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Old July 21, 2018, 06:30 PM   #1
stagpanther
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Need help pointers from experienced BLR shooters

This is a spin-off from another thread--hope that's OK. Anyway I purchased my first BLR--returned it because of the very heavy trigger pull--and was sent a new replacement which has exactly the same heavy pull. I guess the message is if you want to have a BLR--you have to accept shooting with a 7lb + triggerpull.

So I'm trying to learn how to shoot the thing with some accuracy--and having big problems. While the trigger pull contributes to it--I'm sure some helpful pointers on technique would help me.

I'm presently just shooting off bag rests on a bench to 100 yds--but I'm getting wild impacts--like 5 to 7" apart. Rings and mount are tight. Today I was testing some ttsx handholds--same thing--s in frustration I got up--walked in to the target to about 40 yds, sat down in the dirt and did a free-hand shot--pap! inside the 2" bull's. I walk out to about 70 yds, sit down in the dirt and take another free-hand shot and pap! shot hits touching the bull's. I go back to the bench, rest the foreend on the front bag, the stock on the rear, and carefully pull the trigger as best I can and poof goes the dirt behind the target--I miss the 10" target altogether.

The muzzle flips pretty badly with each shot--but logically it seems to me there must be something going on in the mechanics of shooting off the bags that's inducing the wild inaccuracy--but I know the rifle is steadier on the bags than when I'm holding and shooting freehand.

Anyone experience this sort of thing? Ideas/suggestions?

thanx
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Old July 22, 2018, 01:07 PM   #2
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Have I found the secret to the grail?

OK--this isn't the first time I've had a gun that I couldn't shoot well (actually, about 50% of them take me a while to figure out) but I think I may have stumbled on the secret to happiness with the BLR (or at least the one I got).

I use the same large bag rests for all my rifle tests--so I know if I do my part I should get pretty good results. That simply wasn't happening with this BLR for some reason. While I suspected the load might have something to do with--still, it shouldn't be THAT much of a factor.

So today I went out with some new loads (140 gr prohunters driven by varget)--this time I only did 3 shots each--because I was previously having such bad results with everything else I didn't want to waste reload components. So yeah--only 3 shots--but still, for a pencil thin sporter barrel...

I spent some time just dry firing off the bags--it really takes me a lot of concentration with a triggerpull of 7lbs or more. With the foreend and stock resting freely on the bags--I noticed the scope picture did a sharp "jag" upon hammer strike. That's when I got the idea to take an old small bag rest I have that has deep ears and fill it tightly with compact sand so that it got a solid grip on the sides of the narrow foreend. In addition to resting the forend between the ears--I also gripped the ears together for extra measure of stability.


This is what I got:






I shot a "control group" load with a charge very close to these--but using the "regular" set up I usually do--and the group opened back up to about 6."

So what accounts for the discrepancies (assuming it wasn't just luck)?


UncleNick and Jim (and anyone else) feel free to step in and tell me I'm off my rocker--but my theory is the inertia of the hammer strike is enough to literally rock the gun off axis from line of sight aim.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7mm 08 140ProHunt 42.0 varget 100yd.jpg (143.7 KB, 346 views)
File Type: jpg 7mm 08 140ProHunt 42.5 varget 100yd.jpg (160.3 KB, 336 views)
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Old July 22, 2018, 03:46 PM   #3
Paul B.
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Try pulling the front bag closer to you so that the trigger guard is right up next to the bag. It's a trick I learned working with Ruger #1's and it's made a difference shooting my BLR in .358 Win. It also made a difference with a Savage M99 in .308 as well. The positioning feels a bit awkward at first but you get used to it. I also had to relieve the barrel channel on the BLR so the forearm rattles a little bit. I'll only suggest that as a last resort though. My BLR is one of the earlier ones with the magazine that hangs down below the receiver.
Dunno if any of that will help in your case. It's just what worked for me.
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Old July 22, 2018, 04:21 PM   #4
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Thanks Paul--I did actually did try that since that sometimes helps even with my AR's. What is the triggerpull like on your BLR? I find it amazing these things come with 7 lb or more when they are advertised at being around 4.5lbs.
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Old July 22, 2018, 04:29 PM   #5
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Any and all lever guns are subject to erratic shots when fired off a rest with the shooters face touching the gun. Here's the problem: every time you put your face to the gun you do so with different amounts of pressure. These guns (and a lot of single shot rifles) with their flexible design change the POI with every minute change of pressure put on the gun by the shooters face and by the placement of the rest under the gun. The best way to shoot these guns is by sitting up as straight as possible, or even by standing behind a very high bench. I shoot a lot of these types of guns. I've gotten to the point where I can shoot them very well if the gun has the built in accuracy. Some do and some don't. Put the front rest/bag back further toward the trigger, sit up as straight as you can, and concentrate on keeping the lightest amount of downward pressure on the gun with your face. If you can stand straight up that's even better. As far as the trigger goes, don't EVER count on the manufacturer giving you a lighter trigger. That's just not going to happen. Find a good (read qualified) gunsmith to work on the trigger for you. Here's one other note: don't blame the trigger. A good shooter won't be put off with a bit heavier trigger if they know how to shoot. Now, seven actual pounds is a bit much. Most people are terrible at guessing trigger weight. Have someone check it with a good trigger scale. I can shoot my big bores at 3-3.5lbs very, very well. Going to a super light trigger on most guns doesn't do as much as the shooter thinks it's going to do. For long range competition it's a great asset. For a hundred yards at a generous target with a hunting gun it's not as great as you might think. Anyway, try some of the things I mentioned and you should see a big improvement. Good luck with this and don't give up. It'll work itself out I'm sure.
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Old July 22, 2018, 04:36 PM   #6
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I use a wheeler trigger gauge--and of the 3 safes full of guns that I have--maybe one or two guns have pulls under 3.5lbs--I simply am too ham-fingered to shoot confidently with much less. But 7lbs up is a lot of compensation to get good shots off--doable, but challenging. Those groups above point to something far shy of terrible, I was really beginning to get very discouraged that there was much hope--at least I know the potential is there. Appreciate the pointers.
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Old July 23, 2018, 04:45 AM   #7
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With the amount of "barrel flip" that rifle generates, I don'[t doubt you're getting erratic groups off the bags. Try holding the foreend in your hand on top of the bags and see if this helps.
I sold and zeroed a BLR in .308 years ago and it was difficult to say the least. Vertical stringing to the max.
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Old July 23, 2018, 05:43 AM   #8
stagpanther
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Quote:
Try holding the foreend in your hand on top of the bags and see if this helps.
I think holding the foreend definitely helps--I did that shooting freehand and got good results. I think by doing so I control the "hammer impact lift." It seems to want to climb and move right when shooting without holding the foreend--which makes sense because that's the "sight jump" I see through the scope when the hammer strikes.
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Old July 23, 2018, 12:55 PM   #9
T. O'Heir
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"...if you want to have a BLR--you have to..." Do a trigger job. Same as any other new firearm. Absolutely any new hunting rifle.
Mind you, with those groups, I'd just sight in. You're done.
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Old July 23, 2018, 08:02 PM   #10
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Went out again today to test my new "BLR shooting theories"--and got similar results to yesterday--only this time I bumped the shot groups up to 4 shots each. Just like yesterday--if I really pinch the foreend in the bag so it doesn't get any sideways or pitch-up when the hammer strikes--this is a stellar shooter! In fact, if I could send a message to Browning--or hope that they read this--I would like to slap them on the head and yell "what were you thinking--sticking such an awful trigger on what is otherwise nearly a masterpiece for lever gun!?"



Here's 42 grs of varget driving the 140 prohunter--not bad



Here's the next up 42.2 grs of varget--OK, with the flier this isn't as good as it looks--but that one I knew I pulled.




The very hard pull makes it very difficult to get a good group--that's actually quite a bit of work and concentration (for me anyway). I can't help but wonder why the heck Browning doesn't at least include an adjustable trigger at that price point--this gun would otherwise be shooting one-hole bugeyes IMO--not to mention make me feel more confident reaching out to longer distances.

Sheesh.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7mm 08 140 prohntr 42,2 varget 100yds.jpg (119.3 KB, 296 views)
File Type: jpg 7mm 08 140 prohntr 42 varget 100yds.jpg (78.4 KB, 298 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0266.JPG (140.8 KB, 291 views)
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Old July 30, 2018, 09:31 AM   #11
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Never had the issues you talk about and my blrs have been older used ones, 308 and 358

And I only ever put reddots on mine

Only issue I have had is that barrel heals up very quickly

But coldbore shots and the next mag is to poa

Not something to pling with, never got a good load with cheaper pistol bullets so stopped trying
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Old July 30, 2018, 09:33 AM   #12
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I shot all my rifles with the foreend IN my hand and back of hand resting on the bag
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Old July 30, 2018, 11:56 AM   #13
stagpanther
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Pretty much what I discovered--if you can keep the foreend steady through the pull--it's a very accurate gun. It just took me a while to figure that out.
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Old July 30, 2018, 02:30 PM   #14
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A 7lb trigger pull is on the heavy side, but not an insurmountable obstacle, especially if the trigger is smooth and crisp.

I have a BLR that I inherited, but have not shot it much, or recently.

A few things to keep in mind, it was never built to be a bench gun, its a deer rifle, with a light weight barrel that heats up rapidly, so group size isn't its forte'. It is intended to be shot from field positions, and I would suggest that when shooting from the bench, you hold the gun in your hands as you would do in the field, and rest your hands and arms on the bench & bags. The difference might surprise you.

Lots of deer hunting takes place when its cold. When its cold, lots of people wear gloves. Winter gloves and a whisper light trigger pull are a BAD combination.

My BLR kicks me harder than any of my other .308s in the same weight class. Its a matter of how the stock fits me. Everybody is a bit different in that regard. Also I must admit that I haven't fired it wearing heavy winter hunting gear, either, so that could be part of the problem. What's perfect wearing a summer t-shirt might not be, when wearing a heavy coat, and vice versa.

I think 3 shot groups are a good standard for a (repeater) deer rifle, after all, if your first couple shots don't do the trick, how often do the deer wait around for shots 4 and 5 ??

Its wonderful if the rifle shoots small groups, but what matters more is the first shot and a followup grouping "minute of deer vitals" at whatever ranges are practical.

Also be aware that taking too low a shooting position at the bench increases felt recoil. Having to lean over and down to get behind the gun on a bench means you are holding the gun differently that when you are shooting in the field standing, kneeling, or sitting your body is more upright, and that makes a difference, too.

Another thing to think about, what is that 7lb trigger going to be like after a few thousand cycles?? (and it doesn't have to be shots). Over time, parts "settle in" and sometimes things get smoother and lighter.

The BLR trigger group is complex compared to many designs, and that makes it difficult to get a good trigger pull easily. You might ask around and see if any smiths specialize in that, I don't know any, but I'm sure there's some around who can do a good job. Be aware that if you take it to just anyone, the results might not be worth what you pay for them. (the BLR isn't unique in that, though). One thing the BLR trigger does do is avoid the possibility of pinching your finger between the trigger and the lever as you work the action. Not that it was ever a problem for me, with other lever guns, so I have my doubts of the benefit of their system...

Because of the stock fit (for me), and the trigger, the BLR isn't my favorite deer gun. Damn pretty, though.. And, if I can get past the drawbacks, it does shoot!
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Old July 30, 2018, 03:55 PM   #15
stagpanther
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great advice 44--I did do some free-hand shooting and was quite impressed. I do the bench stuff to zero in on the best hand-load--after that it will be freehand. I often hunt in the winter in deep snow at or below zero--I hear ya on that--that's why I test my loads in cold temps as well as the warm "easy" months--there can be big differences in velocity and POI's. It is a surprisingly heavy pounder on recoil--even in the 7mm 08.
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Old August 2, 2018, 06:32 AM   #16
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Husqvarna and 44 AMP nailed it. Have more than a couple of levers and they are all sighted in with hand gripping fore end, then resting on bag. They are not bench rest rifles.

As an aside, am of opinion most any hunting rifle should be sighted in this way. With no hand gripping the front, your POI can raise. 1 or 2 inches may not sound like a lot, till you get out to several hundred yards and add in the other variables.
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