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Old February 14, 2006, 07:10 PM   #1
highck
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Which cowboy lever gun?

Ok, I'm new and I don't know anything about cowboy action shooting, but I've got a friend that asked me for a second opinion on which .44-40 WCF lever gun to get. He said he's stuck on a Navy Arms, Cimarron or EMF in .44-40. So any advice you can give me, or if you know of some other forums I could post this on, I'd appreciate it. Thanks

Last edited by highck; February 14, 2006 at 08:17 PM.
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Old February 14, 2006, 07:34 PM   #2
Jbar4Ranch
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The 1866 "Yellow Boy" and the 1873 are probably the most popular. Both rifles are virtually identical, with the '66 having a brass receiver and the '73 having a steel receiver. The receiver side plates differ, but internal parts, such as the toggle links, lifter, carrier, firing pin & carrier are the same between the two, as are barrels, mag tubes, and stocks. The triggers are slightly different, and the '73 has an interlock that prevents the trigger from being pulled unless the lever is tight up against the stock. Some will argue that the stocks are slightly different, but close examination of my '66's and '73 tends to tell me that they are likely interchangeable. No matter who imports them; Cimarron, Navy Arms, etc., they are all made by Uberti. The 1873 is the most historically accurate, and the .44 WCF was the original chambering. The 1866 was chambered in rimfire cartridges only, I believe.

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Old March 3, 2006, 12:02 PM   #3
Father Knows Best
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JBar4 nailed most of it. The buttstocks do in fact differ between the 1866 and the 1873, because the tang angle is different on the 1866 and 1873 receivers. If you set an 1866 on an 1873, or vice versa, you'll see what I mean. The 1866 has a bit more drop to the stock. Since I'm tall with a big head and long neck, I find that the 1866 fits me a little better.

All 1866 and 1873 rifles are made by Uberti. Cimarron, EMF, Navy Arms, Taylor's and others are merely importers. Some people will say that the "specs" for the different importers differ, but I've handled a lot of these (and owned several) and have never been convinced that any importer's line is generally higher quality than any other's. Some of them do have variations that are only available from that importer, but the basic models (saddle ring carbine, 20" short rifle, 24" rifle) are essentially identical regardless of whether they say Navy Arms or EMF or Cimarron on them.

Your friend is on the right track by wanting a 44-40 chambering. 44-40 and 38-40 are far superior to the other choices for use with black powder, and 44-40 ammo is easier to find if you don't reload.

In terms of which variation to get for cowboy shooting, the best choices are the carbine (19" round barrel) and the short rifle (20" octagonal barrel). Both will hold 10 rounds of 44-40, which is the max load for any cowboy action stage. The carbine is a little bit lighter, especially out front. Some folks prefer the carbine because the lighter weight makes it feel quicker in their hands. Others prefer the short rifle because the heavier barrel helps control recoil and makes recovery time between shots shorter. The short rifle does have better sights out of the box, and the front sight is dovetailed (the carbine front sight is welded to the barrel band). On balance, I generally recommend the short rifle, if for no other reason than the fact that most people end up replacing the front sight with a Marbles gold bead, which is a lot easier to do on the rifle.

After lots of experimentation over the years, I settled on an 1866 short rifle in 44-40 for cowboy action shooting, and it has served me well. I shoot nothing but black powder in it. Mine has a Pioneer Gun Works short stroke kit in it, and the sights are a Marbles gold bead front and Williams adjustable rear.
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Old March 3, 2006, 09:23 PM   #4
Hafoc
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You might also want to look at an 1892. From its date it's toward the end of the Old West period, obviously. But it's a heck of a good design, much stronger than the older toggle-action Winchesters.

It was designed by a gentleman known as John M. Browning. I predict that if this young man keeps on designing guns of this quality, he will go far.



OK, OK, enough of pretending to be typing on this computer over 110 years ago... the 92 is stronger and sleeker than the 73, less picturesque-looking, more modern, but they're both great. Just don't remove the 1892 from consideration before you've seen one.
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Old March 4, 2006, 10:43 AM   #5
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The 1892 is indeed a fine design. The 1892 action is more compact than the "toggle link" action of the 1860, 1866 and 1873 rifles. It is lighter and a heck of a lot stronger, too. The 1892 can handle .44 Magnum and heavy .45 Colt loads, for instance, whereas the toggle link rifles cannot. In fact, you can even get the 1892 design chambered in .454 Casull, which is basically a magnum version of the .45 Colt. Modern 1892 reproductions also tend to be cheaper than the toggle link rifles. Retail prices for 1866 rifles are around $750-850, with the 1873 running about $100 more, and the 1860 and additional $100 over the 1873. By contrast, modern 1892 repros from someone like Rossi sell closer to $400 the last time I looked.

You don't see many 1892's at CAS matches, though, and there's a reason for that -- the modern repros tend to be pretty rough out of the box, and can be very sensitive to cartridge length. The actions are much more complicated than the toggle link actions, and are harder to work on. I can detail strip my 1866 and 1873 blindfolded in less than a minute. The one time I tried to take apart an 1892 (that I later sold), I ended up having to deliver it in parts to a 'smith to reassemble. Part of that is my lack of skill, but part of it is the more complicated action.

After the Uberti-made toggle link Winchester designs, the second most popular CAS rifle is the Marlin 1894. It has many of the advantages of the 1892 (stronger action, cheaper) without the disadvantages. The Marlins tend to work better out of the box, are easier to slick up, and have good aftermarket parts support.

If you do decide to go with an 1892, my advise is to either look for one of the Miroku (Japan) built versions imported by Browning as the B92, or buy a new repro from Steve Young at Steve's Gunz in Texas. Steve is known as "the Rossi 92 Specialist" and it's a title he's earned. Steve will deliver a rifle that has been slicked and tuned for CAS and will work like a charm. His website is http://www.stevesgunz.com
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Old March 4, 2006, 11:50 AM   #6
Hafoc
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Got a question for you, Father.

Assuming I am stone-crazy enough to go for .44 S&W Russian reproductions, do you know whether any of the .44 magnum or .44 special lever guns can handle the Russian cartridge?

I presume that since the Russian was lengthened to make the Special, any rifle that fired the Speical could be modified to handle the Russian. It also seems possible that, since a lot of the .44 Mag rifles can handle Specials (as .357s can handle .38 Special), they might just possibly handle the Russian too. But if you don't mind my reversing a metaphor, going for such a short case in a .44 mag just has to be stretching things.
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Old March 4, 2006, 04:03 PM   #7
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I don't know, to be honest. I am a .44 Russian fan, but I only shoot that cartridge in my revolvers. I use .44-40 in my rifles. I'm sure that there are 'smiths out there who can modify/adjust rifles chambered for 44 mag or special to handle the shorter cartridge, but I wouldn't count on it working out of the box. My dad's Browning 92 in .44 magnum, for example, absolutely will not feed .44 specials, and we've never even tried it with the shorter Russian cartridges.

I'm not sure it's really worth fiddling with, anyway. The .44 Russian cartridge has a few things going for it but they don't offer any significant advantage for rifles in the CAS game. You can shoot downloaded .44-40, .44 mag or .44 special loads in the rifle that are mild enough that recoil is not an issue. While the smaller Russian case may offer some inherent accuracy advantages, this ain't bullseye. .44 Special or mag or .44-40 will be plenty accurate enough.

The only reason I shoot Russian in my revolvers is that I shoot black powder, which means I have to completely fill the case. A full .44 Russian case holds about 23 grains of Goex Cowboy black powder with 1/8" compression under a 200 grain bullet, whereas a full .44-40 case holds about 36 grains, and a full .44 mag case holds around 32-33 grains. There is a noticeable difference in recoil with the handguns. While I like the big boom and clouds of smoke, if I want to be even somewhat competitive, I need the lighter loads that the Russian case offers. If I was shooting smokeless, it wouldn't matter as I would use the same load no matter the case size.
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Old March 4, 2006, 09:45 PM   #8
Hafoc
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If I were shooting the Russians, I would be doing it because I think the S&W breaktops are about the coolest thing going. For all that I love my New Vaquero. Heh. Nothing says I couldn't have them both!

Granted, I could get a Schofield in (non-authentic) .45 Colt or .44-40. I really wish they made a "Russian" repro in .44-40. They could probably do so since Uberti makes a "Russian" in .45 Colt for European sales only, iirc, so the cylinder must be long enough for it. The reason I'd want a .44-40 is that S&W did make some No. 3s, late in the revolver's life, for that cartridge. And they resembled a Russian without the trigger-guard spur.
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