The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 10, 2017, 12:28 PM   #26
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 14,080
It is better when it doesn't just tear the whole head off the case, as once happened to me. I recommend putting the die in your freezer for a couple of hours before trying it. Brass shrinks a little more than steel does in the cold. If you have dry ice, colder is better.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 01:49 PM   #27
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC View Post
Now take your decapped brass and get it clean. This process has evolved some.I still use a vibratory bowl and media.Only run clean brass into your sizing die.
It was a chicken or the egg thing for me ... I was de-priming so I could wet clean. Now that I have the universal decapping die I won't have this issue again - at least not from dirty brass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC View Post
Now you must wait,at least 15 min.30is better. The volatile carrier must evaporate before sizing,or you will stick cases.
That might be another problem. I'm sure I only waited a minute or two.

One Shot gets a lot of bad press and yet I know there are a lot of folks who use it with success. What I've normally used is Dillon. These were my first stuck cases in over five years of reloading which is what gets me. It's true, the brass was not cleaned first, but this was not random outdoor range pickup stuff. This was my brass, picked up off a concrete floor. I've done this before.

I can't argue with the fact that I stuck a case; twice. So, I'm left with blaming dirt, or blaming One Shot. The easiest thing would be to avoid both ever gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC View Post
In my experience,the Dillon bench tool ($100) works really well.
And that's what I'll be using. A friend is going to lend me his so I can try it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jugornot View Post
I have never had a stuck case, maybe because of my sequence of operations. I decap everything and then use an ultrasonic cleaner before the brass touches my dies.
And that will be my sequence as well, except I use stainless steel media.

You know you jinxed yourself by saying that though, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_98 View Post
.223 brass is too plentiful to waste time fooling with a bad batch. It is almost painful to let go a batch of nice looking brass, like that FNB appears to be, but the time and effort don't appear to be worth it.
With the universal decapper I had no issues at all so I can salvage the entire batch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
As the others commented, you have a form of what is called a staked crimp on that case.
I can see that in the picture (darned old eyes) and I can definitely see it now that they are cleaned of that sealer.

Like I said, now that I have the universal decapper I won't be tempted to use the sizing/decapping die on dirty brass. I have a pile of brass (including range pickups) that I need to swage so I'll put them in that pile and do them all some Saturday afternoon when I'm bored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
It is better when it doesn't just tear the whole head off the case, as once happened to me. I recommend putting the die in your freezer for a couple of hours before trying it. Brass shrinks a little more than steel does in the cold. If you have dry ice, colder is better.
The die is already out in the mailbox. Hopefully I never have to do this again but if I do I'll be sure to try that too.
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 02:22 PM   #28
gwpercle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 439
Don't forget to get a little tool to remove that pesky crimp with. If you don't cut the crimp completely away it will give you trouble seating new primes.
I use the Lyman Primer Pocket Reamer first, to remove the crimp , then finish up with the Lyman Primer Pocket Uniformer, this makes all the pockets to SAAMI specifications. After the case is done you won't have to do it again.
Gary
gwpercle is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 02:35 PM   #29
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Don't forget to get a little tool to remove that pesky crimp with. If you don't cut the crimp completely away it will give you trouble seating new primes.
I use the Lyman Primer Pocket Reamer first, to remove the crimp , then finish up with the Lyman Primer Pocket Uniformer, this makes all the pockets to SAAMI specifications. After the case is done you won't have to do it again.
Been down that road before ... too tedious for me. I'll be using this:



I'm not sure how much swaged brass I'll need to de-swage before it pays for itself, but that's not important right now!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Super_Swage_600.jpg (64.0 KB, 158 views)
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 04:13 PM   #30
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,160
Me too, I gave it to my brother!

Now I avoid that mil stuff like the plague (have not got said plague since)
__________________
One of the Adorables
RC20 is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 04:36 PM   #31
Stats Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2016
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,348
Like I said. I busted two decapping pins on that exact brass using an RCBS universal decapping die.
I had picked up several at the range and they were in with some other range brass. Staked primers isn't a problem for my decapping dies. They come out a little harder, but nothing remarkable.

However!!!! Off center flash holes are a problem. So I pitched all that worthless stuff because I wasn't going to waste time swaging, cleaning, etc.. brass with flash holes I would be fighting until I got rid of it.
Stats Shooter is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 05:27 PM   #32
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi View Post
Like I said. I busted two decapping pins on that exact brass using an RCBS universal decapping die.
I'm not sure if the Lee decapping pin is more flexible or what, but I de-primed all of my brass with no issues after that first debacle.
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 06:13 PM   #33
KenT7021
Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2016
Posts: 24
Stuck case removers can be made from common items.A nut such as 5/8-11,a fender washer with a 5/16 hole,a 1/4-20 tap,No 7 drill bit,a 1/4-20 socket head screw,and an allen wrench.
KenT7021 is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 08:30 PM   #34
hdwhit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 22, 2017
Posts: 648
Quote:
LBussy wrote:
I tried de-priming this evening. The first one stuck in the die, thanks One-Shot.
Put your cases in a plastic bag. Spray them with One-Shot. Let it have time to dry thoroughly. Every time I have heard of someone getting a case stuck with One-Shot, they didn't wait for it to dry sufficiently.

If you're in a hurry and can't wait for One-Shot to dry, try Hornady Unique or Imperial Sizing Wax.

Quote:
So aside from that I noticed it took a LOT of pressure to get the primer out. They don't seem to be swaged or staked (or are they?).
The primers are clearly staked. See unclenick's post for more information.

Quote:
They are sealed with some green sealant. Anyone ever seen/experienced that?
I have never noticed primer sealant materially increasing the pressure required to decap a case. It seems more like that the additional resistance was caused by the brass having been shot in a "losse" chamber and so required more effort to restore to original dimensions.

Quote:
Finally, and this might contribute to them being hard to de-prime: I noticed that the flash hole is off-center. ...seems very strange to me that they are off-center. Anyone else seen this?
I have not run across FNB headstamp brass before, but I have come across many other headstamps that routinely have the flashhole off-center. If you're a precision (i.e. five shots, one hole) shooter the off-center flash hole could make a difference. Otherwise, it will not.

If you're going to use range brass which may have off-center flashholes or may be Berdan primed, I suggest you get a universal decapping die and decap all your brass early on in your reloading process.
hdwhit is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 08:33 PM   #35
hdwhit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 22, 2017
Posts: 648
Quote:
gwpercle wrote:
Don't forget to get a little tool to remove that pesky crimp with. If you don't cut the crimp completely away it will give you trouble seating new primes.
I choose to ream the primer pocket crimp. I use a 45 degree countersink chucked into a drill press. I raise the case to the spinning countersink, rotate it about a third of a turn between my thumb and index finger and I'm done.
hdwhit is offline  
Old December 11, 2017, 07:23 AM   #36
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenT7021 View Post
Stuck case removers can be made from common items.A nut such as 5/8-11,a fender washer with a 5/16 hole,a 1/4-20 tap,No 7 drill bit,a 1/4-20 socket head screw,and an allen wrench.
All of the stuck case removers I have seen rely on the ability to drill a hole. If you'll notice the decapping pin is still in there and I can't get it out either.

The die is on it's way back to Lee for ... well, to let the guys at Lee see how badly I screwed things up and give them a good laugh.
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old December 11, 2017, 09:37 AM   #37
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 2,775
Looking at the mangled rim in he OP, you are not removing the stuck case properly.

This is a 24 second video showing you the entire process to remove a stuck case from Lee dies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylp3fsYrEVw

If you are more of a reader than watcher the directions are also in the instructions that come with the dies, #2 Stuck case
https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/RM3508.pdf

Now that you got it out, find the nearest trash can and deposit the Hornady oneshot in it and go get some decent case lube before proceeding.

I suppose you can get away with using the spray one shot on pistol cases but I don’t like it for rifle and it looks like your results are not any better. If you want to stick (no pun intended) to Hornady products use their unique case lube, it’s about 1.2 billion times better, for rifle cases.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/75...-lube-4-oz-tub

Last edited by jmorris; December 11, 2017 at 09:43 AM.
jmorris is offline  
Old December 11, 2017, 10:05 AM   #38
USSR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2017
Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY
Posts: 146
I've put this formula out before, so I'll put it out once again for those who have missed it. Put away the Hornady One Stuck, this is MUCH better and cheaper to boot. This homemade lanolin spray lube is the only way to go for bottleneck cases. I processed brass commercially for a guy with a Type 6 FFL for several years, and here is the recipe I used:

First, buy a 4 ounce bottle of liquid lanolin online (Amazon or eBay) for about $8. Second, buy a bottle of HEET fuel line antifreeze ($3), available at Walmart or any automotive supply store. Then buy a cheap plastic spray bottle at a local Dollar store. Heat some water on the stove, then turn it off. Place the bottles of lanolin and HEET into the hot water, BUT NOT WITH A FLAME UNDER THE WATER. Now pour 1/4 of the warmed up lanolin bottle (1 ounce) and all of the warmed up HEET bottle (12 ounces) into the spray bottle and shake to mix the contents. You now have one of the best lubes there is that will last for 1,000's of cases. To use it, dump your brass into either a box or large plastic bag, give it a couple of squirts, and shake and roll the brass around to distribute the lube evenly. You will be be amazed at how well this lube works and will never use anything else again. To remove the lube after sizing, dump the brass into your dry tumbler, add a shot of mineral spirits and tumble for 20 minutes. It's that simple. However, if you insist on using One Stuck, here is another Hornady product to order with it:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...k-case-remover

Hope that helps.

Don
__________________
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
USSR is offline  
Old December 11, 2017, 10:13 AM   #39
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris View Post
Looking at the mangled rim in he OP, you are not removing the stuck case properly.

This is a 24 second video showing you the entire process to remove a stuck case from Lee dies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylp3fsYrEVw

If you are more of a reader than watcher the directions are also in the instructions that come with the dies, #2 Stuck case
https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/RM3508.pdf
I tried that. It was not budging and if you had it in your hand you would see it started to bulge the end of the case. Here's the PDF instructions for those following along at home:

Quote:
Stuck Case If a case is not lubricated, the rim will be pulled off and the case remains stuck in the die. If this happens — loosen, but do not remove the decapper clamp with a 3/4” and 1/2” wrench. Use a 3/16” drift punch and large hammer (1-lb. or larger) to tap on the decapper rod and drive the stuck case free. Lee Precision will remove a stuck case for $6.00.
The rim is mangled because, as you suspected, I used vice grips after that to try to get it out. No luck there either. I'm pretty sure the folks @ Lee will have to toss it and send me a new one. That or they will mount it on the wall of shame. I'm sure they have one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris View Post
Now that you got it out, find the nearest trash can and deposit the Hornady oneshot in it and go get some decent case lube before proceeding.

I suppose you can get away with using the spray one shot on pistol cases but I don’t like it for rifle and it looks like your results are not any better. If you want to stick (no pun intended) to Hornady products use their unique case lube, it’s about 1.2 billion times better, for rifle cases.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/75...-lube-4-oz-tub
I'm either going back to the Dillon lube ($$) or something on a pad. I'll save the One-Shot for ... I don't know. Something not having to do with a rifle cartridge and a sizing die. As I've said, I know there are people that use it with good results but I won't do it again.
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old December 13, 2017, 04:28 PM   #40
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 203
Closing the loop on this:

The nice lady at Lee called today and told me it was not the worst they have ever seen. She's probably supposed to say that to make me feel better. Long story short: $6 and it's on it's way back to me.
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old December 13, 2017, 05:30 PM   #41
Stats Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2016
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,348
I make my own Dillon type lube.
8 parts 99% alcohol and 1 part liquid lanolin.

Why 8-1? Because the alcohol I bought was in 16 oz bottles and the lanolin a 4oz container...so 2 bottles of alcohol and one container of lanolin makes an easy 8-1.

I think 36 oz of lube cost me $12....and 8 oz will do about 5,000 rounds +/- 500 or so
Stats Shooter is offline  
Old December 13, 2017, 06:02 PM   #42
jpx2rk
Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2015
Posts: 76
Suggest you buy some extra de-capping pins for the Lee de-capping die. You WILL bend the pin eventually, so go ahead and get some. Just have to R&R the bent pin and continue on with the decapping.
jpx2rk is offline  
Old December 13, 2017, 06:27 PM   #43
Smoke & Recoil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: East shore of Lake Michigan.
Posts: 575
The Lee #90292 has no replaceable pin by design...check it out jpx2rk , it's a nice outfit.
__________________
No matter what I have to say, someone always finds a need to one-up me...human nature I guess.
Smoke & Recoil is offline  
Old December 13, 2017, 06:30 PM   #44
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 801
I doubt the problem is with One Shot. Been using it since it came out and have never ever stuck a case. Came close one time but with the pressure I was putting on the ram I was certain I was gonna stick one so backed it out and re-lubed, cleaned the die and started over. No problem. You should know from the pressure your putting on the ram if you have a problem. Stop there and figure out why. Normally it's not the tools and it's not the lube; other than you simply didn't get the lube on it
Don Fischer is offline  
Old December 13, 2017, 07:30 PM   #45
KenT7021
Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2016
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBussy View Post
All of the stuck case removers I have seen rely on the ability to drill a hole. If you'll notice the decapping pin is still in there and I can't get it out either.

The die is on it's way back to Lee for ... well, to let the guys at Lee see how badly I screwed things up and give them a good laugh.
I avoid Lee dies but it is normally possible to unscrew the decapper/expander to get enough room to drill and tap the case.
KenT7021 is offline  
Old December 14, 2017, 08:47 AM   #46
LBussy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2012
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenT7021 View Post
I avoid Lee dies but it is normally possible to unscrew the decapper/expander to get enough room to drill and tap the case.
I have no doubt that it is "normally" possible. It just wasn't this time.
__________________
-- Lee
Bad decisions make good stories.
LBussy is offline  
Old December 14, 2017, 06:28 PM   #47
jpx2rk
Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2015
Posts: 76
Hey Smoke & Recoil;

what would this be then?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/27...apping-die-pin
jpx2rk is offline  
Old December 14, 2017, 07:39 PM   #48
DaleA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 3,812
LBussy---I think you deserve some credit for posting the whole saga here and including pictures...something I find very frustrating to do. Thanks.
DaleA is offline  
Old December 14, 2017, 08:00 PM   #49
Smoke & Recoil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: East shore of Lake Michigan.
Posts: 575
@ jpx2rk,
Yes, you are correct...you and I were thinking differently. The Lee Universal Deprime die (pin) will push up out of the crush nut when it hits an obstruction, and when it does, it's a very easy reset process.

Not to steal this thread, but has any one ever broken a Lee Universal Deprime pin ?
__________________
No matter what I have to say, someone always finds a need to one-up me...human nature I guess.
Smoke & Recoil is offline  
Old December 14, 2017, 08:31 PM   #50
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,527
Some FNB cases were among a big bunch i picked up at the Ft. Sill private weapons range. Chunk them in the recycle bucket. They're not worth the trouble.
thallub is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.15209 seconds with 9 queries