45 LC 200gr. semi wadcutter

One hole · February 1, 2017, 08:28 AM

Thinking of loading some 200 gr. swc for henry rifle but the bullets I have do not have a crimping groove. Can I crimp into leading edge of lube groove?

**44 AMP** · February 1, 2017, 07:15 PM

I don't know any reason why you couldn't, BUT, there might be one, simply because revolver bullets have separate crimp grooves. There must be a reason for that, though I don't know exactly what it is...

The bullet you are thinking of is a .45ACP bullet. Which, of course is taper crimped. It works tolerably well in .45 Colt revolvers, roll crimping over the forward shoulder of the bullet, and the lighter loads for this slug does well enough to prevent bullet pull (aka crimp jump).

In a tube magazine rifle, the force on the slug goes the other way, mostly. Rounds in the magazine slam backwards under spring pressure when you feed a round from the carrier/lifter into the chamber.

This can be a pretty good force pushing the bullet INTO the case. so a crimp over the front driving band of the bullet isn't much help for that.

The only drawback I can think of, of crimping into the grease groove is, that the grease has to go somewhere...and if it doesn't go out, then it has to go in, right?? (could it bulge the case?? I don't know, never tried it myself)

You might also single load them, uncrimped or crimped over the front band, to see if they shoot worth a darn. They might not. Sometimes the rifles are very picky about what bullets they like.

**Unclenick** · February 1, 2017, 07:32 PM

If the bullets are not super hard, you can do what the old school 45 Auto competitors used to do, and that is to roll crimp into the bullet bearing surface below the shoulder of the ogive. I know, I know, 45 Auto is supposed to headspace on the case mouth. However, better accuracy and less leading result if you headspace on the bullet's contact with the the throat or at least to roll the crimp low enough that the gun headspaces on the extractor hook, but that shoulder is started into the throat. It's about alignment.

An ideal die to do this with today is the Redding Profile Crimp die. It is a taper crimp that terminates in a roll crimp at the mouth. That way you can roll the crimp in quite firmly while the taper prevents the sides of the case from bulging outward under the forming pressure.

Billglass · February 1, 2017, 08:34 PM

Uncle nick
Since you brought it up again here.....I'll ask here
I've read several of your posts about headspacing 45acp lead bullets on the bullet

Does that increase pressure to the point where the starting load should be reduced?
I believe you've mentioned that it reduces gas escaping around the bullet..increasing pressure and that there is also a decrease in pressure due to the extra case volume.

Do the increase and decrease of pressure offset each other?
I've seen the scary 30-06 graph which shows the highest pressure 0.0 off the lands

Thanks in advance!

One hole · February 5, 2017, 03:56 PM

Thanks for the input ! think I'll stick with 255 gr. swc in the Henry rifle and try these 200 Gr swc in my Ruger with a lite crimp on the band. again thanks.

February 1, 2017, 08:28 AM	#1
One hole Junior Member Join Date: January 14, 2017 Posts: 10	45 LC 200gr. semi wadcutter Thinking of loading some 200 gr. swc for henry rifle but the bullets I have do not have a crimping groove. Can I crimp into leading edge of lube groove? Last edited by One hole; February 1, 2017 at 11:45 AM. Reason: spelling

February 1, 2017, 07:15 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	I don't know any reason why you couldn't, BUT, there might be one, simply because revolver bullets have separate crimp grooves. There must be a reason for that, though I don't know exactly what it is... The bullet you are thinking of is a .45ACP bullet. Which, of course is taper crimped. It works tolerably well in .45 Colt revolvers, roll crimping over the forward shoulder of the bullet, and the lighter loads for this slug does well enough to prevent bullet pull (aka crimp jump). In a tube magazine rifle, the force on the slug goes the other way, mostly. Rounds in the magazine slam backwards under spring pressure when you feed a round from the carrier/lifter into the chamber. This can be a pretty good force pushing the bullet INTO the case. so a crimp over the front driving band of the bullet isn't much help for that. The only drawback I can think of, of crimping into the grease groove is, that the grease has to go somewhere...and if it doesn't go out, then it has to go in, right?? (could it bulge the case?? I don't know, never tried it myself) You might also single load them, uncrimped or crimped over the front band, to see if they shoot worth a darn. They might not. Sometimes the rifles are very picky about what bullets they like. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 1, 2017, 07:32 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	If the bullets are not super hard, you can do what the old school 45 Auto competitors used to do, and that is to roll crimp into the bullet bearing surface below the shoulder of the ogive. I know, I know, 45 Auto is supposed to headspace on the case mouth. However, better accuracy and less leading result if you headspace on the bullet's contact with the the throat or at least to roll the crimp low enough that the gun headspaces on the extractor hook, but that shoulder is started into the throat. It's about alignment. An ideal die to do this with today is the Redding Profile Crimp die. It is a taper crimp that terminates in a roll crimp at the mouth. That way you can roll the crimp in quite firmly while the taper prevents the sides of the case from bulging outward under the forming pressure. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 1, 2017, 08:34 PM	#4
Billglass Member Join Date: June 27, 2015 Posts: 38	Uncle nick Since you brought it up again here.....I'll ask here I've read several of your posts about headspacing 45acp lead bullets on the bullet Does that increase pressure to the point where the starting load should be reduced? I believe you've mentioned that it reduces gas escaping around the bullet..increasing pressure and that there is also a decrease in pressure due to the extra case volume. Do the increase and decrease of pressure offset each other? I've seen the scary 30-06 graph which shows the highest pressure 0.0 off the lands Thanks in advance! Last edited by Billglass; February 2, 2017 at 08:40 AM.

February 5, 2017, 03:56 PM	#5
One hole Junior Member Join Date: January 14, 2017 Posts: 10	Thanks for the input ! think I'll stick with 255 gr. swc in the Henry rifle and try these 200 Gr swc in my Ruger with a lite crimp on the band. again thanks.