Powder for .308

ligonierbill · February 16, 2018, 09:16 AM

Loading 150-165 hunting bullets, and I have a good load with Re-15. What experience do you have (good or bad) with: TAC (Nosler likes it), CFE223 (Hornady likes it) and IMR-4320. I have all of those, but no Varget. If Varget is the bee's knees, then I might have to buy some, but not just now.

IMR-4320 is in there because I have an 8-lb jug. When powder was scarce, I went looking for a substitute for Re-15 for .300 Savage and got a good price on it. It does OK in the Savage, but the shortage is over (for now). It does OK in a number of rounds, actually.

So, what say you?

Charlie98 · February 16, 2018, 09:55 AM

Depends on the barrel length... but shorter barrels in .308 get IMR3031, longer barrels, say 20" and up, get IMR4064, particularly in that bullet weight range.

OzeanJaeger · February 16, 2018, 10:56 AM

I think Varget is the bees-knees. I can't give you a scientific reason why, but I seem to be able to tune the cartridges and find the sweet spots more easily, and I've never been stumped or dead ended with it (I have with a lot of other powders).

Out of the ones you list I like 3420. I try to stay as close to 100% capacity as possible, and preferably at a slightly compressed load. There are probably people who disagree with me, but I think it offers a consistency that is difficult to replicate with the powder sloshing around in empty case space.

I'd start working it right below a full case and go up from there.

Wendyj · February 16, 2018, 11:04 AM

I would agree with above post. Varget has always done best for me. I couldn't find any 3-4 years ago when I started reloading and used 4064 and occasionally will still try some but keep all the Varget I can get my hands on.

Dufus · February 16, 2018, 11:18 AM

You were asking about IMR4320. I think it is the hidden gold in a 308 Win.

Excellent powder in that cartridge and as good as any other.

Since you have it on hand, dont' let it sit on the shelf. Use it and you will be very surprised.

hounddawg · February 16, 2018, 12:44 PM

What Dufus said. I am a Varget fan myself because I can load anything from a .204 to a .308 with it but if I had several pounds of 4320 sitting on the shelf that is what I would be loading

Sure Shot Mc Gee · February 16, 2018, 01:29 PM

Been so long that I don't recall if I use 4320 or not. Although I know I have near a pound of here. Don't shoot a 308. Found no need to own one since I own 2 _Savage 99 300's. Savage 300's aren't as fast in their get-go as the 308 is. But unlike the 308? I can tell when a deer is hammered hard by my 300. Especially handy when the animal where-with-all to get itself back into the woods after being targeted on a hay field.
Something I cant (figure out) with a 308 hit.
Given some extra thought. I think way back when I reloaded that last box of 300's. >4895<was used for the purpose. And that powder may be a good'in for a 308's home reloading

T. O'Heir · February 16, 2018, 01:51 PM

There is no one powder for .308. Varget, IMR4064 and 4320 are very, very close to the same velocities and pressures using a 168. Slightly more powder(like a couple grains) for similar velocities with a 150 too. So it really doesn't make a lot of difference. It'll be up to your rifle to tell you what powder it prefers.

Don Fischer · February 16, 2018, 01:57 PM

Over the years I've used several different powder's. H335, BLC/2, H4895, IMR 4350 and W748. Actually I've never found a powder that wouldn't shoot well in my old 308!

jmr40 · February 16, 2018, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Depends on the barrel length... but shorter barrels in .308 get IMR3031, longer barrels, say 20" and up, get IMR4064, particularly in that bullet weight range.

Barrel length has nothing to do with anything. The fastest and most accurate load from a 26" barrel will also be the fastest and most accurate from a 16" barrel. Even the slowest burning powders burn up within just a few inches. The only way a faster powder might help is if you are shooting 308 in a pistol length barrel.

Varget is my go-to powder, but RL15 is probably just as good. I see more recommendations for IMR4064 as being the most accurate powder than all others combined. I've used all 3 with pretty much equal accuracy and velocity.

I prefer Varget or RL15 because they are more stable in a wide range of temperatures.

std7mag · February 16, 2018, 04:47 PM

Just shoot the RL15 and be happy.

Average Joe · February 16, 2018, 04:51 PM

I use W748 in both .308 and .223. Works well, when I asked my reloading supplier about maybe trying TAC, he laughed at me....

OzeanJaeger · February 16, 2018, 04:54 PM

Wow. Those are wide ranging answers, but I pretty much agree with all of them.
T O'heir is right. They're all pretty close on paper, but the reason they seem to react differently in different rifles remains a mystery.

Learjett · February 16, 2018, 05:04 PM

I use a variety of powders in my long range Remington. I like varget a lot buy my rifle shoots the best with IMR 4064, just can't beat it. My rifle is a heavy barrel 26" with a 1-12 twist. I wish it was a little faster but I can easily stabilize Serria Match Kings to 175 grains at long range.

Whistlebritches · February 16, 2018, 09:13 PM

I use CFE 223 for 150-165 grainers........4064 for 180 gr and up.Excellent velocity/accuracy with the CFE 223.

zipspyder · February 16, 2018, 09:23 PM

I use the tried and true BL/C2 for my .308 and 303. But I'm old school.

NWPilgrim · February 17, 2018, 05:08 AM

BLC-2 and CFE223 for .308. I find they work well for a range of bullet weights. I also like Varget, but it is the first to disappear off the shelves so I had to explore others and really like these two. Though I have not shot it, just from the powder burn rate scale, RL15 ought to be pretty good.

Charlie98 · February 17, 2018, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Barrel length has nothing to do with anything. The fastest and most accurate load from a 26" barrel will also be the fastest and most accurate from a 16" barrel. Even the slowest burning powders burn up within just a few inches.

Actually, it does. I'm not going to derail the OP's thread with a debate on it. You believe what you believe, and I'll do the same, based on my own experience.

HankC1 · February 18, 2018, 06:39 PM

Quote:

I use the tried and true BL/C2 for my .308 and 303.

Do you need magnum primer in winter for BLC2?

zipspyder · February 18, 2018, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Do you need magnum primer in winter for BLC2?

I use magnum primers in all my .308/.303 reloads. That's all I could get locally at the time. Seem to work good in all temps.

Fusion · February 18, 2018, 11:10 PM

Like several others others, I love Varget. That said, if I had other powders on hand, but no Varget, I wouldn't hesitate to try to work up a load with them first.

Marco Califo · February 18, 2018, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Do you need magnum primer in winter for BLC2?

Yes. BLC2 is a ball propellant used in the USGI 7.62 round and military primers are magnum. Summer, winter, no matter. Use the magnum primers. Ball powders have a deterrent coating, and less space for the flame to move around, so they can be harder to ignite consistently. I understand that as the case volume/powder stack, increases, and powder speed decreases the benefits of magnum primers are greater. They will go bang with regular primers.
Taken to an extreme, I have loaded 308 full of WC872 (VERY slow), and even with magnum primers, it leaves a trail of unburned granules down the bore.
Extruded powders like 4895, 4064, Varget, etc, are easier to ignite with regular primers. Usually these extruded powders are treated to have some degree of temperature insensitivity.

I use CCI #34 mil spec primers for 308.
"Specifications and Features:
Mil Spec Sensitivity
Non-Corrosive
Initiator mixed for ball powder
Easy to seat"

Back to OP's question, see this link to Hodgdon's burn rate chart and powders #80 to #115 (I have used data for many from #83 to #106) is the general range of appropriate powers for 7.62/308. ALWAYS consult published reloading data. Burn rate charts are NOT reloading data.
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/u...rate-color.pdf

jamaica · February 19, 2018, 12:53 AM

IMR 4320 should do nicely if you already have some. Give it a whirl.

zipspyder · February 19, 2018, 08:52 AM

Thanks for the info Marco. Nice to know I was using the correct ones.

Rimfire5 · February 19, 2018, 11:08 AM

For two of my 308s, the best powders are IMR 4064, H4895 and N140 in that order.
For the third .308, the best powders are N140, H4895 and RL-15 in that order.
Each of the rifles have shot over 1000 groups with lots of powders and lots of bullet weights.
The third rifle has been retired after well over 6500 rounds due to excessive throat erosion.

Shooting conditions make a difference and I am a lot better shooter now and the third rifle is older and many of the groups were shot without the changes in my technique so I don't trust the data as much.

February 16, 2018, 09:55 AM	#2
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	Depends on the barrel length... but shorter barrels in .308 get IMR3031, longer barrels, say 20" and up, get IMR4064, particularly in that bullet weight range. __________________ _______________ "I have this pistol pointed at your heart!" "That is my least vulnerable spot."

February 16, 2018, 11:04 AM	#4
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	I would agree with above post. Varget has always done best for me. I couldn't find any 3-4 years ago when I started reloading and used 4064 and occasionally will still try some but keep all the Varget I can get my hands on. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

February 16, 2018, 12:44 PM	#6
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	What Dufus said. I am a Varget fan myself because I can load anything from a .204 to a .308 with it but if I had several pounds of 4320 sitting on the shelf that is what I would be loading __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; February 16, 2018 at 03:08 PM.

February 17, 2018, 05:08 AM	#17
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	BLC-2 and CFE223 for .308. I find they work well for a range of bullet weights. I also like Varget, but it is the first to disappear off the shelves so I had to explore others and really like these two. Though I have not shot it, just from the powder burn rate scale, RL15 ought to be pretty good. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

February 16, 2018, 09:16 AM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Powder for .308 Loading 150-165 hunting bullets, and I have a good load with Re-15. What experience do you have (good or bad) with: TAC (Nosler likes it), CFE223 (Hornady likes it) and IMR-4320. I have all of those, but no Varget. If Varget is the bee's knees, then I might have to buy some, but not just now. IMR-4320 is in there because I have an 8-lb jug. When powder was scarce, I went looking for a substitute for Re-15 for .300 Savage and got a good price on it. It does OK in the Savage, but the shortage is over (for now). It does OK in a number of rounds, actually. So, what say you?

February 16, 2018, 10:56 AM	#3
OzeanJaeger Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2014 Posts: 301	I think Varget is the bees-knees. I can't give you a scientific reason why, but I seem to be able to tune the cartridges and find the sweet spots more easily, and I've never been stumped or dead ended with it (I have with a lot of other powders). Out of the ones you list I like 3420. I try to stay as close to 100% capacity as possible, and preferably at a slightly compressed load. There are probably people who disagree with me, but I think it offers a consistency that is difficult to replicate with the powder sloshing around in empty case space. I'd start working it right below a full case and go up from there.

February 16, 2018, 11:18 AM	#5
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	You were asking about IMR4320. I think it is the hidden gold in a 308 Win. Excellent powder in that cartridge and as good as any other. Since you have it on hand, dont' let it sit on the shelf. Use it and you will be very surprised.

February 16, 2018, 01:29 PM	#7
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Been so long that I don't recall if I use 4320 or not. Although I know I have near a pound of here. Don't shoot a 308. Found no need to own one since I own 2 _Savage 99 300's. Savage 300's aren't as fast in their get-go as the 308 is. But unlike the 308? I can tell when a deer is hammered hard by my 300. Especially handy when the animal where-with-all to get itself back into the woods after being targeted on a hay field. Something I cant (figure out) with a 308 hit. Given some extra thought. I think way back when I reloaded that last box of 300's. >4895<was used for the purpose. And that powder may be a good'in for a 308's home reloading

February 16, 2018, 01:51 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	There is no one powder for .308. Varget, IMR4064 and 4320 are very, very close to the same velocities and pressures using a 168. Slightly more powder(like a couple grains) for similar velocities with a 150 too. So it really doesn't make a lot of difference. It'll be up to your rifle to tell you what powder it prefers. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 16, 2018, 01:57 PM	#9
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Over the years I've used several different powder's. H335, BLC/2, H4895, IMR 4350 and W748. Actually I've never found a powder that wouldn't shoot well in my old 308!

February 16, 2018, 04:47 PM	#11
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Just shoot the RL15 and be happy.

February 16, 2018, 04:51 PM	#12
Average Joe Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,325	I use W748 in both .308 and .223. Works well, when I asked my reloading supplier about maybe trying TAC, he laughed at me....

February 16, 2018, 04:54 PM	#13
OzeanJaeger Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2014 Posts: 301	Wow. Those are wide ranging answers, but I pretty much agree with all of them. T O'heir is right. They're all pretty close on paper, but the reason they seem to react differently in different rifles remains a mystery.

February 16, 2018, 05:04 PM	#14
Learjett Junior Member Join Date: October 31, 2014 Posts: 6	I use a variety of powders in my long range Remington. I like varget a lot buy my rifle shoots the best with IMR 4064, just can't beat it. My rifle is a heavy barrel 26" with a 1-12 twist. I wish it was a little faster but I can easily stabilize Serria Match Kings to 175 grains at long range.

February 16, 2018, 09:13 PM	#15
Whistlebritches Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2017 Location: Northwest Texas Posts: 107	I use CFE 223 for 150-165 grainers........4064 for 180 gr and up.Excellent velocity/accuracy with the CFE 223.

February 16, 2018, 09:23 PM	#16
zipspyder Junior member Join Date: June 13, 2017 Posts: 429	I use the tried and true BL/C2 for my .308 and 303. But I'm old school.

February 18, 2018, 11:10 PM	#21
Fusion Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2010 Posts: 429	Like several others others, I love Varget. That said, if I had other powders on hand, but no Varget, I wouldn't hesitate to try to work up a load with them first.

February 19, 2018, 12:53 AM	#23
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	IMR 4320 should do nicely if you already have some. Give it a whirl.

February 19, 2018, 08:52 AM	#24
zipspyder Junior member Join Date: June 13, 2017 Posts: 429	Thanks for the info Marco. Nice to know I was using the correct ones.

February 19, 2018, 11:08 AM	#25
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	For two of my 308s, the best powders are IMR 4064, H4895 and N140 in that order. For the third .308, the best powders are N140, H4895 and RL-15 in that order. Each of the rifles have shot over 1000 groups with lots of powders and lots of bullet weights. The third rifle has been retired after well over 6500 rounds due to excessive throat erosion. Shooting conditions make a difference and I am a lot better shooter now and the third rifle is older and many of the groups were shot without the changes in my technique so I don't trust the data as much.