Some Rudimentary Questions while Preparing for my First BP Percussion Revolver - Page 2

g.willikers · December 16, 2016, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Easing the hammer down is considered a bad habit with 1911's

More for safety sake than the guns sake.
Hang on to the hammer until it's fully down and the gun don't care.
Same with the percussion revolver.
I clean smoke poles with soap and water, then blow the water out with brake cleaner and lightly oil with auto trans fluid.
Only because sperm whales are so hard to catch.

Hawg · December 16, 2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Yeah Hawg I was wanting to find out from Foolz. Says he doesn't have rust problems, but didn't specify how long he has left his guns after shooting

I keep saying it because IMO Pyrodex is a good powder with an undeserved reputation and a lot of people are scared off by it. I don't expect anybody to go three days much less nine without cleaning but if I can go nine then they don't need to worry about their guns turning into rust buckets in a few hours or even overnight.

roashooter · December 16, 2016, 02:56 PM

Muzzleloaders tend to destroy themselves if not maintained. Unfortunately, muzzleloaders can destroy themselves even IF maintained, but not fastidiously maintained. While this might be good for new gun sales, it rarely is good for your wallet.

Much of this is perpetuated by the marketing drivel and bad information that has come from powder and gun manufacturers for years. Tell a lie long enough and loud enough and it tends to stick. Sadly, some of it has stuck and muzzleloading consumers are the ones it usually gets stuck to.

Most metals do require reasonable care. Muzzleloaders come in a couple of popular forms, pre-rusted and not pre-rusted. There is “pretty rust” and not-so-pretty rust. You might be surprised at this notion. Gun metal “blue” is typically not blue at all, it is black. Black oxide, which is cosmetically more appealing than red oxide (“rust”) is a common gun barrel finish. It serves primarily as a medium to retain oil, eliminating direct air contact with the surface of the metal.

Stainless (or “stainless finish”) muzzleloaders often have little or nothing in the way of surface coatings. While still capable of rusting, the chromium content of the steel slows this propensity. In either case, the exterior finishes are easily maintained, as they are both visible and accessible. What goes on deep inside your barrel is quite another matter. The most important factor that dictates maintenance needs is the propellant we choose. Ranking muzzleloader propellants by what they do to our barrels makes appropriate powder selection a simple matter. I’m listing them from the WORST to the BEST, based on my experience.

PYRODEX

With little question, Pyrodex is the nastiest, most invasive propellant in common use. It is harder on most barrel metals than organic powder (“blackpowder”) and can etch stainless steel barrels, as noted by Doc White many years ago. It stinks and it sucks. With the huge negatives associated with Pyrodex, the most available barrel-rotter of the day, it might seem puzzling why the stuff gets used at all?

Well, it gets used because it works. Even though it is corrosive, moisture-sucking and has a poor shelf life, it is consistent, cheap to make and easy enough to use in so-called “blackpowder rifles.” Pyrodex has done a lot of things. It is dangerous enough to manufacture that it cost its inventor his life, yet so cheap to make in quantity it has made a fortune for Hodgdon Powder and set the stage for their monopoly of the “black powder substitute” market. By virtue of its current ease of shipment (compared to blackpowder) and widespread availability it has become a standard of sorts, even if the standard it has set defines dirty, corrosive, smelly and filthy.

BLACKPOWDER

Organic blackpowder is less damaging to gun barrels than Pyrodex. Its easy ignition means that it is still the best choice for many applications. No other material is as suitable for pan powder and a variety of military and avalanche control applications. In fact, blackpowder is added as the “igniter pad” to Pyrodex pellets, where the loading of a pellet backwards may result in a misfire for #11 capped firearms.

Many, many current muzzleloading enthusiasts have never tried black powder. This isn’t likely to change, despite its easy ignition and cheap cost that make it the only suitable choice for some uses. Poor distribution and restrictive shipping and storage regulations have made it cumbersome and costly to make available in many areas.

44 Dave · December 16, 2016, 08:16 PM

The only time I lube over the ball is when I max load the cylinder with powder, so there is no room left for a wad under.
Max loads are only "defense" loads lighter loads are more accurate.

noelf2 · December 16, 2016, 09:53 PM

Quote:

It is harder on most barrel metals than organic powder (“blackpowder”) and can etch stainless steel barrels, as noted by Doc White many years ago.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/doc_white2.htm

Beagle333 · December 16, 2016, 10:20 PM

Thanks noelf2 for the whole story.

drobs · December 17, 2016, 09:00 AM

Most of the members here have way more years at it then I do but I like lubed felt wad under the ball over the powder. Less mess.

I use T/C Bore Butter on the arbor. I keep my tube of it out in my freezing cold garage, found my tube of it to be pretty solid the other day. Still was able to scoop some out with a Cue-Tip.

Water for cleaning the barrel and chamber / cylinders. Followed a by a spray of my current gun oil.

Also like to run a couple Hoppe's #9 patches down the barrel.

Hawg and I posted some target pictures the other day in this thread.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=581898
I left out Ox Yoke Wonder wads in my description and 2 hands standing.

You ought to look into making your own lubed felt / wool wads. Save some dollars there and less mess than lubing over the ball

foolzrushn · December 17, 2016, 11:20 AM

Depends on how tired/how late/where I shoot. I prefer as soon as convenient, but have waited several days when things didn't work out. I clean at home but can't shoot there.

And thanks for the link to Doc White, noelf2.

maillemaker · December 17, 2016, 11:28 AM

I started shooting with Pyrodex in my BP starter kit guns I bought from Walmart because that's all I had.

I did not clean them right away, and when I pulled it out a couple of days later the face of the cylinder and the arbor had started serious corrosion - worse than I have ever seen with true black powder.

This is an anecdote and not data, but it's enough to convince me that if I was to shoot Pyrodex again I'd make sure to clean it right away.

Steve

December 16, 2016, 10:20 PM	#31
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Thanks noelf2 for the whole story. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

December 17, 2016, 09:00 AM	#32
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Most of the members here have way more years at it then I do but I like lubed felt wad under the ball over the powder. Less mess. I use T/C Bore Butter on the arbor. I keep my tube of it out in my freezing cold garage, found my tube of it to be pretty solid the other day. Still was able to scoop some out with a Cue-Tip. Water for cleaning the barrel and chamber / cylinders. Followed a by a spray of my current gun oil. Also like to run a couple Hoppe's #9 patches down the barrel. Hawg and I posted some target pictures the other day in this thread. https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=581898 I left out Ox Yoke Wonder wads in my description and 2 hands standing. You ought to look into making your own lubed felt / wool wads. Save some dollars there and less mess than lubing over the ball __________________ NRA Life Member

December 17, 2016, 11:20 AM	#33
foolzrushn Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2015 Location: middle of the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 396	when do I clean? Depends on how tired/how late/where I shoot. I prefer as soon as convenient, but have waited several days when things didn't work out. I clean at home but can't shoot there. And thanks for the link to Doc White, noelf2. __________________ If you feel that you're pretty important...you should think about your significance to the Universe....and re-evaluate ! certified 'soap welder'

December 16, 2016, 02:56 PM	#28
roashooter Junior member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Posts: 508	Muzzleloaders tend to destroy themselves if not maintained. Unfortunately, muzzleloaders can destroy themselves even IF maintained, but not fastidiously maintained. While this might be good for new gun sales, it rarely is good for your wallet. Much of this is perpetuated by the marketing drivel and bad information that has come from powder and gun manufacturers for years. Tell a lie long enough and loud enough and it tends to stick. Sadly, some of it has stuck and muzzleloading consumers are the ones it usually gets stuck to. Most metals do require reasonable care. Muzzleloaders come in a couple of popular forms, pre-rusted and not pre-rusted. There is “pretty rust” and not-so-pretty rust. You might be surprised at this notion. Gun metal “blue” is typically not blue at all, it is black. Black oxide, which is cosmetically more appealing than red oxide (“rust”) is a common gun barrel finish. It serves primarily as a medium to retain oil, eliminating direct air contact with the surface of the metal. Stainless (or “stainless finish”) muzzleloaders often have little or nothing in the way of surface coatings. While still capable of rusting, the chromium content of the steel slows this propensity. In either case, the exterior finishes are easily maintained, as they are both visible and accessible. What goes on deep inside your barrel is quite another matter. The most important factor that dictates maintenance needs is the propellant we choose. Ranking muzzleloader propellants by what they do to our barrels makes appropriate powder selection a simple matter. I’m listing them from the WORST to the BEST, based on my experience. PYRODEX With little question, Pyrodex is the nastiest, most invasive propellant in common use. It is harder on most barrel metals than organic powder (“blackpowder”) and can etch stainless steel barrels, as noted by Doc White many years ago. It stinks and it sucks. With the huge negatives associated with Pyrodex, the most available barrel-rotter of the day, it might seem puzzling why the stuff gets used at all? Well, it gets used because it works. Even though it is corrosive, moisture-sucking and has a poor shelf life, it is consistent, cheap to make and easy enough to use in so-called “blackpowder rifles.” Pyrodex has done a lot of things. It is dangerous enough to manufacture that it cost its inventor his life, yet so cheap to make in quantity it has made a fortune for Hodgdon Powder and set the stage for their monopoly of the “black powder substitute” market. By virtue of its current ease of shipment (compared to blackpowder) and widespread availability it has become a standard of sorts, even if the standard it has set defines dirty, corrosive, smelly and filthy. BLACKPOWDER Organic blackpowder is less damaging to gun barrels than Pyrodex. Its easy ignition means that it is still the best choice for many applications. No other material is as suitable for pan powder and a variety of military and avalanche control applications. In fact, blackpowder is added as the “igniter pad” to Pyrodex pellets, where the loading of a pellet backwards may result in a misfire for #11 capped firearms. Many, many current muzzleloading enthusiasts have never tried black powder. This isn’t likely to change, despite its easy ignition and cheap cost that make it the only suitable choice for some uses. Poor distribution and restrictive shipping and storage regulations have made it cumbersome and costly to make available in many areas.

December 16, 2016, 08:16 PM	#29
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	The only time I lube over the ball is when I max load the cylinder with powder, so there is no room left for a wad under. Max loads are only "defense" loads lighter loads are more accurate.

December 17, 2016, 11:28 AM	#34
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	I started shooting with Pyrodex in my BP starter kit guns I bought from Walmart because that's all I had. I did not clean them right away, and when I pulled it out a couple of days later the face of the cylinder and the arbor had started serious corrosion - worse than I have ever seen with true black powder. This is an anecdote and not data, but it's enough to convince me that if I was to shoot Pyrodex again I'd make sure to clean it right away. Steve