Problems loading .45 ACP - Page 2

Shadow9mm · February 16, 2021, 11:49 PM

Depends on the gauge. I use the EGW, which is cut to minimum saami specs with a barrel reamer and even accounts for bullet ogive engaging the lands at minimum specs.

As far as the op, sounds like he has fired his gauged rounds in all the guns listed without issue, so kinda a moot point.

cdoc42 · February 16, 2021, 11:53 PM

". I finally got all 250 rounds to pass."

What did you do differently the second time around that worked?

Shadow9mm · February 16, 2021, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoc42

". I finally got all 250 rounds to pass."

What did you do differently the second time around that worked?

From the sounds of it, the op just pulled the bullet and tried again. Perhaps a short stroke on the press that did not fully seat or crimp the first time around?

latsafun · February 17, 2021, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoc42

". I finally got all 250 rounds to pass."

What did you do differently the second time around that worked?

I placed each bullet in the case, making sure that the bullet was seated perfectly straight (or as perfectly straight as I could), then carefully pulled the handle.

zeke · February 17, 2021, 11:09 AM

Invested in Reddings comp 45 acp seater. While not as "tight" as their rifle comp seaters, it does help seating the bullets straight. Also run the rounds through a LFC.

All new setups get a dummy round plunk test, and loading from mag test from full slide lock back. This test for chambering, loading and setback. Have several mild lead target rounds that will fail the plunk test as they are deliberately loaded to push into the rifling, while still passing the loading test.

rc · February 17, 2021, 11:23 AM

Yeh, you got get some basic alignment before you seat a bullet with the press. I'm not a big fan of the fidly hornady sliding seater. My RCBS dies seem to do fine with alignment.

latsafun · February 18, 2021, 12:08 AM

Update - after tinkering/aligning/re-aligning, cleaning dies, re-checking alignment, I managed to get some dummy rounds loaded and pass case gauge. After a while, I noticed that all dummies that passed case gauge were loaded using brass of various head stamps. NONE of the XtremeBullets brass would pass. I gave up on the 550B. I set my Square Deal B up for .45 and ran some dummy rounds with brass of various head stamps - all passed. Ran some dummy rounds with XtremeBullets brass...NONE of them passed.

I am almost certain that it is the brass. What I have not figured out is what it is about this brass that is causing the bulge. Due to frustration, I called it a night, and sent an email to XtremeBullets explaining my issue, and asking if they have heard of this problem.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 18, 2021, 12:50 AM

Do you have an instrument that can accurately measure the case wall thickness?

bamaranger · February 18, 2021, 01:01 AM

Are you sizing the "new" brass, or just loading as they arrived from the vendor, ie, priming, expand, seat/crimp? In other words, skipping the sizing stage.

New brass should be fairly uniform and may well be upon manufacture. Handling, ship and storage might change that. My own practice is to size new unfired brass, certainly rifle ctgs and even new pistol brass too.

lll Otto lll · February 18, 2021, 01:01 AM

If I’m not mistaken, Xtreme and Freedom Munitions are one in the same. If I run across FM head-stamped brass, I throw it in the dumpster.
With that said, I’d have to load the brass you have to actually determine if it’s junk.

latsafun · February 18, 2021, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamaranger

Are you sizing the "new" brass, or just loading as they arrived from the vendor, ie, priming, expand, seat/crimp? In other words, skipping the sizing stage.

New brass should be fairly uniform and may well be upon manufacture. Handling, ship and storage might change that. My own practice is to size new unfired brass, certainly rifle ctgs and even new pistol brass too.

Yes - I lubed and sized each piece of brass.

latsafun · February 18, 2021, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Do you have an instrument that can accurately measure the case wall thickness?

The only thing I have to measure with is a set of digital calipers. I measured the wall thickness, and it read 0.010-0.011.

I also inspected the brass. All the pieces I inspected measured 0.893 in length, which is the 'trim to' length listed in the Hornady book.

latsafun · February 18, 2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lll Otto lll

If I’m not mistaken, Xtreme and Freedom Munitions are one in the same. If I run across FM head-stamped brass, I throw it in the dumpster.
With that said, I’d have to load the brass you have to actually determine if it’s junk.

The head stamps are stamped 'Xtreme".

If you are willing to load a few, I would be willing to send you some.

hammered54 · February 18, 2021, 03:37 PM

wow....45acp has to be one of the easiest rounds to load in my opinion.
what die are you using that needs to be lubed ?
the only time I use a "case gage" is for bottle neck...never have for strait wall ( 9,40, 44,45,,ect.)...if needed I do as mentioned about and "plunk it".
Ive also found that using the Lee FCD solves so many issues ....it has a carbide ring that "smooths " out that bulge you may get before it crimps it....works in all our guns never a problem....with any brass.
ive used the brass from "extreme" for 45acp ( headstamped U.S.A ) loved it.

Matt.

p.s. the sticky at the top of the page has so much info on 45acp.....and the replys are priceless.

latsafun · February 18, 2021, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammered54

wow....45acp has to be one of the easiest rounds to load in my opinion.
what die are you using that needs to be lubed ?
the only time I use a "case gage" is for bottle neck...never have for strait wall ( 9,40, 44,45,,ect.)...if needed I do as mentioned about and "plunk it".
Ive also found that using the Lee FCD solves so many issues ....it has a carbide ring that "smooths " out that bulge you may get before it crimps it....works in all our guns never a problem....with any brass.
ive used the brass from "extreme" for 45acp ( headstamped U.S.A ) loved it.

Matt.

p.s. the sticky at the top of the page has so much info on 45acp.....and the replys are priceless.

I agree - .45 has to be one of the easiest.

I am using the Dillon Carbide Pistol dies. I don't normally lube .45 cases - I did it in this instance to rule out the lack of lube being an issue.

I have never had any problems loading any .45 brass...until now.

The brass I was trying to load was headstamped "Xtreme"...it is probably different from the "USA" brass you used, which may explain everything.

I have loaded new brass from Xtreme in 9, 38 spl, 357 mag, and .40, and never had an issue. They all loaded great.

Longshot4 · February 18, 2021, 05:16 PM

It has been a wile since I loaded 45ACP. Although I have had the kocked bullet issue many times in the past with pistole rounds. In November I noticed my Son had factory rounds with the same bullet as my hand loads. His bullets were all seated straight and mine kocked.

Since then I came across Dies in my 2020 catalogue. The Dies are designed to seat bullets true. They are called (Competition Bullet seating Die). One of the guys mentioned Redding dies earlier. Looks to me that is the way to go. Although If you don't want to spend the money. Then you can puts around with them for 40 years like I did. Hold the bullet straight, Bell well, Crimp with all cases same length and crimp carefully. The drop test with chamber is a must. Or for $144.25 You can purchase from Redding the Competition Seating Die. The times are a changing.

Good luck

**Unclenick** · February 18, 2021, 05:32 PM

With the Dillon press, the flare is made by the tip of the powder drop tube/powder measure operating rod. A separate M-die would seriously interrupt the production flow on a 550, as there are only four die positions on it. However, if you have or know someone who has a lathe, you can do what I did and turn your own Dillon powder drop tube that has the M-profile on it to clear this problem. It is no issue with most jacketed bullets as they straighten themselves pretty well in the throat and the inaccuracy introduced by the lack of concentricity is generally not going to matter to most handgun shooting disciplines. However, with lead bullets, that tilt does cause extra lead shaving and increased leading results. But, in general, it is one of those "nice-to-have but not required items.

What you can do is get a Lyman M-die or a Redding Premium Expander Die (the nicest, but most costly) and run your sizing and priming and expanding operation on your 550 using this pair, then feed them to your Square Deal at the powder drop station and finish them that way.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 18, 2021, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latsafun

The only thing I have to measure with is a set of digital calipers. I measured the wall thickness, and it read 0.010-0.011.

A standard caliper (digital, dial, or vernier) isn't really accurate for measuring the thickness of a curved surface, because the jaws have some width even at the narrow points. However, they could be used for comparison purposes.

So which brass had a thickness of .010 to .011? You have ascertained that one brand of brass is the problem. Your task now is to figure out what's different about that brass from all the others? Since you resized it before loading it, the first thing I would look at is the case wall thickness.

zeke · February 18, 2021, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot4

It has been a wile since I loaded 45ACP. Although I have had the kocked bullet issue many times in the past with pistole rounds. In November I noticed my Son had factory rounds with the same bullet as my hand loads. His bullets were all seated straight and mine kocked.

Since then I came across Dies in my 2020 catalogue. The Dies are designed to seat bullets true. They are called (Competition Bullet seating Die). One of the guys mentioned Redding dies earlier. Looks to me that is the way to go. Although If you don't want to spend the money. Then you can puts around with them for 40 years like I did. Hold the bullet straight, Bell well, Crimp with all cases same length and crimp carefully. The drop test with chamber is a must. Or for $144.25 You can purchase from Redding the Competition Seating Die. The times are a changing.

Good luck

Bought mine when they came out and were cheaper than the $90 at Graph and Sons, but worth it for purposes purchased for. Especially handy when using Lee undersize dies to increase bullet pull.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...categoryId/583

**Aguila Blanca** · February 18, 2021, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot4

Since then I came across Dies in my 2020 catalogue. The Dies are designed to seat bullets true.

Give us a hint. Whose catalog, and what brand of dies are you talking about?

74A95 · February 18, 2021, 07:45 PM

Since this thread is about crooked bullets, ways to fix them (and possible effects on accuracy), people might find this article of interest:

https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/...-and-accuracy/

latsafun · February 18, 2021, 11:54 PM

Well, I loaded 50 rounds of SNS Casting RN poly-coated, and 200 rounds of Sierra JHP on my 550. Used new Starline brass. EVERY round passed case gauge. Plunk-tested a few rounds in my FNX45 - looked great.

I'm convinced that the Xtreme primed brass is crap.

latsafun · February 19, 2021, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

A standard caliper (digital, dial, or vernier) isn't really accurate for measuring the thickness of a curved surface, because the jaws have some width even at the narrow points. However, they could be used for comparison purposes.

So which brass had a thickness of .010 to .011? You have ascertained that one brand of brass is the problem. Your task now is to figure out what's different about that brass from all the others? Since you resized it before loading it, the first thing I would look at is the case wall thickness.

Yea, I figured that the digital calipers were not the best way to measure wall thickness. But, I did take some measurements using the tip of the jaws, on the rim of the case. The XtremeBullets brass measured 0.011. The new Starline brass measured 0.006.

**44 AMP** · February 19, 2021, 02:44 AM

Quote:

A standard caliper (digital, dial, or vernier) isn't really accurate for measuring the thickness of a curved surface, because the jaws have some width even at the narrow points. However, they could be used for comparison purposes.

Using the outside jaws to measure the curved case wall thickness can induce errors, try this, use the inside jaws (the pointed knife edge ones) to measure the inside diameter of the case and the outside jaws to measure the outside of the case and the difference is your case wall thickness.

Not as precise as other instruments, but should be close enough for comparison and practical uses.

If you were loading ok rounds before and you changed brass and now you have issues, then obviously there's something different about the new brass. It may be all their brass in that caliber, or it may just be you got a "bad" lot. I've never used that brand, so can't offer any opinion on that.

Carmady · February 19, 2021, 09:46 AM

"Yes - I lubed and sized each piece of brass."

Did you also chamfer and deburr the case mouths on the new brass?

February 16, 2021, 11:49 PM	#26
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,974	Depends on the gauge. I use the EGW, which is cut to minimum saami specs with a barrel reamer and even accounts for bullet ogive engaging the lands at minimum specs. As far as the op, sounds like he has fired his gauged rounds in all the guns listed without issue, so kinda a moot point. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

February 18, 2021, 12:50 AM	#33
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	Do you have an instrument that can accurately measure the case wall thickness? __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

February 18, 2021, 01:01 AM	#34
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,312	cases Are you sizing the "new" brass, or just loading as they arrived from the vendor, ie, priming, expand, seat/crimp? In other words, skipping the sizing stage. New brass should be fairly uniform and may well be upon manufacture. Handling, ship and storage might change that. My own practice is to size new unfired brass, certainly rifle ctgs and even new pistol brass too.

February 18, 2021, 03:37 PM	#39
hammered54 Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2010 Location: Pinckney,Michigan Posts: 151	wow....45acp has to be one of the easiest rounds to load in my opinion. what die are you using that needs to be lubed ? the only time I use a "case gage" is for bottle neck...never have for strait wall ( 9,40, 44,45,,ect.)...if needed I do as mentioned about and "plunk it". Ive also found that using the Lee FCD solves so many issues ....it has a carbide ring that "smooths " out that bulge you may get before it crimps it....works in all our guns never a problem....with any brass. ive used the brass from "extreme" for 45acp ( headstamped U.S.A ) loved it. Matt. p.s. the sticky at the top of the page has so much info on 45acp.....and the replys are priceless. Last edited by hammered54; February 18, 2021 at 03:43 PM.

February 18, 2021, 05:32 PM	#42
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	With the Dillon press, the flare is made by the tip of the powder drop tube/powder measure operating rod. A separate M-die would seriously interrupt the production flow on a 550, as there are only four die positions on it. However, if you have or know someone who has a lathe, you can do what I did and turn your own Dillon powder drop tube that has the M-profile on it to clear this problem. It is no issue with most jacketed bullets as they straighten themselves pretty well in the throat and the inaccuracy introduced by the lack of concentricity is generally not going to matter to most handgun shooting disciplines. However, with lead bullets, that tilt does cause extra lead shaving and increased leading results. But, in general, it is one of those "nice-to-have but not required items. What you can do is get a Lyman M-die or a Redding Premium Expander Die (the nicest, but most costly) and run your sizing and priming and expanding operation on your 550 using this pair, then feed them to your Square Deal at the powder drop station and finish them that way. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 16, 2021, 11:53 PM	#27
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	". I finally got all 250 rounds to pass." What did you do differently the second time around that worked?

February 17, 2021, 11:09 AM	#30
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	Invested in Reddings comp 45 acp seater. While not as "tight" as their rifle comp seaters, it does help seating the bullets straight. Also run the rounds through a LFC. All new setups get a dummy round plunk test, and loading from mag test from full slide lock back. This test for chambering, loading and setback. Have several mild lead target rounds that will fail the plunk test as they are deliberately loaded to push into the rifling, while still passing the loading test.

February 17, 2021, 11:23 AM	#31
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,768	Yeh, you got get some basic alignment before you seat a bullet with the press. I'm not a big fan of the fidly hornady sliding seater. My RCBS dies seem to do fine with alignment.

February 18, 2021, 12:08 AM	#32
latsafun Member Join Date: February 16, 2021 Posts: 18	Update - after tinkering/aligning/re-aligning, cleaning dies, re-checking alignment, I managed to get some dummy rounds loaded and pass case gauge. After a while, I noticed that all dummies that passed case gauge were loaded using brass of various head stamps. NONE of the XtremeBullets brass would pass. I gave up on the 550B. I set my Square Deal B up for .45 and ran some dummy rounds with brass of various head stamps - all passed. Ran some dummy rounds with XtremeBullets brass...NONE of them passed. I am almost certain that it is the brass. What I have not figured out is what it is about this brass that is causing the bulge. Due to frustration, I called it a night, and sent an email to XtremeBullets explaining my issue, and asking if they have heard of this problem.

February 18, 2021, 01:01 AM	#35
lll Otto lll Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2008 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 295	If I’m not mistaken, Xtreme and Freedom Munitions are one in the same. If I run across FM head-stamped brass, I throw it in the dumpster. With that said, I’d have to load the brass you have to actually determine if it’s junk.

February 18, 2021, 05:16 PM	#41
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	It has been a wile since I loaded 45ACP. Although I have had the kocked bullet issue many times in the past with pistole rounds. In November I noticed my Son had factory rounds with the same bullet as my hand loads. His bullets were all seated straight and mine kocked. Since then I came across Dies in my 2020 catalogue. The Dies are designed to seat bullets true. They are called (Competition Bullet seating Die). One of the guys mentioned Redding dies earlier. Looks to me that is the way to go. Although If you don't want to spend the money. Then you can puts around with them for 40 years like I did. Hold the bullet straight, Bell well, Crimp with all cases same length and crimp carefully. The drop test with chamber is a must. Or for $144.25 You can purchase from Redding the Competition Seating Die. The times are a changing. Good luck

February 18, 2021, 07:45 PM	#46
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,570	Since this thread is about crooked bullets, ways to fix them (and possible effects on accuracy), people might find this article of interest: https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/...-and-accuracy/

February 18, 2021, 11:54 PM	#47
latsafun Member Join Date: February 16, 2021 Posts: 18	Well, I loaded 50 rounds of SNS Casting RN poly-coated, and 200 rounds of Sierra JHP on my 550. Used new Starline brass. EVERY round passed case gauge. Plunk-tested a few rounds in my FNX45 - looked great. I'm convinced that the Xtreme primed brass is crap.

February 19, 2021, 09:46 AM	#50
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	"Yes - I lubed and sized each piece of brass." Did you also chamfer and deburr the case mouths on the new brass?