Houston carjacking victim may not face charges for shooting attackers

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I said before - don't count on Texas as a magic land where you can just blaze away. It's a throw of the dice about a jury and your lawyer's presentation.

You can be the one that gets a jury that doesn't buy into your story.

[Double Naught Spy]

Oh, and again, I said nothing about using this as a defense which means it's not being claimed and isn't being ruled on.

So what you are saying is that you are willing to use lethal force against another person that you think might go to your home.

I must say fellas, if this happened to me and they got my car, (BMW with garage door remote built in), papers in the glove box with my home address, etc... If those were the thoughts in my mind at that moment, that they might go after my family and I pretty much have no way to stop them in time. I'd be pulling the trigger too.

I said I would most likely be pulling the trigger and I'll take my chances in court but those freaks are not going to drive away with access to my family period, law be damned.

Then it sounds like you would likely be committing a felony and are advocating such here, "law be damned" as you said.

[lcpiper]

and are advocating such here

I wrote what I wrote, I related that in the same circumstances I would have likely done the same as this individual did.

So please take your words out of my mouth, I haven't advocated anything to anyone else.

[Dashunde]

don't count on Texas as a magic land where you can just blaze away.

Many have said that "a armed society is a polite society".
I think we should put that to a modern day test, without the "Wild West" antics of yesteryear, and Texas is the perfect proving ground with its wide expanses of rural areas and its several large cities, along with its wide array of ethnic and economic residents.

I really would like to see the results of a 10 year test using Texas with nearly zero firearms restrictions and little fear of prosecution if you validly defend your person, family, possessions or another person from harm.
By "validly" I simply mean using your CCW to stop/disrupt/end a violent armed felony that you didnt play any role in starting.
A full analysis of individual events and overall crime statistics within that era would be incredibly interesting, and perhaps useful to the rest of the country.

[lcpiper]

using Texas with nearly zero firearms restrictions and little fear of prosecution if you validly defend your person, family, possessions or another person from harm.

Why Texas, Arizona already has better then a one year head start and it is equally as diverse, if on a smaller scale.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Valid is determined when the jury speaks. That's the kicker in the 'good' shoot incidents. Both Frank and I have documented good shoots that go bad.

[MLeake]

Not even then, IIRC. Precedent isn't set until an appellate court rules on a case.

[OldMarksman]

Posted by Dashunde: I really would like to see the results of a 10 year test using Texas with nearly zero firearms restrictions and little fear of prosecution if you validly defend your person, family, possessions or another person from harm.

Texas firearms restrictions are not materially different from those of many other states. A permit is required to carry concealed, open carry is prohibited except on one's on property, and there are a number of places where it is unlawful to carry firearms.

The use of force laws in Texas are in line with most other states in which there is a castle doctrine and no duty to retreat. The law on presenting a firearm is somewhat less restrictive than those of forty four or forty five other jurisdictions, and Texas is unique in terms of excusing the use of deadly force to protect or recover tangible, moveable property under limited circumstances.

By "validly" I simply mean using your CCW to stop/disrupt/end a violent armed felony that you didnt play any role in starting.

There is more to "validity" than not having initiated an encounter. Most important is the need for immediate necessity.

And again, Texas differs little from other states in terms of justification when violent armed felonies are involved.

[OldMarksman]

The relevant parts of Section 9.42 are as follows:

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

The operative words are in bold text.

The actor reportedly shot a person who had just robbed him and who was driving away in his car.

The time of day provision only applies in cases of theft or when it is necessary to prevent criminal mischief, which is covered elsewhere.

Had the actor shot the robbers before their having tried to drive away in his car, different parts of the code (9.32 and 9.42 ,(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime;) would apply.

[Evan Thomas]

Thaanks, OldMarksman -- that's very clear.