Walker Colt and Load Variations.

mec · December 3, 2005, 07:20 PM

I started out using ball over 60 grains of swiss 3f. This makes for a very full chamber. Also used the 200 grain Lee Conical over a couple of combinations and found it very energetic. this revolver stiffens up fairly quickly and needs frequent field cleaning for good function.
Even in a high wind, the 4 pound 16" long revolver hangs steady on target

As issued in 1847, they came with bullet moulds casting from one to six picket bullets. I coned my seating stem to fit these from the serious, steel pedersoli mould and got far better accuracy than I expected from bullet of this design:

the 45 grain load has considerable compression -necessary to get the spire point bullet below the chamber mouth. All of the higher end loads seem to generate over 500 foot pounds of energy. Compares favorably to most of the non-magnum modern loads.

For the most part, I taped the loading lever up. It will drop like this every time other wise. As shown, recoil is light and there is an amazing lazer-like jet of flame in all that smoke.

Jbar4Ranch · December 5, 2005, 09:45 PM

I came across one in a pawn shop earlier this year, Pedersoli I think. (How do you tell??) When I got it home, I tacked up a 3" square Post-It note at the 25 yard line and let loose with 60 gr Pyrodex P and six round balls off a sandbag. When the smoke cleared, I was pleasantly surprised to find five holes in the paper and the sixth only a quarter inch off one edge. It's just as accurate with BP and American Pioneer too.

Pictured with a S&W M629

mec · December 9, 2005, 05:45 PM

Pedersoli sells a couple of closed tops made by a german company- replicas, more or less of the Remington 58-63 and the one(cant think of its name) that never saw the light until Bannermans bought up the entire stock 40 years later.

Very likely Uberti or Armi San Marco made yours, They have little markings on the gun ( Uberti usually writes their entire name on the bottom of the barrel under the loadin lever) Pietta uses "FAP" and I'm not sure about ASM. Palmetto also makes a Walker copy but, good as your'es shot, its unlikely it comes from them.

Remington kid · December 9, 2005, 06:28 PM

Mec, Good info and good shooten! I have wanted a Walker for a long time just because of the power but I don't like the weight or size

My Remington can get heavy enough after carrying it around all day in these mountains.

Jbar4Ranch · December 10, 2005, 10:39 AM

Under the loading lever, mine says: CAL .44 BLACK POWDER ONLY-MADE IN ITALY

On the right side of the frame is a small clustering of markings starting with a tiny shield with a circle above it, then the initials PN with a tiny wreath looking thing above it, then a square box with the initials BD inside.

mec · December 10, 2005, 10:50 AM

I seem to have left some of the B series out of the appendix in Percussion Pistols and Revolvers (Aaaarrrrrgggg!) but a BD would put it between 1991 and 1994 -Probably in 1993. PN appears on Ubertis. Good.

Smokin_Gun · December 10, 2005, 03:19 PM

Have a Colt 3rd generation Dragoon with an R&D Drop-in conversiona Cylinder.
The 25 yard target pictured shows in the upper right two 3 shot groups, those are with Paper Envelope Cartidges of 42gr FFFg and a .457 Round Ball.
The second group in the middle are metalic cartridges .45LC W-W cases & primers, 30gr of FFFg, and a 255gr FP soft lead bullet. Usin FFFg instead of FFg they are rather stout and have a healthy kick but very accurate. I really like this one action smooth balanced better than the Walker for me with the 7 1/2" Barrel.

Old Dragoon · December 10, 2005, 04:49 PM

Hey Smokin Gun,
I'm in the high Mojave Desert. Surrounded by the Angeles National Forest about 60 miles outside LA.

Smokin_Gun · December 10, 2005, 05:52 PM

Old Dragoon I'm in Palmdale where are you? And do you belong to the Desert Marksman Club? 60 miles from L.A. you must be in Acton... it's 70 miles for me...

mec · December 10, 2005, 07:17 PM

Shot a couple of dragoons today too. An old ASM dragoon with 45 grains/vol of American Pioneer - Average Velocity 750s. Uberti Dragoon 45 gr.vol pyrodex RS- high 1000s. On that latter load, I was using .457 balls. On one occasion, I clocked the same load except for a .454" ball and recorded 865.
Gun in left hand is a never-fired Colt Second Generation Dragoon.

un-manned camera tripod/timer.

My shooting was off-hand and satisfactory but not as impressive as those three shot groups on your target.

Old Dragoon · December 10, 2005, 08:11 PM

Smokin Gun,
Ya Got Me pegged. Small world HUH?
I am in Acton. I am not a member of Desert Marksmen yet. Intend to do so shortly. If you were at their last Cowboy Action Shoot a couple weeks back I came in almost at the end of the shoot. I had my first '58 Rem conversion with me.

RK, Steve, Kevin,
I just saw the end of the original Stagecoach. Slim Pickens was shooting either a '58 Conversion or a '75 cartridge model.

Smokin_Gun · December 10, 2005, 08:43 PM

Thanks on the groups Mec, had a lil practice shootin Holy Black...Colt makes a damn nice Dragoon too. The Ubertis are really good too, worked on a 2nd Dragoon ASM that had been shot with apparently too hot loads...pin that locks the arbor to the frame needed replacing could move it up and down a half inch...LoL! Fixed it and sold it..those ASM are real nice too...

Old Dragoon, I been a Mountain Man fur quite a spell know my way around the Big Dusty and the all Timber...wasn't hard to find you

)
So howdy neighbor...I belong to the Black Powder Club, Siloutte Shooting and the Rondevouz. Basically a Shootist by trade tracker when need be. I just like shootin Black Powder. We'll have ta hook up and knock dowm some Jacks & rattlesnakes for a stew or a turn on the skewer on the Desert Floor...I know where some alp alpha fields are....we can hunt the old way, less bows and arrows ok?

Old Dragoon · December 10, 2005, 09:20 PM

SG,
Yeah We need to hook up. Maybe I'll wander on over to the next Rendevous shoot at the DM. It's jist over the hill and down apiece from me. Last Rendevous I was too was the National Western Rendevous at Emigrant Peak MT. and the other one then next week in the bitterroots...1979. A million years ago in another lifetime. LOL

Don't know about rattler stew, but but it ain't bad fried. Tastes Like Chicken...LOL (actually tastes a lot like Alligator.) Email me if you like and we can hookup sometime. Jack stew has to be a bit like Rabbit Noodles...Used to raise them little fuzzy's. Ate the culls.

Smokin_Gun · December 11, 2005, 01:26 AM

If your not desperate to eat any old Jack, the best are the small young ones...better yet if any of run outta an Alf Alfa fields...Either way Jack's or snake's if ya bring um home or back to camp soak um in cold salt water over nite..butter um um on a skewer or on a grill with a few garlic cloves in the Jack .. and powder on the snake.
You be surprised in the differance in taste...

Next weeks recipe Coyote Stakes & Pinions(Pine Nuts) with wild onions, cooked with Bee's Honey as a BBQ Sauce.

Ultima-Ratio · December 11, 2005, 01:54 AM

I recall a few years back on a Walker search online an article mentioning an Improved Walker but I can't recall the mans name now. He reworked the rod where it didn't fall as readily and whacked the barrel to 5.5in.! If memory serves it was after the Civil War?
When we get done testing the Walker how about an article on the rich mans horse pistol the LeMat?

mec · December 11, 2005, 08:42 AM

I'm beginning to sound like a crass and commercial broken record but there's a whole chapter on it in here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...Go.x=6&Go.y=13

Peter M. Eick · December 12, 2005, 08:21 AM

Mec,

If you don't mind me asking, where are you located? That looks a lot like the hill country of Texas in the background. I live in Houston, and was just curious.

mec · December 12, 2005, 08:34 AM

Not quite so good as the hill country. this is a mesquite patch east of waco and west of ft parker. It's close to tradinghouse creek.

Steve499 · December 12, 2005, 09:00 AM

I ordered your book, mec. can't wait to get it! Don't spend all your 84 cent royalty money on riotous living.

Steve

mec · December 12, 2005, 09:07 AM

you're a GOOD man! I only hope the book never makes back what it cost me to produce and complicates my tax structure.

Old Dragoon · December 12, 2005, 09:15 AM

MEC,
You are a truly humble man. That Texas country looks good to me. Reminds me some of Oklahoma country near and around Tulsa.
I hope to get a copy of your book soon.

mec · December 12, 2005, 09:46 AM

Last spring, I drove up through atoka and over to Arkansas by way of Ft. Smith. I really liked the looks of Oklahoma.

Old Dragoon · December 12, 2005, 11:15 AM

Yeah it is pretty nice country. The whole country has nice places, you just can't see most of them from the road.
I used to be a job Shop Engineer on CAD. so I traveled all over this country except the northeast. Some contracts were short, others long. somer short ones ending up being 15 months duration. Since 1994 I have been in Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Louisana (twice, bookending Ill.) Iowa twice, Kansas, Mo., N.C. (travelled up and down the east coast a s far south as Florida, north to Richmond Virginia doing gunshows buying and selling pre-1898 firearms), and here in the Republic Of Ca. for the last 5 years. (6 in Feb.)
Met wonderful people in all my travels, and some not so wonderful ones too. Saw lots of good scenery, Once in a period of 2 weeks I bought apples in an orchard in Michigan, Sweetcorn from the field in Iowa and shrimp off the boat in Lousiana. Figured that this is a great place to live. I thank the vets every chance I get for helping to make it so.

Peter M. Eick · December 12, 2005, 03:40 PM

I just ordered your book also. Neat to know the author is on the "web".

You have convinced me to get my Walker. I will "cabela's" one probably this week for Christmas. I just want to see if I can find a nice one around town. Collector's here in houston only has an old ASM one today and it looked good but they only wanted about $200 for it. I suspect there are "issues".

mec · December 12, 2005, 03:45 PM

a good many actually. They went out of the business a few years ago as a result of caring more about the cash register ringing than any sort of quality control Bates has a good shooting ASM but he had to do a lot of stuff to it to get it working.

The Uberti's should have fewer and simpler issues if you can stand having the loading lever flop down. The walker is not what I would pick for the primary or only percussion revolver but it is NEAT.

December 3, 2005, 07:20 PM	#1
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	Walker Colt and Load Variations. I started out using ball over 60 grains of swiss 3f. This makes for a very full chamber. Also used the 200 grain Lee Conical over a couple of combinations and found it very energetic. this revolver stiffens up fairly quickly and needs frequent field cleaning for good function. Even in a high wind, the 4 pound 16" long revolver hangs steady on target As issued in 1847, they came with bullet moulds casting from one to six picket bullets. I coned my seating stem to fit these from the serious, steel pedersoli mould and got far better accuracy than I expected from bullet of this design: the 45 grain load has considerable compression -necessary to get the spire point bullet below the chamber mouth. All of the higher end loads seem to generate over 500 foot pounds of energy. Compares favorably to most of the non-magnum modern loads. For the most part, I taped the loading lever up. It will drop like this every time other wise. As shown, recoil is light and there is an amazing lazer-like jet of flame in all that smoke.

December 5, 2005, 09:45 PM	#2
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	I came across one in a pawn shop earlier this year, Pedersoli I think. (How do you tell??) When I got it home, I tacked up a 3" square Post-It note at the 25 yard line and let loose with 60 gr Pyrodex P and six round balls off a sandbag. When the smoke cleared, I was pleasantly surprised to find five holes in the paper and the sixth only a quarter inch off one edge. It's just as accurate with BP and American Pioneer too. Pictured with a S&W M629 __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

December 10, 2005, 10:39 AM	#5
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	Under the loading lever, mine says: CAL .44 BLACK POWDER ONLY-MADE IN ITALY On the right side of the frame is a small clustering of markings starting with a tiny shield with a circle above it, then the initials PN with a tiny wreath looking thing above it, then a square box with the initials BD inside. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

December 10, 2005, 03:19 PM	#7
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Dragoon Loads Have a Colt 3rd generation Dragoon with an R&D Drop-in conversiona Cylinder. The 25 yard target pictured shows in the upper right two 3 shot groups, those are with Paper Envelope Cartidges of 42gr FFFg and a .457 Round Ball. The second group in the middle are metalic cartridges .45LC W-W cases & primers, 30gr of FFFg, and a 255gr FP soft lead bullet. Usin FFFg instead of FFg they are rather stout and have a healthy kick but very accurate. I really like this one action smooth balanced better than the Walker for me with the 7 1/2" Barrel. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 10, 2005, 05:52 PM	#9
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Old Dragoon I'm in Palmdale where are you? And do you belong to the Desert Marksman Club? 60 miles from L.A. you must be in Acton... it's 70 miles for me... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 9, 2005, 05:45 PM	#3
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	Pedersoli sells a couple of closed tops made by a german company- replicas, more or less of the Remington 58-63 and the one(cant think of its name) that never saw the light until Bannermans bought up the entire stock 40 years later. Very likely Uberti or Armi San Marco made yours, They have little markings on the gun ( Uberti usually writes their entire name on the bottom of the barrel under the loadin lever) Pietta uses "FAP" and I'm not sure about ASM. Palmetto also makes a Walker copy but, good as your'es shot, its unlikely it comes from them.

December 9, 2005, 06:28 PM	#4
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Mec, Good info and good shooten! I have wanted a Walker for a long time just because of the power but I don't like the weight or size My Remington can get heavy enough after carrying it around all day in these mountains.

December 10, 2005, 10:50 AM	#6
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	I seem to have left some of the B series out of the appendix in Percussion Pistols and Revolvers (Aaaarrrrrgggg!) but a BD would put it between 1991 and 1994 -Probably in 1993. PN appears on Ubertis. Good.

December 10, 2005, 04:49 PM	#8
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Hey Smokin Gun, I'm in the high Mojave Desert. Surrounded by the Angeles National Forest about 60 miles outside LA.

December 10, 2005, 07:17 PM	#10
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	Shot a couple of dragoons today too. An old ASM dragoon with 45 grains/vol of American Pioneer - Average Velocity 750s. Uberti Dragoon 45 gr.vol pyrodex RS- high 1000s. On that latter load, I was using .457 balls. On one occasion, I clocked the same load except for a .454" ball and recorded 865. Gun in left hand is a never-fired Colt Second Generation Dragoon. un-manned camera tripod/timer. My shooting was off-hand and satisfactory but not as impressive as those three shot groups on your target. Last edited by mec; August 28, 2010 at 09:22 PM.

December 10, 2005, 08:11 PM	#11
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Smokin Gun, Ya Got Me pegged. Small world HUH? I am in Acton. I am not a member of Desert Marksmen yet. Intend to do so shortly. If you were at their last Cowboy Action Shoot a couple weeks back I came in almost at the end of the shoot. I had my first '58 Rem conversion with me. RK, Steve, Kevin, I just saw the end of the original Stagecoach. Slim Pickens was shooting either a '58 Conversion or a '75 cartridge model.

December 10, 2005, 08:43 PM	#12
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Thanks on the groups Mec, had a lil practice shootin Holy Black...Colt makes a damn nice Dragoon too. The Ubertis are really good too, worked on a 2nd Dragoon ASM that had been shot with apparently too hot loads...pin that locks the arbor to the frame needed replacing could move it up and down a half inch...LoL! Fixed it and sold it..those ASM are real nice too... Old Dragoon, I been a Mountain Man fur quite a spell know my way around the Big Dusty and the all Timber...wasn't hard to find you ) So howdy neighbor...I belong to the Black Powder Club, Siloutte Shooting and the Rondevouz. Basically a Shootist by trade tracker when need be. I just like shootin Black Powder. We'll have ta hook up and knock dowm some Jacks & rattlesnakes for a stew or a turn on the skewer on the Desert Floor...I know where some alp alpha fields are....we can hunt the old way, less bows and arrows ok? __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 10, 2005, 09:20 PM	#13
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	SG, Yeah We need to hook up. Maybe I'll wander on over to the next Rendevous shoot at the DM. It's jist over the hill and down apiece from me. Last Rendevous I was too was the National Western Rendevous at Emigrant Peak MT. and the other one then next week in the bitterroots...1979. A million years ago in another lifetime. LOL Don't know about rattler stew, but but it ain't bad fried. Tastes Like Chicken...LOL (actually tastes a lot like Alligator.) Email me if you like and we can hookup sometime. Jack stew has to be a bit like Rabbit Noodles...Used to raise them little fuzzy's. Ate the culls.

December 11, 2005, 01:26 AM	#14
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Gourmet Jack/Rattler If your not desperate to eat any old Jack, the best are the small young ones...better yet if any of run outta an Alf Alfa fields...Either way Jack's or snake's if ya bring um home or back to camp soak um in cold salt water over nite..butter um um on a skewer or on a grill with a few garlic cloves in the Jack .. and powder on the snake. You be surprised in the differance in taste... Next weeks recipe Coyote Stakes & Pinions(Pine Nuts) with wild onions, cooked with Bee's Honey as a BBQ Sauce. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 11, 2005, 01:54 AM	#15
Ultima-Ratio Junior member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 227	Walker Trivia? I recall a few years back on a Walker search online an article mentioning an Improved Walker but I can't recall the mans name now. He reworked the rod where it didn't fall as readily and whacked the barrel to 5.5in.! If memory serves it was after the Civil War? When we get done testing the Walker how about an article on the rich mans horse pistol the LeMat?

December 11, 2005, 08:42 AM	#16
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	I'm beginning to sound like a crass and commercial broken record but there's a whole chapter on it in here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...Go.x=6&Go.y=13 Last edited by mec; August 28, 2010 at 09:22 PM.

December 12, 2005, 08:21 AM	#17
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Mec, If you don't mind me asking, where are you located? That looks a lot like the hill country of Texas in the background. I live in Houston, and was just curious. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

December 12, 2005, 08:34 AM	#18
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	Not quite so good as the hill country. this is a mesquite patch east of waco and west of ft parker. It's close to tradinghouse creek.

December 12, 2005, 09:00 AM	#19
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	I ordered your book, mec. can't wait to get it! Don't spend all your 84 cent royalty money on riotous living. Steve

December 12, 2005, 09:07 AM	#20
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	you're a GOOD man! I only hope the book never makes back what it cost me to produce and complicates my tax structure.

December 12, 2005, 09:15 AM	#21
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	MEC, You are a truly humble man. That Texas country looks good to me. Reminds me some of Oklahoma country near and around Tulsa. I hope to get a copy of your book soon.

December 12, 2005, 09:46 AM	#22
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	Last spring, I drove up through atoka and over to Arkansas by way of Ft. Smith. I really liked the looks of Oklahoma.

December 12, 2005, 11:15 AM	#23
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Yeah it is pretty nice country. The whole country has nice places, you just can't see most of them from the road. I used to be a job Shop Engineer on CAD. so I traveled all over this country except the northeast. Some contracts were short, others long. somer short ones ending up being 15 months duration. Since 1994 I have been in Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Louisana (twice, bookending Ill.) Iowa twice, Kansas, Mo., N.C. (travelled up and down the east coast a s far south as Florida, north to Richmond Virginia doing gunshows buying and selling pre-1898 firearms), and here in the Republic Of Ca. for the last 5 years. (6 in Feb.) Met wonderful people in all my travels, and some not so wonderful ones too. Saw lots of good scenery, Once in a period of 2 weeks I bought apples in an orchard in Michigan, Sweetcorn from the field in Iowa and shrimp off the boat in Lousiana. Figured that this is a great place to live. I thank the vets every chance I get for helping to make it so.

December 12, 2005, 03:40 PM	#24
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	I just ordered your book also. Neat to know the author is on the "web". You have convinced me to get my Walker. I will "cabela's" one probably this week for Christmas. I just want to see if I can find a nice one around town. Collector's here in houston only has an old ASM one today and it looked good but they only wanted about $200 for it. I suspect there are "issues". __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

December 12, 2005, 03:45 PM	#25
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	a good many actually. They went out of the business a few years ago as a result of caring more about the cash register ringing than any sort of quality control Bates has a good shooting ASM but he had to do a lot of stuff to it to get it working. The Uberti's should have fewer and simpler issues if you can stand having the loading lever flop down. The walker is not what I would pick for the primary or only percussion revolver but it is NEAT.

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