old singel shot 12ga

goosegunner · February 17, 2002, 02:33 PM

Have a old singel shot shotgun , 12ga
marked:
- Neuman & sons Liege Belgique
- Deposè
- An E over LG over a star inside an upright oval with a small crown.
-Choke 17.3

this is all readable markings, hope this is enough.
anyone know how old the gun is, and is it safe to fire modern shotshells in (or do I have to use black powder loads)
what does "choke 17.3" mean

Cap n ball · February 18, 2002, 10:04 AM

According to Balderson's 3rd edition of 'Gunmarks'. That stamp is a Belgian proof for 1893/94.

Not safe to shoot without a bench test and a good look-over by a competent gunsmith. I wouldn't use modern ammo in it in any case. Old barrels can be brittle and fracture.

A 'choke' is a constriction in the barrel that determines the pattern or spread of shot at distance. I'm not sure what 17.3 means in modern terms. Once again ask your gunsmith.

Harley Nolden · February 18, 2002, 11:20 AM

It sounds like this may be a "Hardware Gun." Here is some history that my involve your shotgun.

CRESCENT ARMS

This Company mfg’d good quality, inexpensive side by side and single Bbl shotguns and was founded in 1883. They were bought by the H&D Folsom Arms Company of New York, importers and distributors of firearms and sporting goods.

After the purchase of Crescent, the Folsom Company was able to offer a complete range of shotguns, imported English French, Belgium and American made Crescents. By the turn of the century Crescent Arms produced huge quantities of “Hardware Guns” it produced guns under direct contract to distributors, mail order housed and hardware distributors with any brand name the customer requested. Crescent also produced guns for its parent company, as Folsom house brands that were sold to customers that did not want their own brand name.

By the lat 1890's Crescent was producing basically five grade of dbl bbl shotguns offering a model for most tastes. The Crescent /Folsom Arms Company continued this type of business until 1930 when it merged with Davis Warner Arms Corp and became the Crescent-Davis Arms Corp. In 1932 it assets and machinery were bought by Stevens Arms Company, a victim of changing tastes and the depression

HJN

JackM · February 18, 2002, 12:39 PM

Read the post "More Jensen proofmarks". If it doesn't have the "lion rampart" proofmark it was not proofed for smokeless powder"

Bye
Jack

goosegunner · February 18, 2002, 01:31 PM

Thanks for all the info.
It is a long way to the nearest gunsmith, ang the gun have no rust and seems to be in good condition.
and it have the "lion rampant" so I tryed it....

It shoot nise patterns (ca. 15" at 25 yards) with Eley grand prix 32g no. 5. but the recoil was hard... a fun gun

JackM · February 18, 2002, 02:50 PM

It should shoot tight patterns with a choke of 17.3mm ! Standard 12 gauge bore is .729" or 18.5mm, and full choke is USUALLY considered .040". A little math says your gun is choked .048". That's Extra Full for most people.

Bye
Jack

February 17, 2002, 02:33 PM	#1
goosegunner Member Join Date: February 16, 2002 Location: norway Posts: 81	old singel shot 12ga Have a old singel shot shotgun , 12ga marked: - Neuman & sons Liege Belgique - Deposè - An E over LG over a star inside an upright oval with a small crown. -Choke 17.3 this is all readable markings, hope this is enough. anyone know how old the gun is, and is it safe to fire modern shotshells in (or do I have to use black powder loads) what does "choke 17.3" mean

February 18, 2002, 10:04 AM	#2
Cap n ball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2000 Posts: 247	According to Balderson's 3rd edition of 'Gunmarks'. That stamp is a Belgian proof for 1893/94. Not safe to shoot without a bench test and a good look-over by a competent gunsmith. I wouldn't use modern ammo in it in any case. Old barrels can be brittle and fracture. A 'choke' is a constriction in the barrel that determines the pattern or spread of shot at distance. I'm not sure what 17.3 means in modern terms. Once again ask your gunsmith. Last edited by Cap n ball; February 18, 2002 at 10:51 AM.

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February 18, 2002, 11:20 AM	#3
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	It sounds like this may be a "Hardware Gun." Here is some history that my involve your shotgun. CRESCENT ARMS This Company mfg’d good quality, inexpensive side by side and single Bbl shotguns and was founded in 1883. They were bought by the H&D Folsom Arms Company of New York, importers and distributors of firearms and sporting goods. After the purchase of Crescent, the Folsom Company was able to offer a complete range of shotguns, imported English French, Belgium and American made Crescents. By the turn of the century Crescent Arms produced huge quantities of “Hardware Guns” it produced guns under direct contract to distributors, mail order housed and hardware distributors with any brand name the customer requested. Crescent also produced guns for its parent company, as Folsom house brands that were sold to customers that did not want their own brand name. By the lat 1890's Crescent was producing basically five grade of dbl bbl shotguns offering a model for most tastes. The Crescent /Folsom Arms Company continued this type of business until 1930 when it merged with Davis Warner Arms Corp and became the Crescent-Davis Arms Corp. In 1932 it assets and machinery were bought by Stevens Arms Company, a victim of changing tastes and the depression HJN

February 18, 2002, 12:39 PM	#4
JackM Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Sask. Posts: 108	Read the post "More Jensen proofmarks". If it doesn't have the "lion rampart" proofmark it was not proofed for smokeless powder" Bye Jack

February 18, 2002, 01:31 PM	#5
goosegunner Member Join Date: February 16, 2002 Location: norway Posts: 81	Thanks for all the info. It is a long way to the nearest gunsmith, ang the gun have no rust and seems to be in good condition. and it have the "lion rampant" so I tryed it.... It shoot nise patterns (ca. 15" at 25 yards) with Eley grand prix 32g no. 5. but the recoil was hard... a fun gun

February 18, 2002, 02:50 PM	#6
JackM Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Sask. Posts: 108	It should shoot tight patterns with a choke of 17.3mm ! Standard 12 gauge bore is .729" or 18.5mm, and full choke is USUALLY considered .040". A little math says your gun is choked .048". That's Extra Full for most people. Bye Jack