Best Sword for under $300?

[Greg_Dunn]

swords are cumbersome due to weight and length, in tight quarters you may not be able to get enough "horsepower" behind your blows to do serious damage.

I would look into something even shorter like a tanto point combat knife or a bayonet or even a collapsible baton.

[Rangefinder]

The first thing I would do is also buy an "el-cheap-o" 440SS as well. Use that to work on your initial cuts, etc. You'll likely destroy it, and that's the purpose--trash the one that doesn't matter. I've learned that the hard way while trying to instruct friends over the years--a nice chip in a very expensive blade from one terribly executed cut. Now they all learn technique on the mail-order junk, shinai, and bokan for a long time before cutting with an antique. Just a suggestion to prevent agony of a broken blade while on the learning curve.

[TomG160]

I think I heard on the history channel once the curve comes from the metal cooling. Much more metal on the back than front, pulling it backward as the blade cools from being forged. Or it could have been the reason the first katana swords started to have a curve to them. But yes I've noticed and often wondered why that particular design doesn't behave the same way.
Your choice of a straight blade will help you in tight quarters. It is much better for thrusting than a curved blade.

[Samurai]

Well, finally a thread that seems to be MADE for me!

Ok. I actually have quite a bit of experience in cutting and in sword practice. Maybe I can help...

I know alot of guys in the martial arts world who hold true to the notion that the only good swords are antiques, forged years ago using the most traditional of methods. To the Samurai, your sword is more than a weapon or training tool, it is the symbol of your pride in yourself and your family, your school, and your life.

Ok. That's all fine and good. But, for me, personally, my sword has to be both FUNCTIONAL as well as traditional. My sword means to me all of those things that it should mean to the Samurai. But, it's not just a symbol. It's also a piece of SPORTS EQUIPMENT. I accept the fact that my sword is going to get dinged up, scratched, and otherwise worn out through years of daily martial arts training. So, my sword has to be both INEXPENSIVE and REPLACEABLE, as well as functional and traditional.

For this reason, I LOATHE the practice of training with a priceless antique Samurai blade. I have watched people around me RUIN some really BEAUTIFUL blades by subjecting them to the everyday wear and tear of cutting practice. It's really sad to see, and it's sad to think that one day, if these folks continue, there won't BE anymore antique blades left for us to enjoy.

Alright. That's my rant. Now, for my money, I stick to the Paul Chen line. My current cutting blade is a 4th Generation Practical Katana. It has lasted me for over 5 years, and it's still razor sharp. They have discontinued production of the 4th Generation model, though. Now, they are making a model called the Practical Plus Katana. These are also great blades. I took one of my black belt tests on one a few years ago. The Practical Plus behaved beautifully.

The blades are forge-folded carbon steel, so they have to be oiled regularly. They will rust like CRAZY if you leave a fingerprint on one. Paul Chen also sells cleaning kits, and they make a great oil. (Look for the "Hanwei" brand name.) Several of the guys I've trained with have stories of being in their back yards, doing cutting practice, and accidentally cutting through posts for chain-link fencing. One guy accidentally cut through the gas meter on his street (noone was hurt).

The wakizashis are just as strong and well-made as the katanas. I don't know why in the world you would only want a waki-, but I'm sure you have your reasons.

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, send me a message.

[skeeter1]

skeeter1, are those supposed to be high quality, or you just not sure?

Well, they are high-quality, but if you're going to actually use it, Damascus blades aren't all that practical. They can break and rust easily. It's more of a work of art then a practical weapon. Take a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel

They do make exquisite wall-hangings.

[FirstFreedom]

swords are cumbersome due to weight and length, in tight quarters you may not be able to get enough "horsepower" behind your blows to do serious damage.

Well, exactly. That's why I want the shorter blade, yet a two-handed handle. In truth, I'd rather have an even shorter blade, say 16-18", but you cannot find these anywhere that I see, of high quality, with the longer handle. All of the "gladius"- or "naval dirk"- length blades have very short one-handed handles - nothing is exactly what I'm wanting, but the ninja-to with the 22-23" blade, comes the closest.

Samurai, thanks; that's good stuff - cut a pipe in half?!

[Rangefinder]

Samurai>> I can add to your list of "Oops" stories... LOL I killed my microwave once...from the front yard. Warm evening, and I'd been wakeboarding all day--this makes for very poor grip strength. Add to the fact that my main cut-practice katana did not have a wrapped handle because I'd gotten tired of replacing the silk and sami from daily use--I built an alternate handle from hardwood and gave it a nice "simulated" wrap pattern in the egraving... Looked very good, functioned well for cut practice--but not so well for cuts from the draw when my grip is already shot. Result--nice cut on the mat, but stopping the extention was not so good with sweaty hands, a less than abrasive handle, and weakened grip strength. It meant a hole all the way through the exterior wall of my kitchen and 6" of the blade sticking through the back of the microwave. The blade was unhurt. The microwave, sadly, did not pull through.

[Samurai]

Ha! First-degree microwave-slaughter!

I can do better than that! Ok. This is the same guy who cut through the gas meter. My fiance and I were training with this guy in his front yard. We were cutting Tameshigiri and practicing draws. My fiance was wearing some thick, platform flip-flops (they were in fashion a few summers ago). The guy is drawing his Paul Chen Golden Oriole katana (razor-freakin' sharp!). He does an oblique draw, makes a perfect cut through the tatami mat, and the blade slips out of his hands! He flings it behind him, where we are standing, and it comes skidding toward us along the ground. Before either of us knew it, she has about 18" of Golden Oriole sticking sideways through the sole of her flip-flop! One wrong bounce, and she would have taken it through her foot!

We were slightly displeased with him at the time.

[FirstFreedom]

Holy crap - these Jap swords need some pommels! Good stories, the both of you (though scary).

[Samurai]

Well, Firstfreedom, now you've heard some stories about the Paul Chen line. My question to you is, do you think those 440 stainless steel museum-replica mideval swords could do any of that???

The folded steel of the Paul Chen line is made for going to work cutting things. Plain and simple. ... and inexpensive.

[FirstFreedom]

No way; you've got me sold. That folded steel sounds tough! But the ideal CQB sword, seems to me, would be to take something like the Paul Chen ninja-to, and

-Add a pommel (I know, not traditional, but your story reveals their need - could save your life in a battle too)

-Shorten the blade, to somewhere between 16 and 19 inches; somewhere in there, maybe 20 or 21.

-Sharpen both edges, although I'm not so sure on this last one that the benefit would outweigh the detriment. Probably would though, so you could slice on the forehand and backhand without the necessity of making a change of blade position, to an attacking angle.

[Musketeer]

The first thing I would do is also buy an "el-cheap-o" 440SS as well. Use that to work on your initial cuts, etc. You'll likely destroy it

Please do NOT do this. Yes, you will destroy the garbage sword but you also very well may injure yourself if it snaps along the blade or tang.

Here is a perfect example...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...shopping&hl=en

[FirstFreedom]

lawdy I love that video. :evilgrin: What you get for peddling junk.

[Samurai]

Don't sell-short the single-edged blade. If your blade has one dulled edge, it can be braced against your arm for a reinforced block or cut. Also, it helps to be able to place your hand against the dull edge to reinforce a cut. In my experience, you can only cut with one side of the blade at a time. And, while you do, the other side is pointed back at you!

If you're going to keep a blade around for self-defense purposes, my first recommendation is to get into a training program. It makes all the difference in the world.

[Rangefinder]

Here's more the kind of "cheap'o" I was referring to if you're going with a To style sword---it's a bit better than a QVC at 3AM piece of junk... It's still a genuine clunker to anyone who knows quality, but it's lasted 10+ years as my general purpose camping tool/all-purpose machete. I think it was originally advertised as the "surviver-to", with 2 *laughable* shirken on the tsuba and a few other 'gadgets' I tossed immediately. All the special "secret ninja features" are great for a chuckle, but the blade is durable, and the handle is steel reinforced ABS (wrapped with nylon chord, but I epoxy-dipped mine so it would hold up better out in the sticks). I've chopped lots of firewood camping and it still has plenty of life in it. It will certainly hold up to getting beat up while you're learning basic cut technique on rolled cardboard. Just about any pawn shop in the US will have at least one kicking around for $45 or so. Not sanctifying buying less than quality here (a LOT less than quality---LOL), but it's for the same reason I'd tell someone not to learn how to ride on a new 25K Harley Davidson until they've spent time dumping, dropping, and abusing a used $500 Honda.
Getting some formal instruction would be a VERY good idea. However, that could be easier said than done, given the weapon in question. A To and a Katana are two very different weapons. And though they share some of the basic principles and some technique transfers across just fine, their individual styles are not the same. Adaptation will be needed later on your part most likely. Just something to keep in mind.

[cochise]

Add a pommel (I know, not traditional, but your story reveals their need - could save your life in a battle too)

-Shorten the blade, to somewhere between 16 and 19 inches; somewhere in there, maybe 20 or 21.
by First Freedom


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You just described the khukuri.

The Gurhkas are / were the premier fighters with the khukuri. There are many documented stories of their blade defeating the Japanese with katanas in combat during WW11. Hell they held the British to a stalemate in Nepal in the 1800's. Their modern style variant is called Bando.

You would be happy with a Sirupatti or Chitlange 21" - 22".

[Musketeer]

You just described the khukuri.

The Gurhkas are / were the premier fighters with the khukuri. There are many documented stories of their blade defeating the Japanese with katanas in combat during WW11. Hell they held the British to a stalemate in Nepal in the 1800's. Their modern style variant is called Bando.

That has long been my house and trunk "knife". In the trunk I can easily refer to it as an all purpose machette and camp tool, for which it has been used. In the house, before getting my permit to own (NY) it was my bump in the night reasurance for me and the wife. Inside the close quarters of a hallway or dark room I have no problem with the Khukuri. You can get the old issue ones, packed in cosmoline, for around $20. They are freaking indestructable and can easily lop off an arm.

[FirstFreedom]

No, I don't think that describes a kukhri, which has a severe bend for some reason, vs. a straight blade. Very different for that reason. And a kuhkri has a single hand handle, not a double. And it's not double-edged either - but blade length, yes, I described a kuhkri's blade length in my ideal. But I'm dyin to hear the explanation for the forward bend in the khukuri, which is the opposite of every other bent sword in history, be they sabers, scimitars, falchions, or katanas.

But very interesting discussion for me - I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get the practical ninja-to from Paul Chen soon. But close second choice is that Cold Steel Chinese War sword...

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~...+War+Sword.htm

But the tip of the Chinese War sword is notsomuch good for thrusting attacks. It would be the ultimate for slicing attacks however!

[samoand]

+1 on himalayan imports
Also, I once came across http://www.kriscutlery.com/ Never dealt with them, but the site seems interesting.

[Rangefinder]

Actually, the forward curve on the khukri is pretty straight forward--no pun intended. It's all about leverage to the cut angle. Simply put, you never want a cut angle that is at 90 degrees to the cut subject--you loose the leverage of the cut. The curve on some blades counters this with a sweeping slice, meaning as you draw the blade down, the curve maintains the original angle of the cut through the draw of the slice (sabre, scimitar, katana, etc.) The Khukri takes a slightly different approach to the same issue. The forward curve serves two purposes--it puts more blade weight forward of the contact point AND keeps the angle of the cut inside the slice arch all the way to the point while pulling the blade through from ahead of the cut point rather than drawing it from behind the cut. It's a brutal weapon design, seriously--and yes, there have been full-length khukri style swords used that were both one and two handed in design. One might ask "If it's such a great design, why didn't it become more popular?" Because it's less wieldly. The weight leading the point rather than following makes it more difficult to control, harder to recover, and more tiring to use at lenght. As a single combat weapon, it's pure carnage.
But on those lines, maybe consider this route... It's a variation of the viking bearded axe I hammered out a few years ago. You get the distance and reach of a medium length sword, the weight and leverage of something much larger, besides being a weapon in itself the solid ball pommel balances the blade to be used one or two handed very easily, and at close-quarters you can choke up under the blade for a real nasty CQB weapon. It's a lot of fun! LOL

[cochise]

FirstFreedom, just a tid bit of info that is on Himalayan Imports webb site.

A khukuri is beleived to have developed from the Greek kopis, brought to India by Alexander the Great. My 25" Sirupatti is very close to the kopis sword, and I have it handy in the back bedroom.

There are a wide variety of lengths, weights, and shapes of khukuris. A martial artist type is called a "Kobra". It is light and thin, & very, very fast. I have a 18" kobra in my travel bag, and a 30 " kobra in my garage I use for practice in the back yard away from neighbors. It's size puts in the sword catagory. It does have room for two hands, but too big for the house. I took it out 3 am one time when two black dressed people were snooping around the bushes next to my house. They ran so fast, it was amusing. I know no pistol would have frighted the intruders like that. Of course my 1911 was in my back waste band out of site.

My katana is a straight blade but more of a Indonesian type than a Japanese type. All the blades are hand forged from a small company in Nepal that has been doing bussiness in the US from Reno Nevada, owners house.

The foward weight & the curve increases the cutting ability tremendously, and has the added advantage of doing camping chores as well as self defense. Some styles are close to neutral in balance. They all need to be respected and you have to "get familar" with the blade. I have 15" khukuris for fishing and canoeing. A side wack is deadly on the big ones, and a swing will slice the head off. I keep an 18" handy in the jon boat to keep my courage up around those pesky gators. [ A .44 is in my bag when permitted on the rivers.]

Also check out Mineral Mountain. They make a "speed stick" I think you would like. I bought a Brush Hog from them and is sword like, but a bit heavy for the light palmettos down here. Good luck in your quest.

[FirstFreedom]

ok, thanks, guys - can you give me some links on those khukuris - espec. the over 16-18" ones with 2-hand shafts?

[cochise]

http://www.himalayan-imports.com/ Take the time and read this page and links to information.



below specific pages for you.


http://yhst-7333098713883.stores.yah...inchkobra.html

http://yhst-7333098713883.stores.yah.../sirupati.html

[samoand]

FirstFreedom: www.himalayan-imports.com is a good place to start, they are a supplier of khuks that are hand-made in primitive conditions in Nepal; their blacksmiths (kamis) are such by cast (i.e. generation after generation after generation) They claim on that site that it takes 6 people (usually one master kami and a crew of less qualified 5) working very hard for two days to make one blade, if memory serves me right. You can't tell it by the price though: in Nepal they have slightly different idea about wages.

I own few of their blades and can attest that quality is typically excellent but may vary as with all hand-made products.

A great think about khuks is versatility - due to design and forging methods (each part of blade is forged to it's preferred hardness) it can be used for most outdoor tasks if used properly. From peeling potatos to cutting wood to beheading zombies. You may call it Jack of all trades and master of none; yet that's exactly what makes it practical, familiar to the bearer, and consequently makes bearer proficient with it. I hear that ghurkas don't allocate much special time for training with khuks, they just have them by the side since early age for all kinds of chores, household or otherwise. You wouldn't do that with a katana or a bastard sword, hence you need training regiment to familiarize yourself with either.

Keep in mind though: typically, khuk is not a 2 hand shaft weapon. There are examples, but those would be more of an exception, made for ritual purposes, and very unwieldy.

[Samurai]

Wow, Rangefinder! I have been trying to articulate the physics behind the double-recurve design of the khukuri and the yattighan for years now. Thank you for FINALLY putting it into words. That's EXACTLY how it works...

Firstfreedom, I like this idea. If you're not going to train with a Samurai sword full-time, then you ought to go with something a little more "user friendly." The khukuri is a good idea.

Also, look at something called a yattighan (forgive the spelling). It's essentially a turkish saber with a double-recurve. They were designed with large pommels, which gave them great balance properties. I have one that's several hundred years old, made of original damascus. (I keep it on a display stand in my home, handle it only with leather gloves, and only take it down to rub it with clove oil.) I don't know if you can find any still being made, but if you can, they are pretty neat.

Remember this: Handling a sword is DIFFICULT. It's NOT something that you can pick up in a few days, a few weeks, or even a few years. I've been training HARD for nearly a decade, and I'm STILL not that good.

When in doubt, read my signature line.