M16 Parts + AR15 Receiver?

w4klr · February 13, 2005, 09:00 PM

I know I know, this topic is probably taboo. I'm researching things between the AR15 and M16 for a class project. I've read about the DIAS and lightning link, but in theory, couldn't you just buy a stripped AR15 receiver, install m16 internals and bolt carrier and have an M16, even though it is uber illegal(not worth my 10yrs/250k)? When I say internals, I mean EVERYTHING, springs, trigger, selector, disconnecter... Input is much appreciated.

Hkmp5sd · February 13, 2005, 09:05 PM

You would need to make some modifications to the receiver to allow it to accept the full auto parts.

HERE is a good comparison of the differences between the AR and M16.

PMDW · February 13, 2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

You would need to make some modifications to the receiver to allow it to accept the full auto parts.

Unless you had a DIAS.

Hkmp5sd · February 13, 2005, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Unless you had a DIAS.

..

Quote:

but in theory, couldn't you just buy a stripped AR15 receiver, install m16 internals and bolt carrier and have an M16, even though it is uber illegal(not worth my 10yrs/250k)? When I say internals, I mean EVERYTHING, springs, trigger, selector, disconnecter...

PMDW · February 13, 2005, 10:13 PM

That is true, to convert it to a factory spec M16 it would take some machining. But it will take full auto parts with no work to the receiver, assuming you have a DIAS, which I will point out, IS a "full auto part".

w4klr · February 14, 2005, 01:53 PM

So are modern non-Colt/Armalite AR-15s unblocked, and could use the DIAS?

Hkmp5sd · February 14, 2005, 06:08 PM

The DIAS along with a M16 bolt carrier, hammer, selector, and disconnector will convert an AR-15 to full auto without any modifications to the receiver.

To install all of the actual M16 full auto parts into an AR-15 receiver (ie converting the AR into an actual M16), the receiver would need to be modified for them to fit.

PMDW · February 14, 2005, 06:18 PM

I never said it wouldn't.

Hkmp5sd · February 14, 2005, 07:10 PM

PMDW,

That was in response to his question about newer receivers being able to accept a DIAS, not your previous comment.

w4klr · February 14, 2005, 10:34 PM

And with the m16 parts + dias, does that allow selective and full auto capability, or full auto only.

Casp_A · February 14, 2005, 11:18 PM

Looks like it should duplicate the fuctionality of an original M-16 group, both semi- and full-auto. Unless you disclude the disconnector, though that would be kinda stupid.

Now I have a question: anyone have a link to something showing how a 3-round-burst mechanism is set up/works? I have a general idea, but I'm curious as to how they do it in something like an M-16/M-4.

Hkmp5sd · February 15, 2005, 11:59 AM

The M4 uses one of the worst methods of achieving 3-round bursts in existence. It uses a ratchet that ends up giving different trigger pulls for each position. The HK version is far superior.

Diagram is in tm9-1005-319-23.pdf starting on page 3-88.

abelew · February 18, 2005, 07:57 PM

Yes bad trigger, but if your using 3 round burst, do you really need long range accuracy?

fal308 · February 19, 2005, 06:38 AM

Abelew,
The three round burst in the 16 is bad not b/c of the accuracy but b/c it is not resetable. That is if you only fire one round of the burst, the next trigger pull will only fire two rounds then reset. Or if you fire two rounds of the burst, then the next trigger pull will only fire the single remaining round of the burst then reset. The HK version will fire the full burst every time.

jclark1892 · September 16, 2010, 06:53 PM

Is it possible to mate an AR15 lower with an M16 parts kit?

Skans · September 17, 2010, 07:51 AM

Jclark - it is illegal to do so - will make the gun a machinegun, even if you don't add all of the M16 parts - even if it doesn't fire full-auto. The only M16 part you can safely use in an AR15 is the bolt carrier. At least one M16 part can't be added without machining - perhaps more, depending on what AR15 receiver is used.

Not sure why this thread from 2005 was resurrected?

demigod · September 17, 2010, 08:34 AM

There is an actual case of this where the guy got prison time. There was a goofball in Wisconsin who put one of those A2 burst lower parts kits in a piece of sh1t Olyimpic Arms rifle.

This guy was a self appointed "Mr. Helper". He loaned this gun out to someone and told the kid not to flip the selector to the auto position. Naturally the guy flipped it to auto and ended up getting some full auto fire. He did this at the range, and it ended up getting reported to authorities who investigated.

In the end, ATF nailed the guy because the gun would fire MORE than ONE round per pull of the trigger. It didn't matter what parts he had. It boiled down to the ATF getting it to fire full auto.... and it infact did.

The guy took his claim that it was a malfuction and paraded it all over AR15.com, but when you have an A2 fire control group installed, that story isn't really holding water.

Hkmp5sd · September 17, 2010, 05:58 PM

Zombie thread resurrection and duplicate of current thread by same person at http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423395

threecharley · September 21, 2010, 09:28 PM

Not trying to be a smart azz but atf told me that as long as it doesn't have any hole and isn't converted to select fire you CAN have m16 parts in a semi gun. like a m16 full auto bcg and so on! i heard this from Al Lamburger ATF inspector.

Ridge_Runner_5 · September 21, 2010, 10:41 PM

Bolt carrier group is fine. But trigger components is walking a fine line, and if the ATF takes you to court, they could argue you were attempting to manufacture an illegal machine gun....

threecharley · September 21, 2010, 11:29 PM

very true and i really don't think its worth the risk. jmho

demigod · September 22, 2010, 08:56 AM

Quote:

And with the m16 parts + dias, does that allow selective and full auto capability, or full auto only.

It looks like your question got overlooked.

With a DIAS, you still have semi and full auto selectability. It doesn't work exactly like a true M16 because the selector doesn't disengage the auto sear in a DIAS like it does on an M16. But the disconnector works like normal, and thus you get semi auto function too.

Skans · September 22, 2010, 05:53 PM

I believe that if you install the FA trigger group in an AR and the FA selector switch, it can potentially slam-fire and doubble. That's a no-no.

demigod · September 23, 2010, 09:00 AM

It will fire in full auto with the selector in the third position... not reliably, but it will work. The problem is there's no sear to regulate the hammer so you end up with the hammer down on a live round.

This is what happened to the Wisconsin idiot. He had everything but the sear installed. It worked just enough to get him popped for an illegal transfer of a machine gun.

David Hineline · September 24, 2010, 06:14 AM

Some semi auto receivers are blocked so the DIAS or Link conversion will not fit.

February 13, 2005, 09:00 PM	#1
w4klr Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Fl Posts: 280	M16 Parts + AR15 Receiver? I know I know, this topic is probably taboo. I'm researching things between the AR15 and M16 for a class project. I've read about the DIAS and lightning link, but in theory, couldn't you just buy a stripped AR15 receiver, install m16 internals and bolt carrier and have an M16, even though it is uber illegal(not worth my 10yrs/250k)? When I say internals, I mean EVERYTHING, springs, trigger, selector, disconnecter... Input is much appreciated.

February 13, 2005, 09:05 PM	#2
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	You would need to make some modifications to the receiver to allow it to accept the full auto parts. HERE is a good comparison of the differences between the AR and M16. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

February 14, 2005, 01:53 PM	#6
w4klr Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Fl Posts: 280	Now for the DIAS... So are modern non-Colt/Armalite AR-15s unblocked, and could use the DIAS?

February 14, 2005, 06:08 PM	#7
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	The DIAS along with a M16 bolt carrier, hammer, selector, and disconnector will convert an AR-15 to full auto without any modifications to the receiver. To install all of the actual M16 full auto parts into an AR-15 receiver (ie converting the AR into an actual M16), the receiver would need to be modified for them to fit. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

February 14, 2005, 07:10 PM	#9
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	PMDW, That was in response to his question about newer receivers being able to accept a DIAS, not your previous comment. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

February 13, 2005, 10:13 PM	#5
PMDW Member Join Date: September 14, 2004 Posts: 39	That is true, to convert it to a factory spec M16 it would take some machining. But it will take full auto parts with no work to the receiver, assuming you have a DIAS, which I will point out, IS a "full auto part".

February 14, 2005, 06:18 PM	#8
PMDW Member Join Date: September 14, 2004 Posts: 39	I never said it wouldn't.

February 14, 2005, 10:34 PM	#10
w4klr Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Fl Posts: 280	Last question.. And with the m16 parts + dias, does that allow selective and full auto capability, or full auto only.

February 14, 2005, 11:18 PM	#11
Casp_A Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2004 Posts: 495	Looks like it should duplicate the fuctionality of an original M-16 group, both semi- and full-auto. Unless you disclude the disconnector, though that would be kinda stupid. Now I have a question: anyone have a link to something showing how a 3-round-burst mechanism is set up/works? I have a general idea, but I'm curious as to how they do it in something like an M-16/M-4. __________________ Johnny was a chemist's son, but Johnny is no more. What Johnny thought was H2O was H2SO4.

February 15, 2005, 11:59 AM	#12
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	The M4 uses one of the worst methods of achieving 3-round bursts in existence. It uses a ratchet that ends up giving different trigger pulls for each position. The HK version is far superior. Diagram is in tm9-1005-319-23.pdf starting on page 3-88. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

February 18, 2005, 07:57 PM	#13
abelew Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 778	Yes bad trigger, but if your using 3 round burst, do you really need long range accuracy? __________________ "Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." ~ Mohatma Gandhi

February 19, 2005, 06:38 AM	#14
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Abelew, The three round burst in the 16 is bad not b/c of the accuracy but b/c it is not resetable. That is if you only fire one round of the burst, the next trigger pull will only fire two rounds then reset. Or if you fire two rounds of the burst, then the next trigger pull will only fire the single remaining round of the burst then reset. The HK version will fire the full burst every time.

September 16, 2010, 06:53 PM	#15
jclark1892 Junior Member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Posts: 2	Is it possible to mate an AR15 lower with an M16 parts kit?

September 17, 2010, 07:51 AM	#16
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Jclark - it is illegal to do so - will make the gun a machinegun, even if you don't add all of the M16 parts - even if it doesn't fire full-auto. The only M16 part you can safely use in an AR15 is the bolt carrier. At least one M16 part can't be added without machining - perhaps more, depending on what AR15 receiver is used. Not sure why this thread from 2005 was resurrected?

September 17, 2010, 08:34 AM	#17
demigod Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 1,129	There is an actual case of this where the guy got prison time. There was a goofball in Wisconsin who put one of those A2 burst lower parts kits in a piece of sh1t Olyimpic Arms rifle. This guy was a self appointed "Mr. Helper". He loaned this gun out to someone and told the kid not to flip the selector to the auto position. Naturally the guy flipped it to auto and ended up getting some full auto fire. He did this at the range, and it ended up getting reported to authorities who investigated. In the end, ATF nailed the guy because the gun would fire MORE than ONE round per pull of the trigger. It didn't matter what parts he had. It boiled down to the ATF getting it to fire full auto.... and it infact did. The guy took his claim that it was a malfuction and paraded it all over AR15.com, but when you have an A2 fire control group installed, that story isn't really holding water.

September 17, 2010, 05:58 PM	#18
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Zombie thread resurrection and duplicate of current thread by same person at http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423395 __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

September 21, 2010, 09:28 PM	#19
threecharley Junior member Join Date: September 21, 2010 Location: Tulsa,OK Posts: 70	Not trying to be a smart azz but atf told me that as long as it doesn't have any hole and isn't converted to select fire you CAN have m16 parts in a semi gun. like a m16 full auto bcg and so on! i heard this from Al Lamburger ATF inspector.

September 21, 2010, 10:41 PM	#20
Ridge_Runner_5 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,925	Bolt carrier group is fine. But trigger components is walking a fine line, and if the ATF takes you to court, they could argue you were attempting to manufacture an illegal machine gun....

September 21, 2010, 11:29 PM	#21
threecharley Junior member Join Date: September 21, 2010 Location: Tulsa,OK Posts: 70	very true and i really don't think its worth the risk. jmho

September 22, 2010, 05:53 PM	#23
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I believe that if you install the FA trigger group in an AR and the FA selector switch, it can potentially slam-fire and doubble. That's a no-no.

September 23, 2010, 09:00 AM	#24
demigod Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 1,129	It will fire in full auto with the selector in the third position... not reliably, but it will work. The problem is there's no sear to regulate the hammer so you end up with the hammer down on a live round. This is what happened to the Wisconsin idiot. He had everything but the sear installed. It worked just enough to get him popped for an illegal transfer of a machine gun.

September 24, 2010, 06:14 AM	#25
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Some semi auto receivers are blocked so the DIAS or Link conversion will not fit.