Congrats to Missourians!

DA/SA Fan · September 16, 2016, 09:09 AM

Starting Jan 1 our legal gun owners can carry concealed without a permit. A "stand your ground " also goes into effect.
I just hope and pray that the November election doesn't screw things up for all Americans!

Targa · September 16, 2016, 09:52 AM

Very nice!! My home state, at least I can be proud of that. Where I currently reside in Colorado I am proud of our Sheriff's association but other than that...yeh, nothing.

P5 Guy · September 16, 2016, 10:28 AM

Congratulations!
Now if only Florida could join the list of free states

Old Bill Dibble · September 16, 2016, 08:27 PM

Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming

and now:

Missouri

Looks like a good start.

tony pasley · September 16, 2016, 10:42 PM

10 down 40 more to go

kilimanjaro · September 17, 2016, 09:37 PM

The media is now calling Missouri the 'Shoot Me State'.

Getting pretty lame, isn't it?

steve4102 · September 18, 2016, 08:47 AM

Does this apply only to Missouri residence or all citizens that can legally possess a firearm?

849ACSO · September 25, 2016, 11:29 AM

The Missouri law was intended to cover Missouri residents while they are in the State of Missouri.

As I read the statute, it's not totally clear. Further guidance is awaited from the Missouri AG and Missouri Judiciary.

Phoenix54c · September 29, 2016, 08:32 PM

I think this is a mistake on a statutory and common-sense level.

Legally, carrying a firearm introduces a trove of civil and criminal liability issues. This language governing CCW is cryptic and spread out over a lot of laws; a course consolidates this neatly for people and ensures they understand it. It's going to be difficult for even well-meaning people to do this on their own, and then there are just the irresponsible people who don't care. We'll be seeing a lot more firearms on crowded metros, buses, in bars and other places where they can't be used without wounding/killing bystanders or just shouldn't sensibly be.

Practically, the course also provides a lot of information about safe gun usage, maintenance and storage -- habits which, in my experience, at least 30% of people do not regularly exercise.

My thoughts on the machismo present in broader American gun culture at large notwithstanding, I think these courses did a great job of reminding people that guns are dangerous tools that must be treated with care and used only as a weapon only as last resort. People are apt to forget that when they put one on their hip, and I think abolishing the training will probably have some repercussions (not massive, but tangible).

Sarge · September 29, 2016, 08:49 PM

The training was minimal and essentially nobody failed unless the instructor threw them out for twirling a gun on their finger or something equally asinine. The qualification was a joke.

Don P · October 2, 2016, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Congratulations!
Now if only Florida could join the list of free states

Would be nice. I just don't see the state giving up the revenue that the CCW program brings in. I believe there are some 1.3-4 million permit holders in the state of Florida. If you do the math that's a lot of money. At today's cost of $70 to the state =$91,000,000 and renewals are $50 and =$65,000,000. Just my thought.

Sarge · October 2, 2016, 11:28 AM

I figured the revenue issue would kill it here, too. Aside from the fees to CCW instructors, local sheriffs and the highway patrol both charged significant fees for processing, fingerprinting and background checks. MSHP and the Sheriff's Association are major lobbying forces in any pending legislation and the MO Police Chiefs Association is also, to a lesser degree. At any rate I was surprised Constitutional Carry passed over a goober-natorial veto and the objections of those political titans.

Freedom won. Who'd a thought it?

Don P · October 3, 2016, 08:52 AM

Quote:

The training was minimal and essentially nobody failed unless the instructor threw them out for twirling a gun on their finger or something equally asinine. The qualification was a joke

From what I teach and what I know other instructors teach its a decent course and range time. The state does have vague guide lines set in place for the instructors to follow. We had instructors in south FLA charging $20 for a certificate no class involved. They are out there

Hunter Customs · October 5, 2016, 08:53 AM

Quote:

The training was minimal and essentially nobody failed unless the instructor threw them out for twirling a gun on their finger or something equally asinine. The qualification was a joke.

I pretty much agree with the above statement as I know some instructors did the CCW classes in 8 hours or less including the qualification part which did not meet Missouri standards.

When I was doing CCW classes it was a two day course, 10 hours of classroom the first day, review of classroom and qualification the second day. I did not use the huge B27 target for qualification I used the standard USPSA/IPSC target.

I'm certainly not against training but when people bring up the training as an issue I have to wonder how many criminals with guns completed any kind of firearms training.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

Dufus · October 8, 2016, 09:39 AM

Quote:

I have to wonder how many criminals with guns completed any kind of firearms training

Sometimes "firearms training" is learning how to pull the trigger.

I have met gun owners that did not know how to load the gun.

I have also met Chevrolet and Ford owners that did not know how to check the engine oil.

kilimanjaro · October 8, 2016, 05:22 PM

Since when does Grandma need training to exercise a civil right any more than she needs photo ID to cast a ballot.

September 16, 2016, 09:09 AM	#1
DA/SA Fan Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2014 Location: Missouri Posts: 661	Congrats to Missourians! Starting Jan 1 our legal gun owners can carry concealed without a permit. A "stand your ground " also goes into effect. I just hope and pray that the November election doesn't screw things up for all Americans! __________________ "Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!" CASTLE DOCTRINE STRONGLY ENFORCED "Happiness is a warm gun"

September 16, 2016, 10:28 AM	#3
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	GunShine State Congratulations! Now if only Florida could join the list of free states

September 16, 2016, 10:42 PM	#5
tony pasley Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2006 Location: western north carolina Posts: 1,641	10 down 40 more to go __________________ Every day Congress is in session we lose a little bit more of our Liberty.

September 25, 2016, 11:29 AM	#8
849ACSO Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2014 Location: Somewhere in the middle Posts: 629	The Missouri law was intended to cover Missouri residents while they are in the State of Missouri. As I read the statute, it's not totally clear. Further guidance is awaited from the Missouri AG and Missouri Judiciary. __________________ "The day you stop learning SHOULD directly coincide with the day you stop breathing."

September 29, 2016, 08:49 PM	#10
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	The training was minimal and essentially nobody failed unless the instructor threw them out for twirling a gun on their finger or something equally asinine. The qualification was a joke. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

September 16, 2016, 09:52 AM	#2
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	Very nice!! My home state, at least I can be proud of that. Where I currently reside in Colorado I am proud of our Sheriff's association but other than that...yeh, nothing.

September 16, 2016, 08:27 PM	#4
Old Bill Dibble Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2016 Posts: 802	Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming and now: Missouri Looks like a good start.

September 17, 2016, 09:37 PM	#6
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	The media is now calling Missouri the 'Shoot Me State'. Getting pretty lame, isn't it?

September 18, 2016, 08:47 AM	#7
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	Does this apply only to Missouri residence or all citizens that can legally possess a firearm?

September 29, 2016, 08:32 PM	#9
Phoenix54c Member Join Date: January 28, 2015 Posts: 42	I think this is a mistake on a statutory and common-sense level. Legally, carrying a firearm introduces a trove of civil and criminal liability issues. This language governing CCW is cryptic and spread out over a lot of laws; a course consolidates this neatly for people and ensures they understand it. It's going to be difficult for even well-meaning people to do this on their own, and then there are just the irresponsible people who don't care. We'll be seeing a lot more firearms on crowded metros, buses, in bars and other places where they can't be used without wounding/killing bystanders or just shouldn't sensibly be. Practically, the course also provides a lot of information about safe gun usage, maintenance and storage -- habits which, in my experience, at least 30% of people do not regularly exercise. My thoughts on the machismo present in broader American gun culture at large notwithstanding, I think these courses did a great job of reminding people that guns are dangerous tools that must be treated with care and used only as a weapon only as last resort. People are apt to forget that when they put one on their hip, and I think abolishing the training will probably have some repercussions (not massive, but tangible).

October 2, 2016, 11:28 AM	#12
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	I figured the revenue issue would kill it here, too. Aside from the fees to CCW instructors, local sheriffs and the highway patrol both charged significant fees for processing, fingerprinting and background checks. MSHP and the Sheriff's Association are major lobbying forces in any pending legislation and the MO Police Chiefs Association is also, to a lesser degree. At any rate I was surprised Constitutional Carry passed over a goober-natorial veto and the objections of those political titans. Freedom won. Who'd a thought it? __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

October 8, 2016, 05:22 PM	#16
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Since when does Grandma need training to exercise a civil right any more than she needs photo ID to cast a ballot.