Am I the first ever ???

Metal god · July 23, 2019, 12:58 AM

2 powder measures and 2 seating dies loading 223/5.56

I've always prepped all my cases ahead of time including priming them by hand . I've always loaded all my rifle cartridges on a single stage but then a little while ago I got to thinking . I have all these cases ready to be charged what if I just doubled up the powder throws and seaters on my LCT press . I could charge and seat twice as fast as I can on a single stage . Turns out once set up it's faster then twice as fast then a single stage . I think I like it .

std7mag · July 23, 2019, 03:12 AM

Yes, yes you are....

Not sure if first is a good or bad case in this instance.

But, yup... First....

Unique · July 23, 2019, 10:20 AM

As long as you’re happy.

**Unclenick** · July 23, 2019, 10:46 AM

Just keep an eye peeled for charge weight variation. No two measures will ever have the exact same average throw weight, nor will any two seating dies have the exact same setting. But you just need to come close enough. Especially if you are not trying to produce adequate vs. super-precise ammo. Interesting idea. You may well be the first.

Metal god · July 23, 2019, 11:21 AM

It worked really well and UN you are correct . Out of the 100 I loaded I likely have a .4gr ES in powder charges but these are my plinking AR loads . I have loads worked up at 25 and 25.5 gr using H335 and 55gr FMJ . Out of the first 50 rounds loaded I weighed 30+ of them so 15 from each measurer . I was pretty much getting 25 to 25.2gr charges +/- .1 here and there , meaning 24.9 to 25.3 and I was ok with that . I also weighed both measurers every 10rds after that so really every 5th throw each . The new auto drum started leaking real bad right at the end with 7 rounds to go . Kind of expected until you get them dialed in perfect . I finished those last ones with the single powder measure . Seating depth seemed to be pretty spot on and even if it wasn't I'm like a mile off the lands . All and all it worked just fine .

I will add that the red powder hopper parts don't fit perfect on the head . There's not quite enough room do to the main bodies sitting so close together on the tool head . When installed they push each other apart from one another putting some stress at the base but not all that much . This did not appear to effect anything as far as operation .

When I was not weighing the charges it went really fast I thought . One of the hardest things to remember was not to do that 3rd stroke on the LCT press . I've been doing four pulls of the handle for so long I just naturally wanted to keep going haha .

mikld · July 23, 2019, 11:23 AM

I may be dense, but how can this set up be twice as fast with only one shell being loaded at a time? Or is the "speed" from only indexing twice per cartridge? I owned a Lee turret for over 25 years and just hand indexed it to suit my batch reloading style...

But, yes, I would say you're the first...

cw308 · July 23, 2019, 12:29 PM

Metal
I'll stick with my single stage RockChucker .

Unique · July 23, 2019, 10:34 PM

I’ll second post number 7.

buck460XVR · July 24, 2019, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikld

I may be dense, but how can this set up be twice as fast with only one shell being loaded at a time? Or is the "speed" from only indexing twice per cartridge?

......kinda where I was at.

Metal god · July 24, 2019, 10:45 AM

Twice as fast as loading on s single stage where you need to switch dies and do batch's of each stage . I only need to grab a case once for two stages rather then grab the case charge it put it back in the case tray and change dies out then grab the case again put it in the press seat the bullet take the case out of the press put it in the ammo box . I’m actually a bit surprised some don’t see the speed abvantage over a single stage . If you can’t , it must mean you don’t understand the speed advantages of the turret press over a single stage period .

mikld · July 24, 2019, 11:03 AM

I used a Lee turret press for 25 years. Perhaps your explanation is off? My first impression was using two "set ups", two powder measures and two seating dies, on one turret gained some speed (?). Of course a turret is faster than a single stage, but two each powder measures and seating dies? FWIW, my batch loading was faster by hand indexing the turret...

Unique · July 24, 2019, 02:48 PM

Do you pull both handles on two different presses at same time ? ��
You go

jetinteriorguy · July 24, 2019, 03:48 PM

Charge with one pull, seat with one pull, replace brass, charge with one pull seat with one pull, remove finished bullet. Two bullets with four pulls. Of course this only works if your brass is fully processed and primed ahead of time. Good thinking if you ask me.

Metal god · July 24, 2019, 05:14 PM

Second sentence I wrote in this thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

I've always prepped all my cases ahead of time including priming them by hand

Quote:

Do you pull both handles on two different presses at same time ?

No , I'm not even sure of the point . Unless you are saying if I'm not pulling the handle less I can't be saving time ?? When I started loading pistol cartridges I started on a single stage press . I quickly moved to the Lee classic turret press which resulted in me cranking out ammo much faster . Err wait !! how can this be ??? I'm still pulling the handle the same amount of times

If you don't get it , you don't get it and I'm ok with that . For me and my process it is much quicker . If you all are just splitting hairs here and saying it's not twice as fast , fine I except that but it's still faster by a lot compared to how I was doing it .

labnoti · July 24, 2019, 07:36 PM

When I had a LCT, I charged off press, but I could put two seaters and two crimpers (FCD) and that would avoid cycling through the two empty stations. But then I ditched the LCT and switched to a ABLP and that was better for me. I may still only use two die stations on the ABLP, but the case feeder with collator and ejector makes it much more efficient and I don't have to buy double the number of dies.

I typically resize+deprime, then flare. I could do that with two resizing die and two expander dies on a LCT, but then I couldn't also use the ejectors for the LCT. So I would have neither a case feeder or an ejector.

Like you, I then clean and prime the brass off the press.

When it comes back on the press, it gets charged, seated and crimped or for rifle just charged and seated. Again, doubling up on a turret would work, but wouldn't provide the feeder or ejector.

buck460XVR · July 25, 2019, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal god

If you don't get it , you don't get it and I'm ok with that . For me and my process it is much quicker . If you all are just splitting hairs here and saying it's not twice as fast , fine I except that but it's still faster by a lot compared to how I was doing it .

Reloading is a lot about what works for you. Iffin' this works for you, you certainly don;t have to justify it to the rest of us. I guess the misunderstanding here is why two powder measures and two sets of seating dies is faster than just one each when only one shell holder is available.

Most folks who reload realize the increase in speed and ease from a turret over a SS is the idea you don't have to load in batches and don't have to handle the case itself as many times. One still has the same amount of pulls on the handle.

griz · July 25, 2019, 06:25 AM

Speaking for the puzzled among us, I think most see the advantage of a turret over a single stage. We're just wondering how two measures and two seating dies speeds things up over one of each.

**Unclenick** · July 25, 2019, 06:37 AM

Griz,

If you are doing your decapping and resizing as separate steps so you can trim before loading and you also prime separately (a common practice), then you have at hand a bunch of primed, prepped cases to charge and seat bullets in serially. If you also have an auto-indexing turret press with four stations, putting only one powder measure and seating die in it means that after charging and seating one round you will have to operate the handle twice more to index past the two empty stations. By putting an additional powder measure and seating die in those two positions, you have avoided the two unproductive handle operations, thereby speeding up the charging and bullet seating process.

griz · July 25, 2019, 12:18 PM

Thank you, that makes sense.

mikld · July 25, 2019, 01:39 PM

Auto indexing! I hand indexed and my method was very good (fast) for batch loading. Most of the time I did two or three steps at a time. One step, index, another step, index or stop and remove case. Index back to station one (just a twist of my wrist to "reverse" the turret), and repeat. I now see how Metal God's method may be faster; Auto Indexing....

July 23, 2019, 12:58 AM	#1
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	Am I the first ever ??? 2 powder measures and 2 seating dies loading 223/5.56 I've always prepped all my cases ahead of time including priming them by hand . I've always loaded all my rifle cartridges on a single stage but then a little while ago I got to thinking . I have all these cases ready to be charged what if I just doubled up the powder throws and seaters on my LCT press . I could charge and seat twice as fast as I can on a single stage . Turns out once set up it's faster then twice as fast then a single stage . I think I like it . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; July 24, 2019 at 06:21 PM.

July 23, 2019, 03:12 AM	#2
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Yes, yes you are.... Not sure if first is a good or bad case in this instance. But, yup... First.... __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

July 23, 2019, 10:46 AM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Just keep an eye peeled for charge weight variation. No two measures will ever have the exact same average throw weight, nor will any two seating dies have the exact same setting. But you just need to come close enough. Especially if you are not trying to produce adequate vs. super-precise ammo. Interesting idea. You may well be the first. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 23, 2019, 11:21 AM	#5
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	It worked really well and UN you are correct . Out of the 100 I loaded I likely have a .4gr ES in powder charges but these are my plinking AR loads . I have loads worked up at 25 and 25.5 gr using H335 and 55gr FMJ . Out of the first 50 rounds loaded I weighed 30+ of them so 15 from each measurer . I was pretty much getting 25 to 25.2gr charges +/- .1 here and there , meaning 24.9 to 25.3 and I was ok with that . I also weighed both measurers every 10rds after that so really every 5th throw each . The new auto drum started leaking real bad right at the end with 7 rounds to go . Kind of expected until you get them dialed in perfect . I finished those last ones with the single powder measure . Seating depth seemed to be pretty spot on and even if it wasn't I'm like a mile off the lands . All and all it worked just fine . I will add that the red powder hopper parts don't fit perfect on the head . There's not quite enough room do to the main bodies sitting so close together on the tool head . When installed they push each other apart from one another putting some stress at the base but not all that much . This did not appear to effect anything as far as operation . When I was not weighing the charges it went really fast I thought . One of the hardest things to remember was not to do that 3rd stroke on the LCT press . I've been doing four pulls of the handle for so long I just naturally wanted to keep going haha . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; July 23, 2019 at 12:15 PM.

July 23, 2019, 11:23 AM	#6
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	I may be dense, but how can this set up be twice as fast with only one shell being loaded at a time? Or is the "speed" from only indexing twice per cartridge? I owned a Lee turret for over 25 years and just hand indexed it to suit my batch reloading style... But, yes, I would say you're the first... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

July 23, 2019, 10:20 AM	#3
Unique Member Join Date: May 22, 2017 Location: Central Texas Posts: 67	As long as you’re happy.

July 23, 2019, 12:29 PM	#7
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Metal I'll stick with my single stage RockChucker .

July 23, 2019, 10:34 PM	#8
Unique Member Join Date: May 22, 2017 Location: Central Texas Posts: 67	I’ll second post number 7.

July 24, 2019, 10:45 AM	#10
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	Twice as fast as loading on s single stage where you need to switch dies and do batch's of each stage . I only need to grab a case once for two stages rather then grab the case charge it put it back in the case tray and change dies out then grab the case again put it in the press seat the bullet take the case out of the press put it in the ammo box . I’m actually a bit surprised some don’t see the speed abvantage over a single stage . If you can’t , it must mean you don’t understand the speed advantages of the turret press over a single stage period . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; July 24, 2019 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Fixed wording

July 24, 2019, 11:03 AM	#11
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	I used a Lee turret press for 25 years. Perhaps your explanation is off? My first impression was using two "set ups", two powder measures and two seating dies, on one turret gained some speed (?). Of course a turret is faster than a single stage, but two each powder measures and seating dies? FWIW, my batch loading was faster by hand indexing the turret... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

July 24, 2019, 02:48 PM	#12
Unique Member Join Date: May 22, 2017 Location: Central Texas Posts: 67	Do you pull both handles on two different presses at same time ? �� You go

July 24, 2019, 03:48 PM	#13
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	Charge with one pull, seat with one pull, replace brass, charge with one pull seat with one pull, remove finished bullet. Two bullets with four pulls. Of course this only works if your brass is fully processed and primed ahead of time. Good thinking if you ask me.

July 24, 2019, 07:36 PM	#15
labnoti Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2018 Posts: 252	When I had a LCT, I charged off press, but I could put two seaters and two crimpers (FCD) and that would avoid cycling through the two empty stations. But then I ditched the LCT and switched to a ABLP and that was better for me. I may still only use two die stations on the ABLP, but the case feeder with collator and ejector makes it much more efficient and I don't have to buy double the number of dies. I typically resize+deprime, then flare. I could do that with two resizing die and two expander dies on a LCT, but then I couldn't also use the ejectors for the LCT. So I would have neither a case feeder or an ejector. Like you, I then clean and prime the brass off the press. When it comes back on the press, it gets charged, seated and crimped or for rifle just charged and seated. Again, doubling up on a turret would work, but wouldn't provide the feeder or ejector. Last edited by labnoti; July 24, 2019 at 07:43 PM.

July 25, 2019, 06:25 AM	#17
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	Speaking for the puzzled among us, I think most see the advantage of a turret over a single stage. We're just wondering how two measures and two seating dies speeds things up over one of each.

July 25, 2019, 06:37 AM	#18
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Griz, If you are doing your decapping and resizing as separate steps so you can trim before loading and you also prime separately (a common practice), then you have at hand a bunch of primed, prepped cases to charge and seat bullets in serially. If you also have an auto-indexing turret press with four stations, putting only one powder measure and seating die in it means that after charging and seating one round you will have to operate the handle twice more to index past the two empty stations. By putting an additional powder measure and seating die in those two positions, you have avoided the two unproductive handle operations, thereby speeding up the charging and bullet seating process. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 25, 2019, 12:18 PM	#19
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	Thank you, that makes sense.

July 25, 2019, 01:39 PM	#20
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Auto indexing! I hand indexed and my method was very good (fast) for batch loading. Most of the time I did two or three steps at a time. One step, index, another step, index or stop and remove case. Index back to station one (just a twist of my wrist to "reverse" the turret), and repeat. I now see how Metal God's method may be faster; Auto Indexing.... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...