Carry in NYC under H.R. 882?

Nickel Plated · January 6, 2012, 01:18 AM

Just have a question about H.R. 882 (The national reciprocity bill)

As many may know, N.Y.C. technically allows CCW to anyone who holds a NYC Carry Permit (which is separate from a NYS carry permit, which is not valid in NYC) However, as far as the government is concerned, noone has a "good reason" to get the permit, making it effectively a ban in anything but name.

Now from what I understand, certain states issue Non-Resident Permits to people who do not actually reside in that state. Under H.R. 882 since all permits would be valid anywhere in the country where CCW is allowed (which is in NYC technically) Could a NYC resident get a Non-Resident Permit from a different state and use it to carry in NYC?

Would be an interesting way to stick it to Bloomy.

Glenn Dee · January 6, 2012, 06:02 AM

King Bloomburg also refuse to honor HR218 (LEOSA?). Retired police officers have had their firearms confiscated by NYPD. You have to understand that Bloomburg truely believes that he's king of NY and there is no power above his... The man is a control freak.

AirForceShooter · January 6, 2012, 07:05 AM

NYC and the Port Authority have also refiused to recognize FOPA.
They have been warned by the US Justice Dept. a number of times.

AFS

**Spats McGee** · January 6, 2012, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickel Plated

. . . .Under H.R. 882 since all permits would be valid anywhere in the country where CCW is allowed (which is in NYC technically) Could a NYC resident get a Non-Resident Permit from a different state and use it to carry in NYC?

I don't have the text of the bill in front of me, but I think the answer is, "no." As I recall, the bill contains language to the effect of "other than a resident." So a NYC resident would still have to get a NYC permit, but someone with an out-of-state residence & permit could CCW.

Nickel Plated · January 6, 2012, 09:45 AM

Yeah Bloomberg does have a history of just telling the law to go suck eggs and cramming his agenda through anyway.

Quote:

So a NYC resident would still have to get a NYC permit, but someone with an out-of-state residence & permit could CCW.

I love haw NYC treats it's tourists better than it's citizens.

**Spats McGee** · January 6, 2012, 10:01 AM

I've underlined the specific text:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Congress

(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that--

‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or

‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

So, to shorten it up: a person who is not prohibited by Federal law . . . who is carrying a valid identification . . .and a valid license or permit . . . . which permits the person to carry . . . ., may possess or carry a concealed handgun . . . .in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that--

**Aguila Blanca** · January 6, 2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spats McGee

I don't have the text of the bill in front of me, but I think the answer is, "no." As I recall, the bill contains language to the effect of "other than a resident." So a NYC resident would still have to get a NYC permit, but someone with an out-of-state residence & permit could CCW.

I don't think HR 822 would require a NYC resident to get a NYC permit -- but there's no other way for a NYC resident to get a NYS permit, so it's a circular argument. But the original question was about carrying in NYC with a non-resident permit from another state. I didn't catch on that the question was seeking a loophole for NYC residents. Either way, as I read the text of the proposed law it was based on having a valid home state permit, so a non-wesident permit from some place like Florida or Utah would not help a NYC resident OR a Chicago resident to carry in NYC.

kraigwy · January 6, 2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

King Bloomburg also refuse to honor HR218 (LEOSA?). Retired police officers have had their firearms confiscated by NYPD.

I'd like to see more on this. My understanding that those carrying per the LEOSA have no problems in NYC. Too many cities got burned violating that law.

jimbob86 · January 6, 2012, 11:49 AM

If a non-resident permit will work in NYC, then there will be more Utah permits for NYC residents than in Utah.....

Quote:

NYC and the Port Authority have also refiused to recognize FOPA.
They have been warned by the US Justice Dept. a number of times.

If the Feudal Lords of NYC have ignored FOPA (since 1986) and LEOSA (since 2004?) ..... just what makes anybody think anything passed/ruled on in Washington DC will mean anything? Short of throwing some of them in a Fed pen (yeah, like that's gonna happen!)?

It is the beginning of the end, friends, when the .gov is enforcing it's laws based on how easily the lawbreakers are to convince that they need to folow the law..... when the Public sees that they can ignore the law and get away with it just by sheer determination ...... that's the end of Civil Government.

maestro pistolero · January 6, 2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:
King Bloomburg also refuse to honor HR218 (LEOSA?). Retired police officers have had their firearms confiscated by NYPD.

Quote:

I'd like to see more on this. My understanding that those carrying per the LEOSA have no problems in NYC. Too many cities got burned violating that law.

Me, too. That would be a difficult policy to maintain, even for Bloomberg.

If this legislation passes, I would absolutely volunteer to be a test case. I think a publicized CCW march through Manhattan with a few thousand people would make the point very well.

kraigwy · January 6, 2012, 01:26 PM

Ref: the LEOSA, there is an outfit out of NJ made up of lawyers and cops that go around the country educating departments and officers (retired and otherwise) on the LEOSA.

Sheepdog Academy. Their website offers education material and court cases. No City or State has faired very well in violating the rights under the LEOSA.

I'm not sure, but it would seem to me if HR 882 passed local departments would find themselves in the same boat.

Don P · January 6, 2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

I'd like to see more on this. My understanding that those carrying per the LEOSA have no problems in NYC. Too many cities got burned violating that law.

I don't want to be a test case. Being a former New Yorker I have absolutely no desire to spend any time in the Tombs or Rikers Island while the mess gets sorted out.

Quote:

If this legislation passes, I would absolutely volunteer to be a test case. I think a publicized CCW march through Manhattan with a few thousand people would make the point very well.

A night in the Tombs or Rikers would change that thought.

Crazy88Fingers · January 6, 2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

If this legislation passes, I would absolutely volunteer to be a test case. I think a publicized CCW march through Manhattan with a few thousand people would make the point very well.

Before you do that, keep in mind how the NYPD has been treating unarmed "occupiers".

langenc · January 6, 2012, 02:43 PM

As I have posted before-just stay out of NYC and NY..

ammo.crafter · January 6, 2012, 02:48 PM

You mean the Bloomburg that singlehandedly disregarded the NYC laws and allowed himself the right to serve a third term as King of NYC?

Glenn Dee · January 7, 2012, 03:49 AM

Yes Crafter.... thats the guy.

Jim March · January 7, 2012, 05:07 AM

If this federal bill passes, the really interesting case is Illinois.

That state claims to have no CCW system, therefore they skip the whole "let visitors pack" thing.

Except they're lying. IL *does* have a CCW system - the most elitist, restrictive in the nation.

All you have to do is get elected to high office, such as a Chicago City Alderman, and you get what they *claim* is a "law enforcement power" to pack.

Except they're lying about that too. Check the IL constitution - go find it, and search on the word "separation". Yup - just like the federal constitution, there's a separation of powers clause that says you cannot be both legislative and executive branch.

Alderman is legislative, at a local level of government. So they're packing on a CCW system.

So, if this passes, yeah, we'll be able to pack in IL assuming we're willing to challenge their fraudulent "no CCW here" claims.

Paul B. · January 7, 2012, 03:10 PM

Maybe this will help. It's kept pretty well up to date. It's easy to work. Just follow the instructions.

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html

Paul B.

January 6, 2012, 01:18 AM	#1
Nickel Plated Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 610	Carry in NYC under H.R. 882? Just have a question about H.R. 882 (The national reciprocity bill) As many may know, N.Y.C. technically allows CCW to anyone who holds a NYC Carry Permit (which is separate from a NYS carry permit, which is not valid in NYC) However, as far as the government is concerned, noone has a "good reason" to get the permit, making it effectively a ban in anything but name. Now from what I understand, certain states issue Non-Resident Permits to people who do not actually reside in that state. Under H.R. 882 since all permits would be valid anywhere in the country where CCW is allowed (which is in NYC technically) Could a NYC resident get a Non-Resident Permit from a different state and use it to carry in NYC? Would be an interesting way to stick it to Bloomy.

January 6, 2012, 07:05 AM	#3
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,296	NYC and the Port Authority have also refiused to recognize FOPA. They have been warned by the US Justice Dept. a number of times. AFS __________________ 'Qui tacet consentit': To remain silent is to consent.

January 6, 2012, 01:26 PM	#11
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Ref: the LEOSA, there is an outfit out of NJ made up of lawyers and cops that go around the country educating departments and officers (retired and otherwise) on the LEOSA. Sheepdog Academy. Their website offers education material and court cases. No City or State has faired very well in violating the rights under the LEOSA. I'm not sure, but it would seem to me if HR 882 passed local departments would find themselves in the same boat. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

January 6, 2012, 02:48 PM	#15
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	Bloomburg You mean the Bloomburg that singlehandedly disregarded the NYC laws and allowed himself the right to serve a third term as King of NYC? __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

January 7, 2012, 05:07 AM	#17
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	If this federal bill passes, the really interesting case is Illinois. That state claims to have no CCW system, therefore they skip the whole "let visitors pack" thing. Except they're lying. IL does have a CCW system - the most elitist, restrictive in the nation. All you have to do is get elected to high office, such as a Chicago City Alderman, and you get what they claim is a "law enforcement power" to pack. Except they're lying about that too. Check the IL constitution - go find it, and search on the word "separation". Yup - just like the federal constitution, there's a separation of powers clause that says you cannot be both legislative and executive branch. Alderman is legislative, at a local level of government. So they're packing on a CCW system. So, if this passes, yeah, we'll be able to pack in IL assuming we're willing to challenge their fraudulent "no CCW here" claims. __________________ Jim March

January 6, 2012, 06:02 AM	#2
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	King Bloomburg also refuse to honor HR218 (LEOSA?). Retired police officers have had their firearms confiscated by NYPD. You have to understand that Bloomburg truely believes that he's king of NY and there is no power above his... The man is a control freak.

January 6, 2012, 02:43 PM	#14
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	As I have posted before-just stay out of NYC and NY..

January 7, 2012, 03:49 AM	#16
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	Yes Crafter.... thats the guy.

January 7, 2012, 03:10 PM	#18
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	Maybe this will help. It's kept pretty well up to date. It's easy to work. Just follow the instructions. http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!