Need Shotshell Reloading Info

kjshank1 · May 14, 2008, 01:49 PM

I'm thinking about reloading shotshells in the near future. I have accumulated a variety of hulls already. I have a few questions though and I'm not having much luck answering them on my own.

I have approx. 250 Remington hulls that say 3 1/4 - 1 - 8 on them. They are black plastic low "brass" (steel). (Freebie from a friend)

From what I've read, most hulls are reloadable, but I'm not sure if the data I have covers the shells I have. From now on i will make sure the shells i buy are covered in my load data, but in the mean time, does anyone have/know where to get load data for those shells?

Question 2 Approx. how much does it cost to reload shotshells?

Thanks in advance for your help

Wyldman · May 14, 2008, 01:52 PM

Try to aviod the plastic hulls unless you know a way to "seal" them. They tend to come un-crimped and the shot falls out of them. Paper always worked best for my father and brother when they used to reload shot-shells.

BigJimP · May 14, 2008, 02:41 PM

The hulls you have are probably "Remington Gun Club" loads that will often retail for about $6 a box new. http://www.remington.com/products/am...t/gun_club.asp

The 3 1/4 mark is a little confusing to me ( it is probably Dram Equivalent - but I have not seen a 3 1/2 Dram shell ). The 1 refers to a 1oz load / the 8 refers to the pellet size that was originally in the shell. Measure the overall length of the hulls and make sure they are 2 3/4" shells .

Assuming you have Remington Gun Club hulls - you can use the same recipe's as the Remington STS hulls. The Gun Club hulls will last 4 or 5 reloads / they are significantly weaker than the STS hulls which will last easily 25 reloads. As far as load recipes - I suggest the Hodgdon website info - and for 12ga - I'd recommend either Winchester or Remington 209 primers / a variety of wads will work but you need to select your load of 1 1/8 or 1 oz and pick you wad accordingly I would probably suggest the WAA12SL for a 1oz load or the REM TGT 12 / and I would use Hodgdon Clays powder / and I would probably recommend a load of 1oz of 8's as a good starting / all around load. It doesn't sound like you have a press - but I would suggest you look over the MEC equipment. The Grabber, the 9000GN or the 9000 HN are all good machines depending on how much you want to get into this.

With shot at around $ 40 a bag / the current costs for reloading are about $4.50 a box with the cost of shot driving the cost. But if you get a good press, follow good procedures - you are able to make a shell comparable to a new Remington STS that retails at about $8 a box.

If you're shooting less than 10 boxes a month - just buy some of the cheaper target shells - like Gun Club and get into reloading down the road. If you want to save hulls - buy cases of Rem STS - and keep those hulls for future use. Not to be too disagreeable - but most of us that reload shotshells have not loaded anything except plastic hulls for the last 30 years. The days or reloading paper hulls are really long gone. I've reloaded shotshells in 12, 20, 28 and .410 for well over 30 years - and I use all MEC 9000HN machines ( hydraulic ) - and Reminton STS or Remington Nitro plastic hulls are my primary hull in 12 and 20ga. This time of the year, I'm shooting about 500 shells a week in a variety of gagues. I really like reloading - and reloading shotshells is pretty easy once you get all set up and understand your press / how to make adjustments in crimp depth, etc. But the setups on a press are unique for each brand of hull - you can't run the same setup on a WIN AA hull as you can on a Rem STS hull - you will have to readjust your machine. You also can't mix components or recipes. Shotshell 209 primers are unique - and cannot be mixed indiscriminantly - like most of us do on small pistol primers as an example. Wads are also unique - personally I prefer Winchester, Reminton or Duster Wads ( and 90% of the time, I am using Duster Wads these days ).

tom234 · May 14, 2008, 05:22 PM

Do the hulls have a 6 or 8 point crimp ? Plastic one piece hill or fiber/paper basewad ? Generally 8 point & all plastic hulls are reloadable. I find Winchester AA the best. BTW, I haven't see a paper shotshell in eons.
Load date here:
http://alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Index.htm

Cost calculation here:
http://10xshooters.com/calculators/S...ReloadingCost/

crowbeaner · May 14, 2008, 07:29 PM

Get the latest Lyman shotshell manual and a MEC machine. Most hulls can be reloaded, but some last longer than others. I prefer the older RP Premier hulls for my heavy trap loads but they are getting hard to find lately. I just bought some Gun Club hulls because they were $0.03 apiece shipped. They might not last as long as the flashy ones, but I don't shoot any where near as much as I used to. FOLLOW THE BOOK! Don't substitute components willy nilly; there are hand grenade pressures involved and shotguns are NOT as forgiving as other firearms. Just a change in primers can produce a 3500 psi change with no indication of a problem until the barrel splits. I try to use the mildest primer I can with the listed loads; the powder behaves that way. I don't worry about using a grain more with mild primers if I know the ballistic uniformity is high and the load patterns well.

Ifishsum · May 14, 2008, 09:28 PM

You will very likely be frustrated with trying to reload the black low base Remington hulls. They are very thin and collapse easily, and they do not want to stay crimped. That said, I believe I've read that all Remington hulls are constructed pretty much the same inside and can use the same data. You might look for some verification on that.

The green Remington Gun Club hulls are okay and will reload a few times. IMO, the best are the smooth plastic ones like the Remington Premier STS and Winchester AAs. They reload well, crimp well and last for many loadings.

Cost wise, I think a couple of years ago I figured about 3.50-4.00 a box. That was before the price of a 25lb bag of shot went up, I haven't priced shotshells lately but you don't save a lot of money unless you shoot a lot of shells. I enjoy loading though, so I don't really care - plus I know mine are good quality.

TEDDY · May 15, 2008, 12:41 PM

A point I noticed in new shells was it looks like they heated/melted a spot in center of shell.any one notice,its small about 1/16 inch

BigJimP · May 15, 2008, 03:39 PM

that spot you're talking about on the newer shells are typically just on the cheaper target shells - not on shells like Remington STS. But shells that have that "center dot" - like some of the cheaper Winchester hulls are difficult to get crimped properly.

The better hulls that you want to reload - like Remington STS or Remington Nitro crimp just fine when your machine is adjusted properly.

olddrum1 · May 15, 2008, 11:47 PM

There are a few of us that still reload Federal papers. A little more attention to detail in checking cases is needed. A number of people that shoot them think that they seal in the chamber better than plastic. Do not know if they do or not, just got a great deal on some once fired and still shooting a box every now and then for trap. A big difference on the cheap shells versus the STS and AA is that they have a steel base that does not compress. My reloaders will not load steel base shells. Had a go around with Federal about some of their Gold Medal that was supposed to be brass and turned out to be steel. Their suggestion was for me to get my dies on my reloader machined out to a larger size to accept the steel bases. If you buy a used reloader this may be an issue.

dogfood · May 18, 2008, 10:48 AM

OK, anyone know if the current Remington black "Gun Club" 6 pt. hulls are any different than they were a few years ago? I have about 500 that I collected back in 2005, and I have been reloading them without a hitch for awhile now.

The only thing I noticed was that they seem to be more sensitive to wad length. If you don't give them plenty of room to crimp, they will open up. But once I found the right combination of shot, wad and powder, they have been great.

All of which makes me wonder if Remington has changed them recently.

dogfood

crowbeaner · May 18, 2008, 01:42 PM

I think the black Gun Club hulls are the same as the green ones, but I could be wrong. The IMR data booklet shows the same load data for the STS, Nitro 27, and Gun Club hulls. It doesn't specify what color the Gun Clubs are though. Older data for the SP hulls specifies green or black, so I figure they are the same. Best bet is to contact Remington or IMR and ask. They took a few days to respond, but answered my questions.

6thMichCav · May 26, 2008, 03:27 PM

I am VERY new to shotshell reloading. However, I am an experienced rifle/pistol reloader, so the crimp coming loose on a shotshell confused me for the first 1-5 boxes.

With the proper components, equipment, and procedure, a shotshell should crimp properly and not come uncrimped.

Here's what I did WRONG:

--Tried to load hulls different than the manual. Mixing my hulls found me with excess space in the shell, causing either "cave-in" loads or "too-full" loads, both of which look disastrous (and leak shot like Elmer Fudd).

--Didn't pay attention to wad pressure or crimping pressure. My press, an entry-level Lee Load-All, has no way to measure pressure on the wad or the crimp. Some wads are compressed, and very "springy". They can literally make your shell open up if you do not use consistent and proper pressure. From what I understand, some presses have wad pressure indicators, which would be ideal. Crimping pressure is also sensitive. If you press too hard, you can cave in your shell. If you don't press hard enough, your crimp will literally unfold before your eyes. Watch where a "good" crimp stops, and try to crimp all of them that way. It is easier to put a shell back in the press and re-crimp than it is to deal with a caved-in shell.

--Didn't use the amount of powder listed in the manual. Trying to make "softer" loads left me with more hull space...and some of the accompanying problems above. When I went to the added powder (which was only a half-grain more), my loads started to become more uniform immediately.

May 14, 2008, 01:49 PM	#1
kjshank1 Member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Posts: 21	Need Shotshell Reloading Info I'm thinking about reloading shotshells in the near future. I have accumulated a variety of hulls already. I have a few questions though and I'm not having much luck answering them on my own. I have approx. 250 Remington hulls that say 3 1/4 - 1 - 8 on them. They are black plastic low "brass" (steel). (Freebie from a friend) From what I've read, most hulls are reloadable, but I'm not sure if the data I have covers the shells I have. From now on i will make sure the shells i buy are covered in my load data, but in the mean time, does anyone have/know where to get load data for those shells? Question 2 Approx. how much does it cost to reload shotshells? Thanks in advance for your help

May 14, 2008, 07:29 PM	#5
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	Get the latest Lyman shotshell manual and a MEC machine. Most hulls can be reloaded, but some last longer than others. I prefer the older RP Premier hulls for my heavy trap loads but they are getting hard to find lately. I just bought some Gun Club hulls because they were $0.03 apiece shipped. They might not last as long as the flashy ones, but I don't shoot any where near as much as I used to. FOLLOW THE BOOK! Don't substitute components willy nilly; there are hand grenade pressures involved and shotguns are NOT as forgiving as other firearms. Just a change in primers can produce a 3500 psi change with no indication of a problem until the barrel splits. I try to use the mildest primer I can with the listed loads; the powder behaves that way. I don't worry about using a grain more with mild primers if I know the ballistic uniformity is high and the load patterns well. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

May 15, 2008, 12:41 PM	#7
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	shot shells A point I noticed in new shells was it looks like they heated/melted a spot in center of shell.any one notice,its small about 1/16 inch

May 15, 2008, 11:47 PM	#9
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	Paper Shells There are a few of us that still reload Federal papers. A little more attention to detail in checking cases is needed. A number of people that shoot them think that they seal in the chamber better than plastic. Do not know if they do or not, just got a great deal on some once fired and still shooting a box every now and then for trap. A big difference on the cheap shells versus the STS and AA is that they have a steel base that does not compress. My reloaders will not load steel base shells. Had a go around with Federal about some of their Gold Medal that was supposed to be brass and turned out to be steel. Their suggestion was for me to get my dies on my reloader machined out to a larger size to accept the steel bases. If you buy a used reloader this may be an issue.

May 18, 2008, 01:42 PM	#11
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	I think the black Gun Club hulls are the same as the green ones, but I could be wrong. The IMR data booklet shows the same load data for the STS, Nitro 27, and Gun Club hulls. It doesn't specify what color the Gun Clubs are though. Older data for the SP hulls specifies green or black, so I figure they are the same. Best bet is to contact Remington or IMR and ask. They took a few days to respond, but answered my questions. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

May 14, 2008, 01:52 PM	#2
Wyldman Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2008 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 113	Try to aviod the plastic hulls unless you know a way to "seal" them. They tend to come un-crimped and the shot falls out of them. Paper always worked best for my father and brother when they used to reload shot-shells.

May 14, 2008, 02:41 PM	#3
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	The hulls you have are probably "Remington Gun Club" loads that will often retail for about $6 a box new. http://www.remington.com/products/am...t/gun_club.asp The 3 1/4 mark is a little confusing to me ( it is probably Dram Equivalent - but I have not seen a 3 1/2 Dram shell ). The 1 refers to a 1oz load / the 8 refers to the pellet size that was originally in the shell. Measure the overall length of the hulls and make sure they are 2 3/4" shells . Assuming you have Remington Gun Club hulls - you can use the same recipe's as the Remington STS hulls. The Gun Club hulls will last 4 or 5 reloads / they are significantly weaker than the STS hulls which will last easily 25 reloads. As far as load recipes - I suggest the Hodgdon website info - and for 12ga - I'd recommend either Winchester or Remington 209 primers / a variety of wads will work but you need to select your load of 1 1/8 or 1 oz and pick you wad accordingly I would probably suggest the WAA12SL for a 1oz load or the REM TGT 12 / and I would use Hodgdon Clays powder / and I would probably recommend a load of 1oz of 8's as a good starting / all around load. It doesn't sound like you have a press - but I would suggest you look over the MEC equipment. The Grabber, the 9000GN or the 9000 HN are all good machines depending on how much you want to get into this. With shot at around $ 40 a bag / the current costs for reloading are about $4.50 a box with the cost of shot driving the cost. But if you get a good press, follow good procedures - you are able to make a shell comparable to a new Remington STS that retails at about $8 a box. If you're shooting less than 10 boxes a month - just buy some of the cheaper target shells - like Gun Club and get into reloading down the road. If you want to save hulls - buy cases of Rem STS - and keep those hulls for future use. Not to be too disagreeable - but most of us that reload shotshells have not loaded anything except plastic hulls for the last 30 years. The days or reloading paper hulls are really long gone. I've reloaded shotshells in 12, 20, 28 and .410 for well over 30 years - and I use all MEC 9000HN machines ( hydraulic ) - and Reminton STS or Remington Nitro plastic hulls are my primary hull in 12 and 20ga. This time of the year, I'm shooting about 500 shells a week in a variety of gagues. I really like reloading - and reloading shotshells is pretty easy once you get all set up and understand your press / how to make adjustments in crimp depth, etc. But the setups on a press are unique for each brand of hull - you can't run the same setup on a WIN AA hull as you can on a Rem STS hull - you will have to readjust your machine. You also can't mix components or recipes. Shotshell 209 primers are unique - and cannot be mixed indiscriminantly - like most of us do on small pistol primers as an example. Wads are also unique - personally I prefer Winchester, Reminton or Duster Wads ( and 90% of the time, I am using Duster Wads these days ).

May 14, 2008, 05:22 PM	#4
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	Do the hulls have a 6 or 8 point crimp ? Plastic one piece hill or fiber/paper basewad ? Generally 8 point & all plastic hulls are reloadable. I find Winchester AA the best. BTW, I haven't see a paper shotshell in eons. Load date here: http://alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Index.htm Cost calculation here: http://10xshooters.com/calculators/S...ReloadingCost/

May 14, 2008, 09:28 PM	#6
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	You will very likely be frustrated with trying to reload the black low base Remington hulls. They are very thin and collapse easily, and they do not want to stay crimped. That said, I believe I've read that all Remington hulls are constructed pretty much the same inside and can use the same data. You might look for some verification on that. The green Remington Gun Club hulls are okay and will reload a few times. IMO, the best are the smooth plastic ones like the Remington Premier STS and Winchester AAs. They reload well, crimp well and last for many loadings. Cost wise, I think a couple of years ago I figured about 3.50-4.00 a box. That was before the price of a 25lb bag of shot went up, I haven't priced shotshells lately but you don't save a lot of money unless you shoot a lot of shells. I enjoy loading though, so I don't really care - plus I know mine are good quality.

May 15, 2008, 03:39 PM	#8
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	that spot you're talking about on the newer shells are typically just on the cheaper target shells - not on shells like Remington STS. But shells that have that "center dot" - like some of the cheaper Winchester hulls are difficult to get crimped properly. The better hulls that you want to reload - like Remington STS or Remington Nitro crimp just fine when your machine is adjusted properly.

May 18, 2008, 10:48 AM	#10
dogfood Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Location: Southwestern OH Posts: 239	OK, anyone know if the current Remington black "Gun Club" 6 pt. hulls are any different than they were a few years ago? I have about 500 that I collected back in 2005, and I have been reloading them without a hitch for awhile now. The only thing I noticed was that they seem to be more sensitive to wad length. If you don't give them plenty of room to crimp, they will open up. But once I found the right combination of shot, wad and powder, they have been great. All of which makes me wonder if Remington has changed them recently. dogfood

May 26, 2008, 03:27 PM	#12
6thMichCav Member Join Date: May 26, 2008 Posts: 52	Shells losing their crimp I am VERY new to shotshell reloading. However, I am an experienced rifle/pistol reloader, so the crimp coming loose on a shotshell confused me for the first 1-5 boxes. With the proper components, equipment, and procedure, a shotshell should crimp properly and not come uncrimped. Here's what I did WRONG: --Tried to load hulls different than the manual. Mixing my hulls found me with excess space in the shell, causing either "cave-in" loads or "too-full" loads, both of which look disastrous (and leak shot like Elmer Fudd). --Didn't pay attention to wad pressure or crimping pressure. My press, an entry-level Lee Load-All, has no way to measure pressure on the wad or the crimp. Some wads are compressed, and very "springy". They can literally make your shell open up if you do not use consistent and proper pressure. From what I understand, some presses have wad pressure indicators, which would be ideal. Crimping pressure is also sensitive. If you press too hard, you can cave in your shell. If you don't press hard enough, your crimp will literally unfold before your eyes. Watch where a "good" crimp stops, and try to crimp all of them that way. It is easier to put a shell back in the press and re-crimp than it is to deal with a caved-in shell. --Didn't use the amount of powder listed in the manual. Trying to make "softer" loads left me with more hull space...and some of the accompanying problems above. When I went to the added powder (which was only a half-grain more), my loads started to become more uniform immediately.