Possible Data Misprint 45-70, IMR 3031

jimmy_mn · January 8, 2011, 07:50 PM

I am loading up some .45-70 for my Marlin 1895 for the first time tonight (new caliber, not new to reloading). I am loading a 350gr Hornady Interlock bullet. None of my books (Lee, Speer, Hodgdons manuals) had anything for this specific bullet with IMR 3031 so I turned to the Reloading Center on http://data.hodgdon.com

They list a load for IMR 3031 but based on other things I am afraid that is way hot! The numbers seemed odd as I remembered reading in "40 Years with the 45/70" that Paul Matthews was loading something like 54 grains with one of his loads and he considered that hot and he shoots single shots! The velocities listed seem higher and consistent with what you might expect so I went ahead and started reloading but reduced their starting load to 56grains rather than 56.5. I was shocked when I loaded 3 rounds how it was already VERY close to a compressed load. You certainly cannot hear powder when shaking the cartridge. So before I reloaded more than 3 rounds I did some further digging online and turned up a load at handloads.com with specific warnings about 1895 and his specific load and it's less than what I started with!! I'd love to continue loading up some IMR 3031 tonight but I don't know where to go next. I'm tempted to run to Cabelas before they close to see if the Hornady book has some data.

Hodgdons, Even says at the top of the page that loads are for 1895 Marlins

Handloads.com

jimmy_mn · January 8, 2011, 08:05 PM

Found another post on marlinowners.com with the same question/issue but while it makes me feel better that this isn't something I discovered I am still wondering where to start.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/i...c=43672.0;wap2

totaldla · January 8, 2011, 11:38 PM

The data seems suspect. It looks like Ruger #1 loads because the velocities have to be from a 24"+ barrel. Also, there's no correlation between CUP & PSI, and that pressure is pretty darned high for the weeny Marlin action.

There is this line of thinking that the 1895 is just fine at 40K psi. Problem is that guys then push right up past that, thinking they can turn their 45-70 into a .458W. And the 1895 action stretches out, they get case head separations and other funky stuff.

The Ruger #1 can handle 50Kpsi just fine and folks publish load data for it. The Winchester 1886 can probably handle over 40K psi too. And somehow the data gets confused and folks make some goofy loads for their Marlins.

No matter how hard somebody pushes it, you just can't flatten out the trajectory enough to matter.

52grs behind a Rem 405gr JSP is a pretty warm load out of a Guide Gun. So I would guess that the same or maybe 2 more grains would be an OK load behind a 350gr. But if I were you, I wouldn't play this game without a chronograph. If you hit 2000fps out of a 18.5" tube then you've hit the limit IMO. 3031 is pretty temp sensitive, and this time of year you'll be at least 100fps slower than during warm weather.

ipscchef · January 9, 2011, 12:27 AM

That load sounds a little too warm to me also. the only real world data I can give you is from what a freind and I loaded a Ruger #3 for. we found Max was 53.5gr.3031 under a 300gr. Hornady. That load IN THAT GUN, WAS VERY WARM AND VERY FAST, AND WE DID NOT WANT TO EXCEED THAT. This is the only real world experience I can give you. I have loaded some pretty hot stuff for my 1895, I got my data from "Beartooth Bullets.com". They may be able to give you some info to help you. I am loading a 525gr. cast of their design, for no particular reason other than if I see a T-Rex in Pa.

.
Anyhoo, I agree with Totaldla, these numbers seem a little "Too Warm"
Welcome to TFL

!! Great place, real good info!!
Willy

Brian Pfleuger · January 9, 2011, 09:48 AM

Hodgdon's published data is pretty well-known for being hot. Sometimes too hot.

January 9, 2011, 12:27 AM	#4
ipscchef Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: South Central Pa. Posts: 427	Just my .02$- (.01$ after our Dear Leader gets his cut) That load sounds a little too warm to me also. the only real world data I can give you is from what a freind and I loaded a Ruger #3 for. we found Max was 53.5gr.3031 under a 300gr. Hornady. That load IN THAT GUN, WAS VERY WARM AND VERY FAST, AND WE DID NOT WANT TO EXCEED THAT. This is the only real world experience I can give you. I have loaded some pretty hot stuff for my 1895, I got my data from "Beartooth Bullets.com". They may be able to give you some info to help you. I am loading a 525gr. cast of their design, for no particular reason other than if I see a T-Rex in Pa.. Anyhoo, I agree with Totaldla, these numbers seem a little "Too Warm" Welcome to TFL!! Great place, real good info!! Willy __________________ Don' keep shooting them until you think they are dead, Keep shooting them until they think they are dead.- Clint Smith

January 9, 2011, 09:48 AM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Hodgdon's published data is pretty well-known for being hot. Sometimes too hot. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 8, 2011, 07:50 PM	#1
jimmy_mn Junior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Posts: 5	Possible Data Misprint 45-70, IMR 3031 I am loading up some .45-70 for my Marlin 1895 for the first time tonight (new caliber, not new to reloading). I am loading a 350gr Hornady Interlock bullet. None of my books (Lee, Speer, Hodgdons manuals) had anything for this specific bullet with IMR 3031 so I turned to the Reloading Center on http://data.hodgdon.com They list a load for IMR 3031 but based on other things I am afraid that is way hot! The numbers seemed odd as I remembered reading in "40 Years with the 45/70" that Paul Matthews was loading something like 54 grains with one of his loads and he considered that hot and he shoots single shots! The velocities listed seem higher and consistent with what you might expect so I went ahead and started reloading but reduced their starting load to 56grains rather than 56.5. I was shocked when I loaded 3 rounds how it was already VERY close to a compressed load. You certainly cannot hear powder when shaking the cartridge. So before I reloaded more than 3 rounds I did some further digging online and turned up a load at handloads.com with specific warnings about 1895 and his specific load and it's less than what I started with!! I'd love to continue loading up some IMR 3031 tonight but I don't know where to go next. I'm tempted to run to Cabelas before they close to see if the Hornady book has some data. Hodgdons, Even says at the top of the page that loads are for 1895 Marlins Handloads.com

January 8, 2011, 08:05 PM	#2
jimmy_mn Junior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Posts: 5	Found another post on marlinowners.com with the same question/issue but while it makes me feel better that this isn't something I discovered I am still wondering where to start. http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/i...c=43672.0;wap2

January 8, 2011, 11:38 PM	#3
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,291	The data seems suspect. It looks like Ruger #1 loads because the velocities have to be from a 24"+ barrel. Also, there's no correlation between CUP & PSI, and that pressure is pretty darned high for the weeny Marlin action. There is this line of thinking that the 1895 is just fine at 40K psi. Problem is that guys then push right up past that, thinking they can turn their 45-70 into a .458W. And the 1895 action stretches out, they get case head separations and other funky stuff. The Ruger #1 can handle 50Kpsi just fine and folks publish load data for it. The Winchester 1886 can probably handle over 40K psi too. And somehow the data gets confused and folks make some goofy loads for their Marlins. No matter how hard somebody pushes it, you just can't flatten out the trajectory enough to matter. 52grs behind a Rem 405gr JSP is a pretty warm load out of a Guide Gun. So I would guess that the same or maybe 2 more grains would be an OK load behind a 350gr. But if I were you, I wouldn't play this game without a chronograph. If you hit 2000fps out of a 18.5" tube then you've hit the limit IMO. 3031 is pretty temp sensitive, and this time of year you'll be at least 100fps slower than during warm weather. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube Last edited by totaldla; January 8, 2011 at 11:48 PM.