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Old March 27, 2018, 03:20 PM   #1
johnelmore
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Today I joined the NRA thanks to David Hogg

I guess I was too lazy or just made excuses in the past, but I thought now is a great time to join the NRA so I took the leap. What made me join was David Hogg and the March For Our lives protest. It was pretty obvious the rallies were not about school safety or firearm safety, but an outright attack on politicians and the NRA.

Neither the politicians nor the NRA had gone into a high school with a rifle and murdered 17 people. Instead, it was one crazed individual who probably should have been in some type of mental institution. If I might ask the question...despite multiple calls to law enforcement and the FBI why wasn't that individual at a mental institution? The answer is we truly have a flawed mental health system that needs to be overhauled and reworked. No doubt there are many people out there that should be evaluated and that crazed individual seemed like he should have been top on the list.

Furthermore, the Sheriff of Broward County is clearly neglect in his duties. I have no experience in law enforcement, but I think its obvious that a school resource officer should be a young aggressive character with some type of tactical training or experience. The officer assigned to Parkland seemed to be a bit lacking in that regard and someone who shouldn't have been assigned to that post.

To be honest, Mr. LaPierre seems a little bit wacky to me at times. I kind of think Dana Loesch should assume his area of responsibility. I looked past LaPierre's wackiness and came to the conclusion he is the only guy that seems to be standing up for the 2nd Amendment. While everyone on the news seems to be wavering, LaPierre has always been rather solid and steadfast. I do look forward to the day that someone like Ms. Loesch will assume his duties.

I have to thank Mr. David Hogg for motivating me into action just like all those Democrats who knocked on my door waking me up telling me I had to vote early. I remember that day when they knocked on my door and normally I would be a bit angry because I work in the night. Instead I smiled, got up, jumped in my truck and voted for Donald Trump. To be honest I never vote and it was nice that someone knocked on my door to remind me what I had to do.

Thank you to the Democrats, thank you to David Hogg. I would have never voted nor joined the NRA if it was not for your sincere efforts. I am truly appreciative of your work.
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Old March 27, 2018, 03:26 PM   #2
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Thank you for joining us.
Keep it up.
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Old March 27, 2018, 03:32 PM   #3
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Many of us are members despite LaPierre, rather than because of him.
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Old March 27, 2018, 03:34 PM   #4
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I read an article about this exactly. I can't find it again, but the gist was that the students might have made headway in their efforts if they'd stayed with the original script and stayed with their immediate impacts.

Now that they've gone full Bloomberg with quotes like 'When they give us that inch, that bump stock ban, we will take a mile," they might only "awaken a sleeping giant." Might be people that would have been ok with something but are not ok with their mile and are now supporting the NRA and the like.
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Old March 27, 2018, 03:38 PM   #5
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LaPierre has the right ideas and isnt a bad person. Its the way he communicates. I think it might be that time for him to retire and put in someone different.

Communicating and spokespersonship is an artform. You need a certain person for that role...
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Old March 27, 2018, 04:04 PM   #6
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I seem to recall certain movements making donations in Mike Pence's name to organizations he did not support.

Maybe its time to do that for the NRA
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Old March 27, 2018, 04:27 PM   #7
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I rejoined last week for the first time in a few years. My only regret is not using one of the sites where you get the free duffle bag or knife
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Old March 27, 2018, 04:39 PM   #8
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Old March 27, 2018, 04:39 PM   #9
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Let's keep personalities, and also partisan politics, out of this, please.
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Old March 27, 2018, 08:47 PM   #10
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomie
Now that they've gone full Bloomberg with quotes like 'When they give us that inch, that bump stock ban, we will take a mile," they might only "awaken a sleeping giant." Might be people that would have been ok with something but are not ok with their mile and are now supporting the NRA and the like.
I hope and pray that this will prove to be the case.

I have a daughter who recently graduated from high school and who is still in college. I certainly have nothing against safe schools. That said, the current student uprising is, to me, absolutely polarizing, and I am NOT on their side. It's not entirely the kids' fault -- they are young and basically naive, they have not had any education into what the Constitution really is, what it says, or what it means. They are being used as pawns by the anti-gun movement, and they (the kids) are too dumb to see it.

I get that they want to feel safe. But they DON'T get that banning guns won't -- can't -- guarantee that.
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Old March 28, 2018, 02:58 AM   #11
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Life has always been rough after high school or even college for most people. There is a certain struggle to become employed or trying to live off a entry level job income. These students see this as their opportunity to be someone and go somewhere with their lives. I have no doubt after they graduate high school they will be provided a very generous income by different sources and they might even get book or movie deals. Therefore I wouldn't say they are pawns or being used. They know exactly what they are doing. What they are doing is aiming for a book deal or a movie or getting a big job with some organization or political figure. Any way you want to look at it that's a much better existence for most people after high school.
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Old March 28, 2018, 05:57 AM   #12
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I have some reservations about the NRA. LaPierre has been more than a little tone-deaf to public sentiment in his remarks & their timing in the past. That said, I'm a member. The NRA is pretty much the 800-lb gorilla in gun laws. I need to just break down & buy that lifetime membership. Of course, I also need to make a fresh donation to the NRA-ILA and join some of the other 2A groups, too.
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Old March 28, 2018, 06:29 AM   #13
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I'm still a member, but I do agree that LaPierre is not exactly the best face. I also remember my senior year in high school, routinely getting a "talking to" due to my "Charleton Heston is my president" bumper sticker on my binder.
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Old March 28, 2018, 08:00 AM   #14
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Like many others, I have mixed feelings about the NRA. Recently renewed my membership after a good number of years because of current events. Spats is right, they ARE the 800 pound gorilla. I don't agree with all of their leadership, and I am with everyone on LaPierre... but truthfully they are the big boy and the one that already has the framework in place to carry the load in this fight.

And it seems like all of our discussions about the NRA here lately focus on what the NRA-ILA branch is doing, or spokesman quotes on gun control, or other such political relations that the NRA deals with. While it is a very important part of what the NRA does, let's not forget that it is first and foremost a firearms training and safety organization. They do a LOT more than lobby congress. Almost every state's law enforcement firearms instruction has had influence from the NRA. Hunter safety courses in many states were a combined effort of NRA and State wildlife officers. The NRA helped tremendously in training snipers in preparation for WWI, and it's quite likely that much of what those NRA instructors taught back then is still embedded in current doctrine. Their "Eddie Eagle" program makes an effort to promote gun safety with children in the home. They do SO much more than just lobby for our gun rights, and we don't need to lose sight of that like I did at one time.

I briefly became disenfranchised with the NRA myself. I have come back around and seen the light.
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Old March 28, 2018, 08:20 AM   #15
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Like many here, I was also a disappointed NRA former member. I joined many years ago, then I became disenchanted with LaPierre and certain aspects of the NRA and I dropped out for a number of years. And then I rejoined, not because I wholeheartedly agreed with their approach, but because the politicians in Washington pay attention to the NRA, and 5,000,001 members is one more than 5,000,000 members. And then, a few years back, I upgraded to life member.

So I'm a life member. It appears to me that LaPierre of late has made some effort to be a bit more on point and less abrasive/antagonistic in his public statements, so maybe he's learning. And I may be in a minority of one, but I am NOT a fan of Dana Loesch. I think it's good for the NRA to have an attractive woman as a spokesperson, but I don't think Dana Loesch is the right person for the role. She comes across (to me) as being just as abrasive and tone deaf as LaPierre used to be.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 28, 2018 at 10:30 AM. Reason: typo
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Old March 28, 2018, 09:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
let's not forget that it is first and foremost a firearms training and safety organization
This an important point. The concealed pistol license training requirements in MI are effectively handled by the NRA. By being able to "hand off" these requirements in the legislation they avoided a hot topic legislative issue (how much training is enough) and helped pass our current minimally restrictive licensing.
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Old March 28, 2018, 12:21 PM   #17
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I joined for the first time, shortly after the Parkland shooting.
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Old March 28, 2018, 01:09 PM   #18
Aguila Blanca
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Getting back to the topic of this thread, young Mr. Hogg seems to have a very high opinion of his new-found importance in the world:

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/...till-rejected/
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Old March 28, 2018, 03:02 PM   #19
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This whole tragic, painfully tragic, incident was the result of failures of the system that was supposed to protect innocent lives. Apparently schools are not as secure as they could be. An expensive proposition, yes, but we spend trillions on other crap. Why not spend trillions on building new schools that can be secured.
Nevermind really, I was about to wander.

This was not the fault of the NRA, even if you hate the NRA, the organization had nothing to do with this event. Legal law abiding gun owners had nothing to do with this.

WhAts the point on spying on civilians if they can’t stop these acts.
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Old March 28, 2018, 03:07 PM   #20
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Why not spend trillions on building new schools that can be secured.
How many school shootings (or other violence that could result in death) are acceptable in a year? As long as the number is 0 the goal is likely unattainable. You simply cannot secure to zero. Those who are going to hold up every school shooting regardless of what measures we take as a fault of gun policy alone know this.

And... do we really want to send our children to something that approaches a prison for a school in the name of keeping them safe? What level of fear and dependence on the system, regardless of how invasive, do we want to condition our children to?
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Old March 28, 2018, 03:56 PM   #21
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I don't think the NRA is perfect by any means but they are the best dog in the fight.

And also, the regular NRA does more to grow the gun culture by their support of youth shooting programs than any chest bumping mouth breather at an open carry rally with an SKS.

But that being said, the NRA-ILA and the SAF are who I send checks too outside of my dues.

Before you panic buy another 100 PMags, how about sending a check to those guys?
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Old March 28, 2018, 03:57 PM   #22
k4swb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick View Post

This was not the fault of the NRA, even if you hate the NRA, the organization had nothing to do with this event. Legal law abiding gun owners had nothing to do with this.
Everyone please remember that the NRA is made up of "legal law abiding gun owners" it's not just some organization. It's millions of PEOPLE.
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Old March 28, 2018, 05:31 PM   #23
rickyrick
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I’ve vistited schools that you cannot walk in the front door.
I’ve visited schools that an officer was in sight.
My high school had 3 real police officers there back in the 1980s. Also, at any time a teacher wasn’t in class they were outside monitoring. We had to go off campus to fist fight

I went to pick my stepson up from high school early one day back in 2015, and an officer intercepted me before I got to the front door. So it is very possible to secure a school.
Yeah sure nothing is 100% but it can be done.
They can secure the staff lounge no problem.
I can’t get to the Pseudoephedrine at the super market very easily.
I sure bet I couldn’t get into jimmy kimmels house without being noticed.

We secure what we want to secure, seems as though we don’t want to secure schools.
They could be reconstructed so it would be easier to secure. We just choose not to, we choose to upgrade city hall, we pay for catered luncheons for staff. We pay for unnecessary wars, but we won’t invest in our children.

Even though there needs to be a solution, this is not the fault of the NRA, or its members. NRA members are not murderers or complicit in murders.
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Old March 28, 2018, 07:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
We secure what we want to secure, seems as though we don’t want to secure schools.
They could be reconstructed so it would be easier to secure. We just choose not to, we choose to upgrade city hall, we pay for catered luncheons for staff. We pay for unnecessary wars, but we won’t invest in our children.

Even though there needs to be a solution, this is not the fault of the NRA, or its members. NRA members are not murderers or complicit in murders.
Two things:

1) if we stop using the kid's name in public forums, maybe he will shut up and go away.

2) Perhaps we choose not to harden schools because those in charge *like* school shootings. It gives them a chance to get on TV and act self-righteous in front of a national audience.

(why does the reply button not quote anymore?)
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Old March 28, 2018, 07:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick
We secure what we want to secure, seems as though we don’t want to secure schools.
They could be reconstructed so it would be easier to secure. We just choose not to, we choose to upgrade city hall, we pay for catered luncheons for staff. We pay for unnecessary wars, but we won’t invest in our children.
I agree. I think I may have commented previously (albeit maybe not on this forum site) that what we need isn't gun control, it's stupid control. And the stupid applies to the school boards who decide what to do (or NOT do) regarding school security.

Example (please bear with me):

In 2005, the high school serving my town and two adjacent towns was gearing up for a major renovation/alteration/addition project. "Major" meaning around $40 million of 2005 dollars. In mid-2005, as the project was about ready to be let out for bids, I was engaged to perform a review of the final construction documents as a check for building and fire safety code compliance. I did that, I found and reported a number of issues, and the issues were addressed and corrected. Fine.

Keep in mind that a project of that scale and scope doesn't get designed on a week, or even a month. In fact, I know from having been on a previous building committee that the project had been cooking for almost ten years. Since design on the final project began sometime in 2002 or 2003, it was just a few years after Columbine (April, 1999), so the school board was paying a lot of lip service to "school security" so they couldn't have a repeat of Columbine.

Consequently, knowing that security was supposed to be a top priority, I was astonished to find that all the classrooms in the new wings had glass sidelights adjacent to the corridor doors. It wasn't a code violation, so I couldn't cite it as such. But I was concerned. I called the Deputy Chief of Police and discussed it with him; he agreed that was pretty dumb. So I took my concern to the school board, and they took it to the architect. The architect's response (remember, the architect had been charged with designing for maximum security) was: "We like it."

The new wings were built with the glass sidelights. Obviously, that's a weak link. What good does it do to lock down classrooms against a shooter when there's a sheet of glass next to the door? One or two shots, the glass goes away, and the shooter can reach through the [former] sidelight and open the door to the classroom.

On other school projects at around the same time, I dealt with schools who were very concerned about having the best locks on the classroom doors so the teachers could lock the doors if there was a problem. I asked if they had any "floating" teachers (teachers who don't teach in their classroom, but who "float" from one room to another to teach a specialized subject). Answer: Yes. I asked if the floaters are given the keys to every room they teach in. Answer: crickets + deer in headlights look. Then I asked if any of their teachers ever got sick. Answer: Yes. Do the substitutes get a key to the classroom they're teaching in? Answer: No, the custodian opens the room in the morning and locks at after the end of the day. Question: How does a substitute lock down the classroom if he/she doesn't have the key? Answer: Crickets + deer in headlights look.

THAT's why we need stupidity control. The people who are in charge of making the key decisions affecting school safety and security frankly don't know diddly about the subject, and they're too absorbed in gearing up for cool stuff like Common Core to spend any time educating themselves about what's really involved in making a school safe.

In the aftermath of the Sandy Hook shooting, the town adjacent to my town proudly announced that they were instituting new measures to make the grammar school safe. I knew the building inspector in that town then (he has since retired), so I called him up and asked him what they were doing to make the school secure. The system they were so proudly announcing was exactly the same system that had just been installed at Sandy Hook -- and which failed completely at Sandy Hook.

As the saying goes, "Ignorance can be educated, but stupid is forever." If we want to get serious about school security, we need to work on stupid control.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 28, 2018 at 07:44 PM. Reason: fix typos
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