dealing with folks who don't understand CC

[Yooper1]

I work at a university, and most of the folks I work with, though generally wonderful people, do not understand the concealed carry philosophy or guns in general. A while back, I had to go on a business trip to Detroit with 3 female colleagues. I brought my Ruger LCP, and I'm pretty sure any of the 3 would freak if they knew I had a loaded 38 in the outer pocket of my travel pack. It's really the same situation just about anywhere outside my home; most people I know would get seriously upset if they knew I had a loaded gun in my pocket. So the obvious way to handle this is to just not say anything, which is what most folks who carry do, I assume.

One evening on the Detroit trip we went to dinner in a sort of rough part of town. I had my gun in my coat pocket. As we were walking out, I was thinking that if someone tried to rob us or something and had a gun pointed at one of us, what would I do? If I pulled my gun, I'm sure the women would think I was putting them at risk. Should I just let everyone hand over their money, and only pull a gun if I somehow determined that this was a life threatening situation?

Bottom line, how do you balance your right to self protection with the influence that your actions might have on others who might take a more passive approach?

[kraigwy]

How would I deal with people who don't understand CC???

Simple, conceal is concealed, no reason they have to know I'm carrying.

If I need it, then I really don't care if they find out, I'll have other things to worry about.

[serf 'rett]

The situation would need to be life threatening before I would even consider handing over my money.

Self defense should be possible to be a practible option.

Recommend you get training to help you gear into the mindset and mental acuity needed to carry a concealed weapon.

[Stressfire]

Sometimes, it really depends on how well people know you.

For example, I have a group of friends that my wife and I usually go out with. They have no idea that I carry or am even into guns. I don't carry when we go out as I will usually have a couple drinks. We were going clubbing in Cleveland a couple weeks ago for a birthday and I decided to go armed and be DD for the night.

While we were waiting for everyone to gather to prepare to leave, one friend went into his closet and got a little Crossman air pistol - the joke was that since we were going to Cleveland, we would need it

Told them I already had that covered and "exposed" myself, or rather exposed the Beretta I had in a shoulder rig. Up until the time we departed, the men in the group and I had a very good conversation on the merits of being able to defend oneself with more than fists and foul language.

If people don't want to understand, they will not. If they are curious, I'm happy to answer questions.

[BLUETIP]

Imo anytime an idiot has a gun pointed at you is a life threatening situation! You're not a mind reader, however you can read body language, go with your gut. I wouldn't let anything other than good judgement dictate how to handle the situation.

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by kraigwy

. . . .Simple, conceal is concealed, no reason they have to know I'm carrying.

If I need it, then I really don't care if they find out, I'll have other things to worry about.

^^^This. Concealed is concealed. For the most part, those who know me well enough to know that I CC will presume that I'm CC-ing. Those who do not know me well enough will not be told. As kraigwy pointe out, if I have to draw, I have bigger fish to fry than to worry about their opinions.

The other side question is where I am going. In Arkansas, if I go to someone's home, I am required to notify them if I am CC-ing. If I know them well enough for them to know that I CC at all, I'll CC & notify. If I don't know them well enough, I either do not CC in their home, or I don't go there.

Originally Posted by Yooper1

. . . . Bottom line, how do you balance your right to self protection with the influence that your actions might have on others who might take a more passive approach?

I don't. To my mind, there's nothing to balance. My right (and, IMHO, my duty) to protect myself and my family is not open to debate. I'll will gladly discuss the issue with those who ask, explain my reasons and my choices to those interested enough to have the discussion. But we don't vote on whether or not I have that right and duty.

Edited to add: Welcome to The Firing Line, Yooper1!

[Fohengineerrandy]

I have my weapon to protect me and my family. If I believe they are in danger I use it. They know I have it. anyone else should 't matter.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This isn't really a T and T question but more of a general discussion. It's a worthy topic though. I work in a college environment and discussed the issue in one of my sig links below.

Hold tight for the move.

Glenn

[sgms]

They have no reason to be aware that you have a CCW permit or that you carry. Keep it that way, concealed is concealed. You carry a pistol to protect yourself, so if you think somebody is going to hurt you bad or kill you why in the world would the opinions of anybody you are with alter your right to defend yourself. Just because they may chose to become victims in no way requires you to maybe give up your life because they prefer the "Oh please don't hurt us" mindset. If you ever have to use your weapon in a justifiable manner than you saved not only your life but those of your colleagues as well, they may decide to hate you forever but they are at lest alive to do so. And more importantly, so are you.

[MTSCMike]

I quit worrying about what other people think a long time ago. I will do what I think best and let others decide how they feel about it on their own. I am not blatant or hostile about it. I always conceal. But if my life or the life of someone else is in jeopardy then I have to live with the decisions I make. It's not a committee decision.

[zincwarrior]

How would I deal with people who don't understand CC???

Simple, conceal is concealed, no reason they have to know I'm carrying.

If I need it, then I really don't care if they find out, I'll have other things to worry about.

There you go.

[ClydeFrog]

It sounds to me like you need to address a few issues re: concealed weapons/use of force.

MINDSET: You need to sit down & decide if you really want or need to carry a concealed weapon. If you have doubts or are concerned with your image or how/what others may think of you then what will happen if or when you have a REAL use of force event? As I stated here & in other gun forums, firearms are NOT props, toys or fashion statements. You need to understand your concealed firearm is a loaded LETHAL WEAPON. Be ready to use it properly if required and be fully ready to use lethal force. If you cant deal with it or have second thoughts, don't carry a concealed firearm.
CONCEALMENT: Use a proper holster and practice drawing from concealment. Some "armed professionals" and sworn LE officers tailor suits or buy clothing that fully conceals a sidearm or related gear. Use common sense & good judgement.
SKILLCRAFT: I'd learn to become a "quiet professional". I wouldnt discuss weapons, firearms, holsters, etc with anyone that may or could later become a issue in a real lethal force event.
How would you react if your "anti-gun" friend shouted "DON'T SHOOT!" or "DON'T DRAW YOUR GUN!" to in a street hold-up? You'd be in a major fix!
I'd use what many intel & LE professionals call; "skillcraft". Don't let your weapons or gear "print". Dont wear; "I have a gun!" or "I don't call 911!" clothing items. Be discreet but ready to deploy your firearm when needed.
I read a recent news item about how the DoJ & FBI are now interviewing George Zimmerman's "shooting buddies", co-workers, neighbors, etc. How would you fare in a after-action shooting investigation? Would your friends or co-workers support you?

Think about these points. It's important.

Clyde

[Tinner666]

If I needed it, I'd use it and explain later.

And on another note;
If I start to go into a place and see a No-CCW sign and turn away, the owner or manager might see me and ask why I'm leaving. I reply that I'm an honest citizen that went through a lot of time and money to prove it and get my CCW, and if you don't want me in there, I'm not arguing, I'm gone to spend elsewhere. Most times, they'll say "Come on in anyway."

[RamItOne]

Originally Posted by kraigwy

Simple, conceal is concealed, no reason they have to know I'm carrying.

I'd still like to know how the heck he keeps his M1A concealed

All my friends who I normally socialize with know I carry, but don't want others to know, that's why I don't get OC....

[Metal god]

Imo anytime an idiot has a gun pointed at you is a life threatening situation! You're not a mind reader, however you can read body language, go with your gut. I wouldn't let anything other than good judgement dictate how to handle the situation.

I like this answer . I think I get what the OP is asking .

Lets go with the quote above and say a guy grabs one of the ladys hand bags . He is moving away slowly with no weapon and is telling you all to stay back . Here in CA if you pull a gun or even chase after him you could get busted for the escalation of the situation . Here in CA the law looks at him moving away from you as no longer being a threat to you . Therefore any action from you may be considered an escalation of deadly force . I think at least one of the ladys would have said , the bad guy was leaving why did you cause him to stop , pull out his gun and shoot my friend . I'm sure the district attorney would at your trial .

I don't necessarily agree wth that . just putting a scenario out there I see easily happening .

[p loader]

1- You work at a University

2- You work with women

What did you expect?

[MLeake]

p loader, you do realize that Glenn E Meyer works at a university, right?

And that Pax and Gila Hayes are women, right?

It's kind of hard not to notice, what with Glenn having the PhD and discussing his students and study groups, and Pax having the name Kathy in her signature line...

I have musician friends, tree hugger friends, and even hippie-looking friends who carry.

And my wife can shoot. She doesn't carry, but she does not mind in the least that I do.

So what was your point?

[youngunz4life]

The situation would need to be life threatening before I would even consider handing over my money

many people die (some I am sure with last thoughts about how they wish they could go back and change their decision) because their first inclination is to not hand over the money....sometimes this (and sometimes not) adds to the fact that the victim doesn't realize how serious the situation before them is. Don't doubt the seriousness is if there is any inclination that it is andor can be. Trust the person that they mean business.

*on the otherhand, don't trust you will automatically be ok if you comply or are told "you'll be ok". but I stand by my post.*

**I do soemtimes have an issue with how easy it is for these clowns to rob banks though. I am assuming (and I can only hope I am right about this) they at least have a 'setup' via employee training where they just give crooks small amounts andor have a protocol because it is pretty ridiculous that an unarmed person can just walk up to a teller and rob a bank. I don't have too much of an issue with it and being safe (as explained in my post above), but it is upsetting at the ease at which it happens sometimes.**

[Falcon642]

I compared concealed carry to fire insurance. I do not expect to ever have to use either, but the consequences of not having either and needing it are so severe it more than justifies always having it.

[NRA_guy]

I married a lady whose family "never owned a gun and never needed one". In her mind, guns only were made for killing and she thought that she had rather die than kill someone.

I have found that liberals are philosophical like that---until they run into the real world personally.

I explained that a gun is like the jack and lug wrench in the car: there in case it is needed, but otherwise just along for the ride.

No amount of logic will sway their opinion.

They didn't want any guns in the house or car. They insisted that guns be locked up and unloaded, etc.

When the daughter's son got old enough, and he got a little interested in guns, they asked me to teach him gun safety for his own safety. I did.

When she and her daughter had a possible impending problem with an ex-husband coming over to start some trouble, they asked me to come over and bring my gun---a BIG gun.

Recently when we start on a trip, my wife asks me, "Are you packing?"

"Yeah", I say.

"Good", she says.

[Kreyzhorse]

Like Kraig said above, concealed is concealed and if I need my gun bad enough to pull it, my last concerning is going to be what they think about it.

[Baba Louie]

Yooper1, Welcome to TFL.

...how do you balance your right to self protection with the influence that your actions might have on others who might take a more passive approach?

As others have submitted, I don't worry about passive others being affected because until the item in question is needed, it is
a.) out of their sight,
b.) none of their business or concern.

i.e., Concealed means concealed and I have learned to keep my mouth shut about such things.

As to the practical heart of the matter, when in the situation you described you will revert to your training level without much thought or hesitation... so I have to ask (rhetorically) how much training do you have under your belt, as it were? What advice did/does your Trainer offer in terms of situational awareness when carrying around others?

Just more points to ponder. Old(er) book, sage advice... Mas Ayoobs In The Gravest Extreme. Worth a read. He suggests some throwdown money folded & stapled IIRC. an interesting concept.

[gaseousclay]

Imo anytime an idiot has a gun pointed at you is a life threatening situation! You're not a mind reader, however you can read body language, go with your gut. I wouldn't let anything other than good judgement dictate how to handle the situation.

does this include idiots with CC? i've always pondered this scenario and wondered what one is supposed to do. let's say you're walking down the street and you bump into some guy passing you who happens to be carrying. some words are exchanged and it looks like it's going to come to blows. does getting into a fist fight preclude you from brandishing your firearm, or is it reason for it? let's assume he's armed and you're not. everyone here always touts handgun ownership as a big responsibility, but to what end?

[Hansam]

does this include idiots with CC? i've always pondered this scenario and wondered what one is supposed to do. let's say you're walking down the street and you bump into some guy passing you who happens to be carrying. some words are exchanged and it looks like it's going to come to blows. does getting into a fist fight preclude you from brandishing your firearm, or is it reason for it? let's assume he's armed and you're not. everyone here always touts handgun ownership as a big responsibility, but to what end?

Why the heck are you going to exchange words with someone to the point where it looks like its going to come to blows? I've bumped into people and had people bump into me - on some occasions even been ran into at full running force. Usually there's a, "Oops! I'm so sorry!" followed by, "It's ok. Just look where you're going next time." then, "Ok I will. Are you ok?" etc. Of course there will be variations of that exchange but I've NEVER been bumped into or bumped into someone else where its turned violent.

The question then is what exactly is YOUR mentality that you'd bump into someone and get into a violent situation simply because of an accident?

Now to address the OP.

I'd carry and if I saw the necessity (gun pointed at my colleagues and me is definitely a necessity in my mind) I'd draw to protect my party and myself. Whether the other members of the party are dissenters or not of my actions can be dealt with later after everyone is safe. As for allowing said members of the party to know I'm armed - that would never have happened unless I needed to draw. CC is as much a mental game as it is about carrying a weapon.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Short & to the point.
You went through the effort to get a CCP. "It's your business only!" I see no need to discuss or look for approval from others who may take exception to your Right and or privalige to protect yourself under your State Law. Just my opinion on the subject.