Forehand top break revolver question

[TomADC]

I have one of these I want to sell its date January 11 1887 so that makes it a antique and no paperwork required to ship or transfer right?
Its the top revolver in the picture.

[RJay]

I believe you are looking at the patent date, which has nothing to do with the manufacturing date. Forehand and Wadsworth built fire arms from 1871 until 1901. To legally be a antique fire arm, it must have been built before midnight , 31 December 1898. I believe your gun is a Perfected Automatic, made fromj 1898 until 1901/02.

[TomADC]

Yes pat date it has a serial number of A 4896 but can't find much on that.

[RJay]

I don't think there is any serial number data on the Forehands.

[Doc Hoy]

I spent a little time looking into specific production histories for the type of revolver you are showing. I have not been any more successful than you. Iver Johnson, Forehand, Allen, Wheelock, Hopkins.. whatever.

The actual markings on the revolver other than serial numbers seem to be more useful in dating these revolvers because if you ignore Iver Johnson which appears to have been quite stabile the other manufacturers changed often and a person might be able to reconstruct (with some effort and a little uncertainty) a timeline of the manufacturer's markings as the years went by.

Maybe James K. will wade in here. He seems to be very knowledgeable about these "bicycle, Suicide, Saturday night special" revolvers.

I personal love them. They are cheap to acquire. Fun to work on. There is a good range of designs. Just a very interesting period of U.S. Firearm history.

[James K]

Those guns are in a legal limbo, since they were made over years and might or might not be antiques, so most owners and dealers will err on the side of caution and treat them as modern firearms.

Note that the antique designation as described by RJay, is that in Federal law. Most states and localities consider percussion or muzzle loading firearms as antiques but some make no exception for cartridge handguns regardless of age, and none make an exception for antiques in regard to carry, use in crime, etc.

I know that is not much help, and I wish I had the manufacturing dates of all those old makers, but no one does.

Jim

[TomADC]

Thanks all, from the research I've been doing probably best just to hang onto it..
As a side note the bottom one is a US Revolver in 32 and it appears to either been shot very little or never. The Forehand shows a lot of wear and tear but the little 32 not much, the finish is original!

[Doc Hoy]

was made at the Iver Johnson factory.

I have a "Forehand D.A." (The model name on the revolver actually includes the quotation marks) which I am pretty sure was made after Forehand and Wadsworth were no longer in business as Forehand and Wadsworth. It is a full frame in .38 and it is in great shape like your U.S. Revolver.

The last group of such revolvers I bought was at a gun show at which time I bought three revolvers at 50.00 each. One was a spur trigger with a missing side cover. (Easy to make but not easy to make exactly as the original)

[RJay]

Yes, the US revolver is an Iver Johnson product. The US Revolver started as a way to use parts left over from a model change ( like Colt, Iver Johnson never threw anything away ), however it became so popular it became a regular line. The time line of the US revolver was from 1909 to 1937. It was not a cheaper model, the price was with in pennies of the regular Iver Johnsons, but the US revolver was sold primarily through mail order. Thanks to Bill Goforth's book most Iver Johnsons and US revolvers can be dated.

[Gaucho Gringo]

I may be wrong but I thought US Revolver guns don't have IJ's "Hammer the hammer" transfer bar. I too like these little revolvers. Bought 3 of them in one weekend for less than $175.00 total. After being married for 30 years and showing no interest in shooting my wife decides she wanted to shoot "those cute little guns" when I bought the first one and showed her it. Just have to be careful, a lot of them are black powder loads only.

[James K]

Correct, the U.S. line doesn't have the transfer bar. The U.S. line originated as a way of using up the old parts when I.J. went to the "hammer the hammer" system.

Jim

[Doc Hoy]

I gotta read more books.

[Doc Hoy]

I agree with your strategy to just hang on to the revolver.

Inability to date as an antique and the potential transfer costs involved.
Relatively low value of these revolvers in the first place.
Finding someone who appreciates it as much as you do.

All factors combine to make a sale a little complicated.

Early versions of these revolvers had a frame release which was on the left hand side. I don't know the actual name of the release but I call it a "thumb release" essentially because that is the way it works. You can open the frame using the thumb of the hand which is holding the revolver. (I admit that some are too tight to do it this way but it generally works.)

Manufactures eventually moved to a release which was better operated by the thumb and forefinger of the hand which is not holding the revolver. The top revolver in the photo appears to have the second type of release.

This may be an indication of a manufactured-not-before year. If it is a thumb release, you might know the manufactured-not-later-than year.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I like to play with them myself, & I actually shoot most all of mine ( I've not actually shot my bottom break S&W in 32 Rim Fire... yet

the Iver is pretty... the Forehand is in pretty "normal" condition

perhaps if you really want to part with it, take it to a gun show, & sell it face to face...

a "couple" of mine

the 22's & 32's



the 38's & bigger

[RJay]

Oh oh, looks as if you have a empty spot there, you will have to fill that in.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

that "space" actually separates the top breaks from the solid frames... the 3rd gun from the bottom of the 2nd picture, has a couple interesting features... like the hinged / folding hammer spur, & a loading gate ( most of the pocket revolvers of this era did not have a loading "gate" only a space in the recoil shield in which to load through )

many of these guns have unusual features... the 3rd gun down on the right, in the top picture is a black powder, antique Iver Bicycle gun, that has a trigger safety similar to whats used in the glocks, & alot of the newer autos, a full 100 years before that was "supposedly" invented

several of my collection are Hopkins & Allen Safety Police models, I'm pretty fond of those... I haven't gotten a Safety Police in 22 caliber yet, so I still have a few oldies to find yet

[Doc Hoy]

I am up to about fifteen of these revolvers. Most are shootable.

I can't get enough of them.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I actually re-qualified for my my CCW, using an antique S&W single action spur trigger... I think the instructor was amazed that I did so well on the range, & actually shot better, & finished faster than some of the newbies with compact 9's

a couple more oldies here ( on the lower part of the rack )

BTW... the bottom gun on the right is the gun I used to re-qualify with

[TomADC]

My goodness what a great collection!,

[Magnum Wheel Man]

thank you... I really enjoy them, & take them out & put a few rounds through most of them on occasion... in fact, I'm reloading 800 rounds of 32 S&W this last couple weeks, in 3 load levels, ranging from a couple boxes with a pinch of Trailboss, & a soft lead round ball, for the oldest or most fragile of revolvers, to a box of some pretty stout cast bullet loads that almost never get shot, as I only use them, if I'm feeling nostalgic & happen to be carrying one of these oldies... the bulk are mild, general purpose loads...

the bottom break S&W in 32 Rim Fire has never been shot... yet... I do have some ammo, but I'm considering drilling out the bullets to lighten them, to make it easier on the gun... if / when, I do shoot it... all are in shootable condition, or I part with them, as IMO, they are guns, not gun shaped paperweights

[James K]

I suggest firing at least a few shots from the S&W tip-up. Not many cartridge guns of that era are actually shootable. It is surprising how accurate those guns are if the shooter can overcome the problem with the nearly invisible front sight.

Jim