Carrying first shot as a blank

[OhioGuy]

Here's a tactical question...wondering if anyone has heard of this before...

I just had a random conversation with a guy in a gun shop last week about CCW, and he said that he carries his gun chambered with a blank as his first shot. His philosophy was twofold:

1. Keeping the first shot as a blank is some insurance against pulling the trigger out of some startled response (which happens) and shooting too soon

2. It allows him to deliberately fire a warning shot that can't hurt anyone but might scare off a robber or intruder.

Asked what he'd do if he knew he'd have to shoot for real, he said "shoot twice real damn fast."

Gotta admit it's an interesting concept.

Thoughts?

[Lohman446]

In MI there is no such thing as a warning shot. If you fire your firearm in defense of yourself you better have been justified to us lethal force. By the time you recognize the situation, are in a position where lethal force is justified, and manage to get your firearm into use from a concealed position you are already very lucky. I understand some people carry and practice from condition 3 (empty chamber) - if I was concerned enough about a negligent or accidental discharge to justify a blank I would strongly suggest condition 3 as an alternative.

As an aside - I doubt having a blank go off accidentally in a holstered firearm would be a pleasant experience.

[OhioGuy]

I think he was more concerned about pulling the trigger while it was aimed at someone--maybe he's thinking it's kind of a last safeguard against actually shooting someone who didn't have to be shot? Not so much about discharging it in a holster.

A blank will still cycle the slide...right? (I've never used one).

[gbclarkson]

Does he honk the horn before slamming on the brakes?

Firing nothing in a situation requiring firing a gun seems like an opportunity to be first to be shot.

I too don't know much about blanks in pistols. I know that rifles require muzzle adapters and I have seen blank firing pistols. Will a blank cycle the action in a pistol designed for projectiles? Does he use a revolver? Maybe a revolver with a stiff trigger is what he needs.

[ammo.crafter]

Sounds like he's watched too many TV movies...sort of like the Lone Ranger shooting a gun from the hand of an outlaw.

His "theory" is ridiculous and its very nature states he should reconsider carrying a gun until he has the requisite confidence and ability.

[K_Mac]

Anyone who has had even a little training knows that survival in a self-defense situation where lethal force is used is almost always based on fast, accurate shot placement. Once you pull a gun, empty or loaded with blanks, lethal force is in play. That is not to say that just presenting a gun won't stop the fight. Just don't bet your life on it.

I know a couple of guys who carry condition 3, one who thinks it is the only safe way to carry and another who thinks just producing a handgun is enough to stop the fight. I have tried to help to no avail. The fear of carrying a weapon, or the fear of pulling the trigger accidentally must be addressed by proper training and practice. Carrying an unloaded gun (including blanks) is a very bad idea. Get the training and practice, or leave the gun at home.

[Ricklin]

I think carrying a blank in the pipe is a huge mistake. Tell your acquantiance to get some traini ng.
One of the worst "ideas" I have heard.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

....I just had a random conversation with a guy in a gun shop last week about CCW, and he said that he carries his gun chambered with a blank as his first shot....

One more example about why one must be extremely skeptical about anything mentioned by some guy in a gun shop.

No, a blank will not cycle a semi-auto.

And it's also a lousy idea for the reasons already mentioned.

[Lohman446]

I know a couple of guys who carry condition 3, one who thinks it is the only safe way to carry and another who thinks just producing a handgun is enough to stop the fight.

While I think condition 1 is preferable I don't think condition 3 is untenable WITH PRACTICE.

[Theohazard]

That's an absolutely terrible idea.That guy should not be carrying a firearm at all.

First, it puts the carrier in the mindset that he's carrying a non-lethal weapon, since -- for the first shot -- that's essentially what it is. But it's not a non-lethal weapon after that first shot, so the mindset and tactics for using that weapon change entirely after that blank is fired. That adds a tremendous amount of complication to an already stressful situation.

Second, the idea of any kind of warning shot is a terrible idea. In this case, there's a lot less concern over collateral damage, but that's not the only issue. Here's the thing: A proper claim of self-defense involves being able to convince the police, a prosecutor, and/or a jury that you believed you were in danger of losing your life or suffering grave bodily harm. But if you actually believed your life was in danger at that moment, why was the initial response to shoot a blank? Is it possible that the shooting wasn't justified and instead was just an accidental manslaughter? Maybe you were just being harassed and decided to scare them away with a blank and instead accidentally shot twice. I've heard of cases where a person fired warning shots and that called into question their whole claim of self-defense. (I'd be interested to hear Frank's take on this part, since I'm not a lawyer and he is.)

And third, the OP referred to carrying that blank "chambered", which leads me to believe it's a semi-auto. But, like others have mentioned, semi-auto pistols don't function with blanks unless they're heavily modified, and that modification would make the gun non-functional with normal ammo. So this guy is not only carrying a blank as his first shot, but he's also made it so he'll be required to clear a stoppage after that first shot. Idiotic.

[T. O'Heir]

No, a blank will not cycle a semi-auto.
Thought it was too small.
"...safeguard against actually shooting someone who didn't have to be shot..." Kinda wondering if the guy actually did any CCW training. If the BG doesn't need shooting, don't draw your firearm.

[P5 Guy]

Well, a warning shot is legal in Florida. I do not think that tactic is for me.

[Pahoo]

I think he was more concerned about pulling the trigger while it was aimed at someone

Then perhaps he should not carry but that is his choice and MHO. He is playing a fool's game. I have heard some inter-city folks suggest that our LEO's should consider such actions and frankly, that is going to put everyone at risk. .....

A good friend of mine, is paranoid about carrying, mainly because he has a drinking problem. I sometimes think that he is more afraid of shooting someone than being shot. Might add that in Iowa, you are allowed to carry, in establishments that serves liquor. Yes, bars !!!

Be Safe !!!

[James K]

That idea is in the same category as a "warning" shot. If you have to shoot someone, you have to shoot someone. Not "warn him" or offer a polite suggestion (on the proper stationery, of course) that he is doing something of which you strongly disapprove.

Other suggestions, such as shooting the gun out of the bad guy's hand, reminding him that his actions are contrary to the prevailing moral code, or suggesting anger management training also might not be adequately persuasive.

In other words, if you have to shoot someone, shoot him. Period.

And that is why training should be focused on both how and when to shoot and when not to shoot BEFORE firing a shot. After the first shot is fired, it is too late to worry about whether it should have been fired.

Jim

[Old Bill Dibble]

IDK, if you can shoot the bad guy's gun out if his hand I think that is aces. He would either have to pick it up or switch to a different weapon if he wanted to keep fighting.




But the whole thing about blanks sounds like a good way to get yourself killed.

[TheGunGeek]

It sounds like he's carrying a striker fire pistol with a light trigger. The "fix" as others have said is not well thought out.

I normally carry double/single action Berettas with a safety. I've trained to click off the safety during draw, to the point it's now automatic. There is no way my pistol will go off without intent. I also have a small .380 which is DA only, however it's not a light trigger. It sounds like he/she needs to reevaluate their carry options.

In my State a warning shot is illegal, and can earn you a long mandatory jail sentence.

[Mike38]

Right or wrong, I have the mind set that if I draw my pistol, I'm going to use it. If the situation I'm in warrants drawing, I want real bullets, not just scaring someone.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Interestingly, the Dutch police way, way back when loaded revolvers with something like a blank, cork bullet, tear gas, rubber bullet and rear bullet.

This lead to the term "Dutch load" which we now see with folks who want to alternate fmj or HP in pistols or slugs and buck in shotguns.

I was in Cabela's and overhead a guy buying a pump as he wanted to scare the bad guy with a rack. He also wanted some blanks if the rack didn't work. The clerk suggested adding rubber buck after the blanks.

Puppies died in heaven on this one.

I suggest the person has not faced and answered the question of whether they could use lethal force. If you cannot, don't carry a gun. It is really an expression of fear and lack of ability.

[K_Mac]

Right or wrong, I have the mind set that if I draw my pistol, I'm going to use it.

This is the other end of the spectrum, with firing a warning shot or a blank at the other. If drawing your weapon stops the threat, anything more is unnecessary and objectively illegal. Again training is key. Using more or less force than needed is a very serious mistake.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The mind set is that if you draw the gun, you are able to use it - not that you will. K_Mac is correct.

It is an old cliche that if you draw you must shoot. You must be ready to shoot, if need by. You don't have to.

If you can't use it - then don't carry. The Tacoma Mall carrier came to ill as he failed that test.

[Capt Rick Hiott]

One of the worst "ideas" I have ever heard of

[849ACSO]

That has to be the mostest dumbest thing I've ever heard..............

You just can't make this stuff up.................

[sgms]

Agreed, a truly terrible, poorly thought out idea. It is the kind of idea you would expect to see come out of a committee. This person needs to do a bit of soul searching and decide what he is really willing to do to defend self and family.

[OhioGuy]

He never specifically said "semi-auto" so perhaps he does carry a revolver.

No clue.

Years ago when I had summer jobs in a computer story, "Some Guy" was always to blame when someone came in with an old floppy disk shoved into a CD drive or some other goofy problem. So I don't intend to take "Some Guy's" advice on guns either

Just thought I'd ask since I never heard of such a thing before and I'm still pretty new to it all.

[Deaf Smith]

Blanks are not harmless. They have killed several people, including a soap opera actor on the set.

2. It allows him to deliberately fire a warning shot that can't hurt anyone but might scare off a robber or intruder.

And if the intruder fires back thinking you shot at them?

Nope, the gun is a deadly weapon. Use it as such.

Deaf