The use of deadly force

Jim243 · October 4, 2014, 03:36 PM

Pax just closed a thread about Ebola which she was right in doing since it had nothing to do with firearms, but it got me thinking about:

A) Would I have the right to shoot someone with a contagious deadly virus if being attacked.

B) If attacked by an unarmed person bent on doing me harm? (like in FL.)

C) If an armed attacker does not pull his weapon, but still is attacking?

At what point do you feel you would pull your CCW to protect yourself?

Jim

Venom1956 · October 4, 2014, 05:08 PM

When he becomes a threat.

A: I doubt you'd know if some random person that attacked you would be contagious prior to the altercation. It comes down to self protection if hes attacking you that's a threat on your life and you can meet it with the force necessary to stop it.

Not the same thing but there was a guy I remember that kept cutting himself with a knife telling officers he had HIV and kept slashing at them while they arrested him. I think the officers were rushed to the hospital and placed on leave until they got results. But he wasn't treated any differently then anyone else doing that.

B and C: Its not a gentlemen's duel if he doesn't pull his gun you can't pull yours. if you feel you are in a situation that could result in losing your life then you should be justified on drawing your weapon regardless of if he has one.

Jim243 · October 4, 2014, 05:20 PM

Quote:

I doubt you'd know if some random person that attacked you would be contagious prior to the altercation.

That is the problem, it could be any viral infection, it would help if he was coughing and bleeding from the eyes or ears, but that might be unlikely. He could just be drunk or a drug user looking for some cash.

I think at about 20 feet, I would yell for him to stop, if he did not, then I would pull my gun since I am definitely under attack and if he did not stop after seeing the gun at 10 feet shoot. I know it will happen in a matter of seconds, but what other choice would I have????? And that goes for B & C as well.

Jim

manta49 · October 4, 2014, 05:51 PM

When you fear your life is at risk I suppose. But it would have to be circumstances that a reasonable person would agree that your fear was justified. Just saying you feared for your life might not be enough, it could then be up to a jury to decide. Would it be reasonable to shoot someone with the flu, as it kills more Americans than Ebola is ever likely to.

Quote:

Data are for the U.S. and are final 2010 Deaths data•Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826

TXAZ · October 4, 2014, 05:54 PM

For your question A)

If you're near Rt 66 (which your sig says you are near) say in Chicago, bad news for you.

If you are in Flagstaff AZ, it is unlikely you would even be indicted.

@RT 66 outside Amarillo, likely won't even go past the Sheriff and DA.

Jim243 · October 4, 2014, 06:47 PM

Quote:

say in Chicago, bad news for you.

Your telling me (LOL), yes it's a Chicago suburb.

Manta, I can get a shot for the flu, not for Hemorrhagic fever. At a 50% mortality rate I could say it was a attempted murder by the attacker. I'm not sure what will happen with our friend in Dallas, but if anyone dies because of him I am sure Texas will charge him with murder, if he lives and survives his illness.

Jim

TXAZ · October 4, 2014, 07:15 PM

Jim spaeketh

Quote:

I am sure Texas will charge him with murder

.

Except for Austin, and possibly San Antonio, that's an excellent understanding of the Texas psyche. You could move down here, get a CHL and enjoy the winters.
Come on down.

Jim243 · October 4, 2014, 07:28 PM

Quote:

You could move down here, get a CHL and enjoy the winters.
Come on down.

What!, and give up all that snow and below freezing temperatures. (LOL)

Actually I've been to Texas, I love the Hill Country and could spend years in the Panhandle exploring, only problem is all those skunks you have more of those than Armadillo's (LOL).

But the wife's family is up here and getting her to move is not possible.

Besides, we should have a more gun friendly Governor after the next election. I get to reload during the winter and shoot during the spring, summer and fall. Now if winter didn't last 5 to 6 months of the year, things would be better.

Hope you and your's are all well and safe.
Jim

Evan Thomas · October 4, 2014, 07:37 PM

Closed pending review by staff.

**Frank Ettin** · October 4, 2014, 08:44 PM

And after consideration, this will stay closed.

Among other things it's too much of a zombie apocalypse sort of fantasy. While perhaps interesting theoretically, actually knowing that the person is a carrier of a lethal disease and that he/she presents a real, immediate threat pretty much works only in movie scripts.

October 4, 2014, 03:36 PM	#1
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	The use of deadly force Pax just closed a thread about Ebola which she was right in doing since it had nothing to do with firearms, but it got me thinking about: A) Would I have the right to shoot someone with a contagious deadly virus if being attacked. B) If attacked by an unarmed person bent on doing me harm? (like in FL.) C) If an armed attacker does not pull his weapon, but still is attacking? At what point do you feel you would pull your CCW to protect yourself? Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

October 4, 2014, 05:08 PM	#2
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	When he becomes a threat. A: I doubt you'd know if some random person that attacked you would be contagious prior to the altercation. It comes down to self protection if hes attacking you that's a threat on your life and you can meet it with the force necessary to stop it. Not the same thing but there was a guy I remember that kept cutting himself with a knife telling officers he had HIV and kept slashing at them while they arrested him. I think the officers were rushed to the hospital and placed on leave until they got results. But he wasn't treated any differently then anyone else doing that. B and C: Its not a gentlemen's duel if he doesn't pull his gun you can't pull yours. if you feel you are in a situation that could result in losing your life then you should be justified on drawing your weapon regardless of if he has one. __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

October 4, 2014, 05:54 PM	#5
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	For your question A) If you're near Rt 66 (which your sig says you are near) say in Chicago, bad news for you. If you are in Flagstaff AZ, it is unlikely you would even be indicted. @RT 66 outside Amarillo, likely won't even go past the Sheriff and DA. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

October 4, 2014, 07:37 PM	#9
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	Closed pending review by staff. __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.

October 4, 2014, 08:44 PM	#10
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	And after consideration, this will stay closed. Among other things it's too much of a zombie apocalypse sort of fantasy. While perhaps interesting theoretically, actually knowing that the person is a carrier of a lethal disease and that he/she presents a real, immediate threat pretty much works only in movie scripts. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper