Duplicating Factory...7.62 NATO

RonC1 · February 5, 2012, 02:18 PM

I have a Polytech M14S. I have fired three different surplus M80 loads, OVF, AFF and LC headstamps. All give a velocity of roughly 2750 to 2800 fps.

I have loaded WRA 69 once-fired brass with CCI #34 primers and worked up to 44 gr of IMR 4895 which is max or near max. I am only getting around 2625 fps. All shooting was done in the same session.

Is there a better powder that will more closely approach factory velocities and still meet the pressure and burn rate needs of a military semi-automatic rifle?

Ike666 · February 5, 2012, 02:52 PM

What bullet are you using? My LC M80 is pushing a 147 grain bullet. Do you have pulled bullets or are you using a heavier commercial bullet?

Jimro · February 5, 2012, 04:54 PM

IMR 4895 is better for heavier pills than 144~149 gr FMJ bullets that make up most NATO spec ball loadings. As they say in Maine, "you can't get there from here" in terms of the velocity you are looking for with the powder you are using.

Mil spec for M80 Ball:

Bullet: 149 grain FMJ
Powder: 46 grains WC846, 41 grains IMR 4475, or 41.5 grains IMR 8138
Velocity = 2750 +/- 30 fps @ 78 ft.
Pressure = 50,000 psi max average.
Accuracy = Carton or clip pack - 5" mean radius @ 600 yards, link pack - 7.52" mean radius, max average at 600 yards.

WC846 is available as a canister powder to reloaders as BLC-2 and it is where I would suggest starting for duplicating M80 ball.

Jimro

mehavey · February 5, 2012, 06:00 PM

Like BLC(2), H380 is another military/canister powder.
I have had excellent results with it in my M1A and 47-ish grains should get a 150grain FMJ into the mid 2,700s for ~50-51,000ksi

I was running it for 168's and 175-SMKs here...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...04&postcount=1
...but you get the picture.

RonC1 · February 5, 2012, 06:47 PM

Thanks for the responses. I didn't know what powder was being used in military ammo. I sort of guessed that since 4895 had been used in M2 ball that it might work pretty well with M80 as well.

Ike, I am using bullets pulled from authentic M80, ~147 fmj, boat tail.

One more question. Am I okay with the lower velocity so long as the round is reliable, i.e., reliably cycles the action, and groups acceptably?

I have been trying to limit the different kinds of powder I use. Instead, perhaps I should limit the calibres I buy and load.

Jimro · February 5, 2012, 08:58 PM

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...ir=278|283|999

Buy in bulk and save! Actually, spend more now so you spend less later.

Jimro

steve4102 · February 5, 2012, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Bullet: 149 grain FMJ
Powder: 46 grains WC846, 41 grains IMR 4475, or 41.5 grains IMR 8138
Velocity = 2750 +/- 30 fps @ 78 ft.
Pressure = 50,000 psi max average. 50,000 CUP
Accuracy = Carton or clip pack - 5" mean radius @ 600 yards, link pack - 7.52" mean radius, max average at 600 yards.

There, fixed it for ya.

mehavey · February 5, 2012, 09:27 PM

For the 308Win, the SAAMI pressures are 52,000CUP/60,000psi.
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf

Looking at all three references: the source of the loading data...,
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=294259
...QuickLoad and and the SAAMI specs, I believe your 50,000psi figure is correct
(relatively mild)

Archie · February 5, 2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonC1

Am I okay with the lower velocity so long as the round is reliable, i.e., reliably cycles the action, and groups acceptably?

Yes, you are.

"Match" ammo for the M14 rifle runs about 2500-2550 f/s. Depending on what you intend, velocities of 2600 f/s will probably do anything you need to do with 7.62x51 or .308 Winchester cartridge. Your sight correction may take an extra 'click' or two beyond 300 yards, but a little variance is normal even with issue ammo.

Ask yourself this: What will this load NOT do I need to accomplish? Probably very little.

February 5, 2012, 02:18 PM	#1
RonC1 Member Join Date: February 10, 2006 Location: East of the mountains Posts: 35	Duplicating Factory...7.62 NATO I have a Polytech M14S. I have fired three different surplus M80 loads, OVF, AFF and LC headstamps. All give a velocity of roughly 2750 to 2800 fps. I have loaded WRA 69 once-fired brass with CCI #34 primers and worked up to 44 gr of IMR 4895 which is max or near max. I am only getting around 2625 fps. All shooting was done in the same session. Is there a better powder that will more closely approach factory velocities and still meet the pressure and burn rate needs of a military semi-automatic rifle?

February 5, 2012, 02:52 PM	#2
Ike666 Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SW VA Posts: 491	What bullet are you using? My LC M80 is pushing a 147 grain bullet. Do you have pulled bullets or are you using a heavier commercial bullet? __________________ ___________________ "I'm your huckleberry."

February 5, 2012, 08:58 PM	#6
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...ir=278\|283\|999 Buy in bulk and save! Actually, spend more now so you spend less later. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

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February 5, 2012, 04:54 PM	#3
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	IMR 4895 is better for heavier pills than 144~149 gr FMJ bullets that make up most NATO spec ball loadings. As they say in Maine, "you can't get there from here" in terms of the velocity you are looking for with the powder you are using. Mil spec for M80 Ball: Bullet: 149 grain FMJ Powder: 46 grains WC846, 41 grains IMR 4475, or 41.5 grains IMR 8138 Velocity = 2750 +/- 30 fps @ 78 ft. Pressure = 50,000 psi max average. Accuracy = Carton or clip pack - 5" mean radius @ 600 yards, link pack - 7.52" mean radius, max average at 600 yards. WC846 is available as a canister powder to reloaders as BLC-2 and it is where I would suggest starting for duplicating M80 ball. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

February 5, 2012, 06:00 PM	#4
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,882	Like BLC(2), H380 is another military/canister powder. I have had excellent results with it in my M1A and 47-ish grains should get a 150grain FMJ into the mid 2,700s for ~50-51,000ksi I was running it for 168's and 175-SMKs here... http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...04&postcount=1 ...but you get the picture.

February 5, 2012, 06:47 PM	#5
RonC1 Member Join Date: February 10, 2006 Location: East of the mountains Posts: 35	Thanks for the responses. I didn't know what powder was being used in military ammo. I sort of guessed that since 4895 had been used in M2 ball that it might work pretty well with M80 as well. Ike, I am using bullets pulled from authentic M80, ~147 fmj, boat tail. One more question. Am I okay with the lower velocity so long as the round is reliable, i.e., reliably cycles the action, and groups acceptably? I have been trying to limit the different kinds of powder I use. Instead, perhaps I should limit the calibres I buy and load.

February 5, 2012, 09:27 PM	#8
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,882	For the 308Win, the SAAMI pressures are 52,000CUP/60,000psi. http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf Looking at all three references: the source of the loading data..., http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=294259 ...QuickLoad and and the SAAMI specs, I believe your 50,000psi figure is correct (relatively mild)