quality glass.
4) Excellent waterproofness, and fog resistance. With average submersion in water of 100ft or more.
5) Great warranty and customer service.

The lower cost midrange red dots loose some features... Less waterproof, not quite as rugged, optical quality not as good. Many do keep the long battery life, through some mechanism or another... Like motionsense auto power on/off, or decently efficient electronics.

The lower cost options, under $200... Tend to loose the long battery life... Vortex does have an excellent warranty though, lifetime no questions asked... Even if its your fault... Its better than even the big boys on paper... But I have read that Aimpoint and Trijicon both tend to take back sights under warranty for just about anything, no matter what... Even if they don't expressly state so in their warranty. So, usually they will fix or replace just about anything, but they do reserve the right to say no...


If you decide to add backup folding iron sights too, I really like the MBUS Pro sights. Light, and trim, don't take up much room, and look good.

Regular MBUS are cheap, reliable, and work well... But are a bit bulky.

There are other good BUIS as well.


If you want to go with a low powered magnified optic, we can go over those as well.
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Old August 13, 2017, 11:16 PM   #29
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BCM v. Aero... well done marine6680.

Excellent comparison.
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Old August 13, 2017, 11:17 PM   #30
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I've been looking at the Aim-point T2 or Pro. I'd say my budget for scope would be no more than $450.00. I'd probably be spending a lot of time on the shooting range. I already am already with Glock 19 and Glock 34. But at the same time I want a scope that would come in handy for self defense too. I know It's probably hard to have everything you want in one package. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is people using iron sights combined with scope due to battery life? Eventually I'll need to get a spotting scope too. For sure I want to go flip-up iron sights. Or I guess I'd say I have almost no choice with the scope.

I've been looking at some of the EOTECH scopes. I haven't shot with red dot scope yet. I've shot a few times with manified scope. Just can't remember exactly which EOTECH he's using, though. But I'd say for iron sights, I probably don't want to spend over $215-$230.00. Unless I'm really tempted otherwise.

But am I losing out on clarity on manified optics compared to a red dot? Just sucks that not a single one of the gun stores here in Las vegas, NV rent out scopes to try out. But at least for the two stores that have indoor ranges don't. Heck, I'm keeping a lot of your advice in handy when I go to the LGS tomorrow to get the lower. I'll be playing with the uppers for the sake of things. Just won't pull the trigger right away. Just spent a lot of money on my tiles / flooring for house for crying out loud. I haven't looked deep into the uppers in any of the gun stores. But Are the charging handle and bolt carrier separate? It seems that way according to BCM uppers on the website.

Yes, well done. Great comparisons he's given. Really great help. I'd probably buy my stuff at his gun store if he was local and had one.

Last edited by kevra1983; August 13, 2017 at 11:51 PM.
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Old August 14, 2017, 12:21 AM   #31
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Here is the deal... If all you want to do is go plink and have fun at the gun range... Get whatever sights make you happy...

If you are thinking about home defense... or a fighting rifle setup... That changes things.


An unmagnified optic, like a red dot...



Is best for home defense, and general plinking at the range... They are hands down the best choice for indoor use, which is the most likely scenario in a home defense situation... They are forgiving of less than ideal head placement and awkward shooting positions, which is good for use behind cover.

And if you are a prepper, or otherwise inclined to think about possible situations of societal breakdown, be it long term or short term... Red dots are good for the most common combat/fighting scenarios... Being very effective from up close, and out to 300yds... And even a bit more if you have the skill. making them good for defending your home, or if you are caught outdoors in a bad situation. For the civilian, even in an "end of world" situation... If you are being attacked from more than a 100yds away... best strategy is to do a fighting retreat... Too many people envision themselves at the end of the world, engaging in big firefights... Not going to happen.


A low power magnified optic...



Besides range plinking... Is good for more open terrain. It tries to give you quick close range sighting, and increased precision at longer ranges out to 500yds or so, all in one package. But the universal truth of firearms, is that everything is a trade off, and compromise. If you gain in one area, you loose in another... And if you try to do it all, you will not do any of it very well... They are not as good as red dots up close, and are not as good at longer ranges (say 200-500yds) as a full power scope.

Even when dialed down to 1x (no magnification) they are not as fast as red dots at close range, and have some limitations that make them less useful in close range fighting. They are not tolerant of bad head position... If you can't get lined up behind them correctly, they are not very good, or even useless. They are better than nothing in the sub 25yd range... But Inside 25yds, I suggest you learn point shooting if you have a low power scope.

Most likely when you need to shoot close range, the scope will still be set to max magnification... So you have to take the time to adjust it, or use it with the magnification still on max.

There are techniques for close range shooting, that have you shooting with both eyes open, with the scope still dialed to its max magnification, but they require a good bit of training to get good at. Some people can't get past the disparate images from their eyes, and can't get good with that technique... Some people use offset irons, but it's not something I would go for... Maybe if paired with a high power scope... But it goes against my philosophy of keeping a fighting rifle simple and to the point of what it is to be used for.

But low power scopes are pretty effective in the 25-100yd range, especially with the magnification turned up... If you can get lined up behind them properly... As the limitations of them being a scope, and not a red dot still applies. So I don't look to them as being effective for a fighting rifle under 100yds.

People will tell you they are just as fast as a red dot or better in the 25-100yd range... But that is on a shooting range or in a competition, when you are not getting shot at... Its a different story when you are trying to shoot from behind cover, or otherwise not get shot... Under 100yds... red dot all the way for me.

To me, a 1-4x or 1-6x scope is really aimed at the 100-500yd situation. For guys out on patrol, in terrain that is more open, and where most engagements will happen at 100-500yds, with little chance of door kicking CQB situations. Having the 1x setting, just allows you to not be completely useless should ranges get closer than 100yds.

Competition shooters also put them to good use as well, as they have some stages that require shooting at varying distances out to a few hundred yards... But that is competition, not fighting.

Another thing to keep in mind is that battery life is only a few hundred hours with most illuminated scopes... They often have automatic power shutoff as well. They are not likely to be on and ready to go in the middle of the night. And you need illumination to use one effectively at night and close range, or with the both eyes open technique at really any time.

There are also fixed low power scopes, like the ACOG, that range from a fixed 1.5x, to 4x or even 6x... Some use fiber optics to gather light during the day, and tritium at night, so they do not need batteries... But they are very expensive... Many of the limitations of variable 1-4/6x scopes comes into play with them as well, but without the ability to switch to no magnification.



A full magnified optic... A typical scope... Like a 3-9x, that you see on hunting rifles everywhere... Those are for long range precision, 100yds and greater. They have their place... If the rifle is built with precision in mind... But they are not for HD, not even with offset sights, would I use a rifle with a full power scope for HD use... In the real world military use, they are used in a supplemental manner to help enhance a team's capabilities. At close range the added bulk and weight is a hinderance. Even with offset sights, you can't get around the bulk and weight.

For a typical 5.56 AR, 500yds is about the max range that they are combat effective. Though they can make accurate hits at longer ranges, most ammo loses too much punch past 500yds. But a civilian, even in a situation of societal breakdown... Is not likely to need to make shots past 200-300yds.



Now... For back up iron sights. (BUIS)

The reason for them... Is that anything can fail. An optic can be damaged, or the battery can go dead, or the electronics can just die... So having a backup sighting system is a good idea on a fighting rifle.

Now, with high quality optics, the chances are slim that you will have a problem. They are very reliable and tough, like drop it from the roof tough... If you change the batteries in them on a regular schedule, say, every year on your birthday... You shouldn't have issues with batteries dying unexpectedly either.

Dead batteries is actually a situation more prevalent with Eotech sights, or similar, as the battery life is only a couple thousand hours at best... They also have automatic power down due to the low battery life, so if you forget to reset the timer by messing with the controls, you may find the sight off when you need it.

So in essence, BUIS are emergency sights only... Which is why many just get MBUS, as they are low cost, but still reliable and tough. But there are nicer BUIS available... I like MBUS Pro sights, and others may like something different. Features vary, and what is important to some, is not to others.

When using a BUIS, having the optic on a Quick Detach (QD) mount is a good idea. On a red dot, if the glass is cracked, it can impede aiming, so it needs out of the way. If the glass is fine, you can just sight through it.

For a magnified optic, you can't use the BUIS with it mounted, so QD is the only way. But you can use offset sights, but I am not a huge fan of them. I do see their utility in some situations, but usually they are not needed and simple BUIS are fine.



As far as your price range... for a red dot... I suggest the Aimpoint PRO... The included QD mount is solid, if a bit bulky. (see the above pic for the PRO with included mount, Compare it with the lower profile QD system of the scope mount in the second pic)

Another option, the Trijicon MRO. If you get it from Larue, you can get the sight and a Larue QD mount, for $500.



For a BUIS... The MBUS runs around $75 for a front and rear set. The MBUS Pro cost about $150 for a front and rear set.

Take heed... The Magpul MBUS have "licenced copy" airsoft versions, and even some counterfeits as well... These are lower quality sights made to be sold cheap for airsoft players... You can find them being sold by the unscrupulous as the real deal... Often at bargain prices, that lure the unexpecting. Buying from trusted sources is best. The biggest culprit, is the "fulfilled by Amazon" service... Amazon does their best to get only the real deal products, so on the whole, the "sold by Amazon" stuff is legit... But if a 3rd party company uses the "fulfilled by" service, even if the company is legit and trustworthy... There can be issues. As the way the service works... The company sends their stock to Amazon, its marked with a product code, and dumped into a big bin. The problem is that all of the inventory from every other 3rd party seller goes into the same bin, so if some unsavory company buys the fake stuff, or the licensed lower quality stuff, but passes it off as the real thing, it all goes into that same bin. Then when Amazon grabs one out of the bin to ship to you, even if you bought it from an upstanding seller, you may get a fake. (Amazon's personal inventory is kept separate, so they are unlikely to get theirs mixed in with fakes, though on occasion, the way Amazon sources their products, fakes can sneak in. I buy from Amazon regularly, mostly for non-gun related stuff, and haven't had an issue yet, but I buy the Sold by Amazon whenever possible)

This isn't limited to MBUS sights, but they are the most common gun product that this happens with.

With the current market, direct authorized dealers like Brownells, Midway, and Primary Arms, all have pricing as good as Amazon now, or even better, if you catch a sale.



If you want a low power magnified optic... For under $500, there are a few good options. I can go over them if you like.


Uppers... Sometimes the BCG and CH are included... Sometimes not. Depends on the company. Aero offers a couple combos that include the BCG and CH in the price, but most of their uppers need to have them added at additional cost.

BCM is the same way, usually the BCG and CH are an additional cost. (if you go BCM upper, I suggest not getting their CH with the large latch, I find it way too big, more prone to snagging and uncomfortable when the rifle is slung. Its mostly useful for setups with larger magnified optics... The medium and small work well for most setups)

I also suggest you get the uppers direct from the manufacture... Usually (but not always) the prices are the best going direct... The upper isn't controlled like the lower, so you can have the upper sent directly to your house.

Last edited by marine6680; August 14, 2017 at 02:08 AM.
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Old August 14, 2017, 11:45 AM   #32
kevra1983
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Yeah, I may take your idea on buying the upper online. It seems that prices on BCM USA website for the uppers have good sales on all of them. Plus at LGS have to deal with darn sales tax too on top of it. Seems like we only have to pay just the shipping which is nice. I'm glad you reminded of that it would come directly to my house.

Your info is very good. I'm still reading over all your info. I'm going in a few minutes here to get the complete lower. Just waiting for the store to open. So hopefully I didn't understand this correctly, so even a red-dot would still function pretty well up to 300 yards as your saying? With my experience level, I doubt I'd be shooting anything over 150 yards right away anyway. I'll take a look around at the different scopes and iron sights that they have at the store. I'm sure it's always better to get a feel just by going by what you see online.

That's my decision there too. Is really deciding between a decent red dot scope and low power magnified scopes. If it's not much trouble, fill me in on those. That's typical the price range I want to stay under anyhow. Yeah, I noticed right away how pricey some of the ACOG's are.
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Old August 14, 2017, 02:58 PM   #33
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I love a good red dot. But my Aimpoint Micro is now sitting on the shelf in my gunsafe, unused. A Vortex 1-4X Viper PST now rides on my BCM 16" Middy.

A lot of people overlook that a 1-#x variable scope can be just as fast as a red dot at CQB distances. But that same variable optic can be used to great advantage by LE and civilians alike when a closer look is needed to identify an obscured individual or what a potential threat is carrying in his/her hand...even at close distances. And with the 1-4x Viper, anything from 0 to 400 yards is mine all day long.
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Old August 14, 2017, 03:23 PM   #34
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Buy a 'cheaper' rifle for a time and decide what it is and is not. Then sell that and make one for yourself.

Triggers are VERY important if you want any kind of accuracy. You can put a good one in your cheap rifle and then remove put into your good one.
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Old August 14, 2017, 03:50 PM   #35
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Good advice from langenc. Especially regarding the trigger.

But do your research on single and two-stage triggers. I have both types, all from Wilson Combat. Don't ask me about echo/binary triggers though. I won't touch them with a 10-ft pole.
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Old August 14, 2017, 04:10 PM   #36
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I think most people go for a trigger upgrade, they're easy to swap. Just don't go too light if it's gonna see rough service. To me consistent and predictable are important in a trigger for me.
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Old August 14, 2017, 04:30 PM   #37
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rickyrick,

Agreed. I have gotten to use a bunch of aftermarket triggers over the years: Geissele, ALG, AR Gold, Timney etc. All of them are varying degrees of nice. Then I got to use a trigger from Wilson Combat.

My duty rifle is equipped with the LE/Mil trigger from Wilson Combat. It is a single-stage that breaks at 5.5lb pull...every...single...time. That may seem heavy, but is a beautiful heavy. Not only is the break ultra crisp, but it also has a very tactile and audible reset. I can only describe the break and the reset as...lovely. That word is what sprang into my mind the first time I used that trigger. No other trigger did that for me.

My competition rifle runs the two-stage TR-TTU-M2 trigger from WC.

A good trigger makes a world of difference.
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Old August 14, 2017, 04:32 PM   #38
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Effective range of an AR is mostly down to your skill level.

There are guys who shoot 1000yds with iron sights.

Red dots are fast, and designed for ease of use with fast acquisition. That is why I recommend them for HD... They are basically good for anything iron sights are good for, but are faster and easier to use, with increased field of view with less obstructions.

I will go over low power scopes later when I get home.

As far as triggers... The enhanced mil spec triggers are not bad. Good for most people. A big improvement over a standard mil spec.

I have one in my 22lr AR... It's not as nice as my Geisseles or MBT, but it cost less than half of those.

I don't like a crisp single stage with not a lot of movement for a HD rifle. I like a nice two stage in the 5-5.5lb range.

Last edited by marine6680; August 14, 2017 at 06:06 PM.
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Old August 14, 2017, 05:33 PM   #39
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My best "regular" trigger came in a CMMG lower parts kit. I've tried a few of the "enhanced mil-spec" triggers with mixed results. ALG QMS is ok, but the PSA enhanced doesn't seem much different. This could be me, just my experience with them. I have a Geissele and it's divine... expensive but nice.
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Old August 14, 2017, 07:15 PM   #40
marine6680
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CMMG kit triggers are the best standard mil spec trigger I have tried.

An ALG ACT is still an improvement over the CMMG, and a big improvement over most other standard mil spec triggers.

The BCM enhanced trigger is similar to the ACT in feel. The PSA is closer to a CMMG, better than their standard triggers, but not as good as a BCM or ACT... But it is cheaper than the ACT or BCM.



Now for more info on the low power scopes...

First thing, I don't recommend anything over a 6x max magnification. Most 1-8x are larger and much heavier than the 1-4/6x, and 8x severely reduces field of view.

Remember that most scopes do not include a mount, and a decent QD mount will cost you at least $100, with good quality mounts being $150+...

Unfortunately, the difficulties in making a scope capable of 1x and magnification, make them more expensive than their low power would otherwise suggest.

Glass quality plays a much bigger role in magnified optics as well... Poor glass, under magnification, will cause distortion or otherwise poor image quality. Just look through a cheap $50 scope, and you will see a cloudy/murky image with distortion around the edges... Cheap glass sucks.

I'm not saying you need to spend $1000+ on a scope to get something good... But I personally feel that when it comes to 1-4/6x scopes, most under $300 are not something I would want to use. The glass quality just isn't there. And that is taking in account the smaller/less prominent names, who tend to make a bit better scope than their price suggests.

The big names usually cost a couple hundred more for similar glass quality. Often times though, with the bigger name brands, you tend to get a more refined scope overall for that price premium.

All that is another reason I prefer red dot sights, unless you just need the magnification... As a very high quality red dot can be had for a bit under $500... Where you are on the bottom rung of good, for most low power scopes, at that price.



Some available options...

Until a while back, the Vortex PST 1-4x was a very good scope for a little under $500. Unfortunately they discontinued that model, and now have a 1-6x version that costs more. It does give you 6x over the other's 4x, and some think the glass is better. My Vortex PST 1-4x, was similar in glass quality to my Trijicon accupower. Overall quality of the trijicon was better, just more refined on the whole, but it cost $650 on sale.

Below the new gen II PST, they introduced the Strike Eagle 1-6x... Around $325. Many like it, but many also say the glass isn't as good as the Gen I PST was.

The Gen 3 Primary Arms 1-6x is well liked, and is around $300... Probably the one I would recommend in the sub $500 price range, if you need to keep the optic and mount under the $500 price. Glass quality is pretty good for under the $500 price point.

SWFA also has a 1-4x that people seem to like well, for $400. SWFA has glass quality much better than their prices would suggest.


Many companies, including the big names like Nikon and Leopold, make a 1-4/6x scope. All in different price ranges, like the lower end Bushnell's at $200ish, on up to $2000. Bushnell actually spans that range in their lineup.


The reticles are all different, and that matters... As how they are to be used differs as well. So you need to pick up a scope with a reticle design you feel fits your shooting style best.


Also, keep in mind specs like eyebox size and eye relief... The larger the eyebox, and the longer the eye relief, the better usually. As that makes the scope more forgiving and easier to use.



If you are willing to go up to $700, that opens up more options... Trijicon, The Gen II PST, even Steiner (a high end German scope maker) has a model under $700...



As far as a good QD mount goes... Larue is well liked, as well as American Defense, and Midwest industries. Brobo mounts are real nice high end, that don't require adjustments to fit properly, but also cost a lot more than the other brands.

Larue often offers combo packages that include their mount with the optic, for the same price, or at a small increase in price, over the bare scope.



I still feel that for any rifle that is going to be put into a home defense role, should use a red dot...

You don't need magnification indoors, and shooting past 25yds in a defense situation, even when outdoors is rare... Past 50yds is near unheard of... As the case for "self defense" gets more iffy as the distances grow. Not saying there can't be legitimate need of self defense at 100yds, but its going to be an uphill battle in court.
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Old August 14, 2017, 10:01 PM   #41
kevra1983
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Join Date: August 9, 2017
Posts: 11
Well, pulled the trigger on the BCM lower today. Got the Mod 4 charging handle. I might go with a different bolt carrier. I got it with the enhanced trigger, so which is I'd say good for now. I was playing around with the Aimpoint pro while I was in the store. Quite surprisingly, the prices for the upper and bolt carrier's are pretty well priced. I mean they have the upper for only about $619.99. Of course that's without bolt carrier and charging handle.

Talking about glass quality, the gun store employee did mention that too. I noticed some guy was looking for a really inexpensive scope for just target shooting. For now, I'll wait on the upper, optic, and bolt carrier. I'll get the rest in a few weeks. But with all your guys information, I have a good idea on what direction to go as far as optics go.
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Old August 14, 2017, 10:09 PM   #42
marine6680
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When you order the upper online, you can add the BCG... They are $160.

Most high end BCGs cost that much or more.

An Aero runs around $125, and a PSA runs around $100.


Unless you are just wanting to save the money... Order the upper with a BCG, as the factory will check headspace of the bolt for you, before they send it out. While unlikely that there will be a headspace issue with an AR bolt, it can happen, so a check is nice.
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