Shiloh 1874 Sharps, anything I should NOT do first?

[M88]

Originally Posted by NoSecondBest

Depending on how well the gun was cleaned, how much cleaning residue was left in the barrel, and the type of bullet being used, variation can, and usually does occur. Some guns are worse than others. Some don't exhibit this hardly at all.

OK, that sorta makes sense... hard to comprehend that minuscule amount of cleaning solvent left in a barrel would make much difference, but... it is easier to comprehend that after a couple shots a certain amount of residue left by the first couple bullets, as well as the barrel being warmed up by those rounds, will affect the following shots. Interesting.

[Jim Watson]

In BPCR silhouette or target, your sighter shots are as much to foul the barrel as to check sight settings.
Some shooters blow tube between shots, some wipe every shot. Whatever you do, it must be The Same every time.

[NoSecondBest]

Jim Watson kind of hit the nail on the head. Best accuracy is generally with a barrel that's had a fouling shot or two fired before going for group. Too dirty isn't good, too clean (first shot after cleaning) isn't either.

[M88]

I seem to be saying this to myself almost every day now... but... I'm 65 and.. the older I get the more I realize how much I DON'T know. Thanks guys.

[reinert]

Generally on my Shilohs...

I have two Shilohs, the first one I got is a 45/70 Hartford model (standard oct. 30" barrel), and during the waiting time from when I put in my order (less than 2 years on mine), I started acquiring what I needed to shoot the rifle solely as a B.P.C.R. When I got to Big Timber to get the rifle, Kirk Bryan gave me a tutorial on the basic care and feeding, and also gave me a box of 50, 530 grn. Saeco bullets, already greased. I already had all the rest of the stuff needed to load my own rounds. Also during that build waiting time, I was lucky to have buddies who gave me loading advice, and when I finally took the rifle to the range, I had good ammo, and a good time shooting it, along with the blow tube I made, which you'll need if you shoot grease groove bullets. Or, what's big now, is the wiping between shots procedure. I cast my own alloyed bullets these days, but that's a whole other discussion.

As has already been mentioned, get on the Shiloh forum (register so you can do the search engine) and you'll find ANYTHING you'll need to know regarding the care and feeding of a B.P.C.R., especially a Shiloh. And BTW, I got my Hartford back in 2001; my hunting Sharps, and it's proven itself in the field many times.

You've got a beautiful new rifle, and FWIW, t'were me, I'd wait before shooting it until I got the proper, well made ammo that it deserves to run through it, and that's black powder and cast bullets. Personally, I DO NOT use any kind of brush through the bore; lots of cotton patches, with the proper jag, instead (and bore guide in the chamber). I forget what the solution ratio to a gallon of water is as I type this out, but I use the vinegar based Windex all purpose cleaner in a gallon of water; works very well, but just plain water works very well for basic fouling in the bore, too.

For lead removal, and you'll have some to deal with regardless what some will say, study a bit and try some things before you settle on a lead removal product. I bought a good supply of Shiloh Creek Bore Solvent years ago, and find it very very good "to get the lead out." I believe they're out of business now, and when I run out, I'll have to find another source for solvent.

Those Sharps rifles were designed to shoot b.p. and lead alloy bullets. That's all I shoot in mine, and find it very accurate doing so. When shooting these types of rifles accurately, it's all about the right sized bullet/bore combo and powder fouling control, and that's just my opinion, nothing more. Wiping between shots, or blow tubing, and moisture in the air (or lack of it), is what you deal with when shooting a shot string on the line. And that's nothing more than my opinion, too.

I also have a Shiloh Long Range Express in 45/90 cal., and it weighs a bit over 12 pounds. I use it exclusively for a couple of matches on gongs out to 1000 yds. during the summer. With my loadings of b.p, and cast bullets for the rifle, doing my part off of cross-sticks (it's all about the wind), that rifle and load will consistently hit that 1k gong.

Work up a b.p. load for that fine new rifle of your'n, you won't be disappointed. The great thing is, you can looking at and fondle the thing while you're researching proper load data to feed it properly. There's not much more pleasing in the shooting world when you build proper ammo for a Sharps rife, and find it just as accurate as most anything else downrange.

And also as has been mentioned, be sure to bring the rifle to half-cock after firing before dropping the block. It's just a good habit to get into as you follow this trail with your Shiloh. I've been fortunate to have some good shooters who've given me good info during my initial learning curve; I hope the same for you. Have a great time with that new Shiloh, they are beautiful things. BTW, too, I turn 68 this year... maybe that's why I'm rambling a bit here...

[M88]

Thank you reinert for all that advice and encouragement. From what I've read and heard, making a the perfect round from scratch is indeed a learning curve. I'm looking forward to it, although at the moment don't have as much time for that as I will need. Patience is needed in the mean time. I'm fortunate to have a bro-in-law who also just acquired a Shiloh Sharps. He has been paper patching and pouring lead for his other guns for years and thus has lots of experience there. Unfortunately he lives a thousand miles away but we keep in touch and I will be picking his brain though the process. Thanks again for your encouragement.

[44 AMP]

they state that the first round or two after cleaning is often a "flyer". Why would the first round out of a clean barrel not be as accurate as ones following it? Like lots of things in life, this one seems backwards!

It actually normally is as accurate as the rounds following. It just goes to a slightly different place.

the very first shot (or maybe two) from a clean dry bore is one set of barrel conditions. Following shots, from the now "fouled" barrel are a SLIGHTLY different set of conditions, and its usually enough to change the point of impact slightly.

Once the change from "clean bore" to "dirty bore" happens, the "dirty bore" conditions remain stable enough for a number of shots for rounds to group together. Each additional shot doesn't change things enough to seriously change the bullets point of impact.

UNTIL, it does. There is a point, and its a slightly different number of shots, depending on many factors, where the fouling has increased enough to change barrel conditions out of the "sweet spot" and groups begin to open up. Then, you clean it again, and start over.

[RC20]

I

seem to be saying this to myself almost every day now... but... I'm 65 and.. the older I get the more I realize how much I DON'T know. Thanks guys.

Yea I was in the same boat when I got into serious reloading and target shooting (recreational only so far)

You; get there, sound like good support, I was lucky a brother was into it the same time I was and we have learned a lot from each other.

[reinert]

M88,

Enjoy that new Shiloh of yours. They fine rifles, and are completely and uniquely made in the United States of America. I was told at the Shiloh Rifle Manufacturing Co., at Big Timber, MT, that EVERYTHING, material wise, on their rifles are completely from "in country." Gun metal (ALL), stock wood (WALNUT), and anything else needful on their rifles are from right here in the U.S.A. That's as cool as it gets, IMO. Hopefully you got that great parchment doc. that says YOU got one of their rifles, with a serial #registered, and documented, to you. The tour that a good shooting buddy and I got to experience a number of years ago at the rifle works was FIRST RATE. We were shown from start to finish how a Shiloh rifle is produced; awesome. That business should be a registered National Historical Place, AFASIC.

reinert

BTW, anyone who loves shooting and finds themselves going through Big Timber, MT, would miss and awful lot by not stopping by the Shiloh Rifle Mfg. Co. (very easy to find). You just might end up ordering a new Sharps rifle.

[Ibmikey]

Do not roller skate or shoot a sharps in a bufalo herd, but you can have fun if you’ve a mind to.

[Road_Clam]

O/P, i'm so jealous ! I have the Pedersoli 1874 Sharps clone you have the REAL DEAL !

Spend some time over at Cast Boolits in the single shot rifle sub forum, and those guys really know the 1874's. I've dabbled with smokeless in H4198 and AA5744 and you will get decent accuracy. You also get very quick cleanup and no need for in between bore swabbing. Step up to true BP and the accuracy will be better but far more messy and the need for more frequent cleaning regiment between shots. The 1874 Sharps really shoot the 525+ gr Postel / Creedmoor / Money bullets very well. Buffalo Arms (BACO) has all you will need for shooting the heavies with BP. Then if you're up for the challenge there is the art of Paper Patching. I've taken my Sharp's out to 600 yds with excellent results, and it's just SO much fun and a unique experience as compared to typical smokeless rifle. Here's a pic of my MVA scoped 1874 :

[M88]

Thanks for the encouragement Road_Clam. That Pedersoli you have is a fine rifle, just as much the "real deal" as my Shiolh 1874 clone. I have a pistol range five minutes from here I belong to, but the nearest rifle range (and it only goes out to 100 yds) is a good 50 minute drive from here, and it doesn't open from winter break till end of the month. a two hour drive gets me to a 300 yd range. I envy you folks that live in the wide open spaces to the west of me. So... have not shot my Shiloh Sharps yet. I have been digging around on the net though... and yes black powder is the way to go with this rifle, that is what it was designed for over 150 years ago. It will be a while before I get into that and paper patching. I'll shoot some factory loads and then some reloads with cast bullets.

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by M88

Thanks for the encouragement Road_Clam. That Pedersoli you have is a fine rifle, just as much the "real deal" as my Shiolh 1874 clone. I have a pistol range five minutes from here I belong to, but the nearest rifle range (and it only goes out to 100 yds) is a good 50 minute drive from here, and it doesn't open from winter break till end of the month. a two hour drive gets me to a 300 yd range. I envy you folks that live in the wide open spaces to the west of me. So... have not shot my Shiloh Sharps yet. I have been digging around on the net though... and yes black powder is the way to go with this rifle, that is what it was designed for over 150 years ago. It will be a while before I get into that and paper patching. I'll shoot some factory loads and then some reloads with cast bullets.

BPCR takes a steep learning curve. Many more variables involved that can cause inaccuracies and random stray shots that leave you scratching your head. I tried PP but i'm just not yet at that level of experience. I'm also learning how to cast so that adds another variable to my outcome. I'm fortunate in the sense I belong to a gun club that has a 600 yd range and it's only about 40 min from my house.

[ms6852]

First off beautiful rifle. I bought a Pedersoli simply because I did not want to wait so long, I never knew if I would die before the built. I have not made the transfer to black powder simply because I want to keep mind smokeless. I do not use greased bullets but instead use powder coated bullets, I either coat them my self or buy from Missouri bullets. Congratulations on your purchase.