|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
December 13, 2021, 01:32 AM | #126 | |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,972
|
Quote:
Castle Doctrine states that if the qualifying circumstances apply (which they certainly do not in this case, but that's another story) that then the presumption of justification applies. The justification required is still the exactly the same when Castle Doctrine applies as when it does not. The difference is that when Castle Doctrine does apply, the state in the absence of evidence to the contrary must assume that the the person did have reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily harm and was therefore justified. That doesn't mean that the state is prevented from proving that justification doesn't exist. If there is evidence that there was no, or could be no, reasonable fear of death or serious injury, then the state is still free to bring that evidence and can successfully convict the person if that evidence is sufficient.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
|
December 13, 2021, 03:44 AM | #127 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 6,875
|
Quote:
These are those very types of scenarios that as the victim you can't allow the aggressor to take the weapon to see if they actually would do as they said they would . These are split second decisions and you better make the right one . I truly hope I never have to make that decision . I'm still conflicted on this one . Rittenhouse seemed pretty straight forward but this one not so much . IMHO I believe Carruth was legally justified but don't think he should have shot . I honestly don't know what I'd do if I were on the jury knowing only what I know now . As I said before , the charges and jury instructions are going to be key in this case if it ever goes to trial .
__________________
If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
|
December 13, 2021, 09:14 AM | #128 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
Quote:
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
December 14, 2021, 01:02 AM | #129 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 6, 2008
Location: Northeast Colorado
Posts: 1,993
|
Think through the potential scenario if Read hadn't been shot. I fully understand this is only a thought game, but to get a better feel for what Carruth was facing, it applies, in my opinion. Read was being verbally belligerent, had refused to leave the premises and when confronted with "force" he threatened Carruth. Upon grabbing the firearm, Read's strength and size advantage was certainly intimidating to Carruth. Once Read managed to swing Carruth off the porch, the future appears pretty damned bleak for Carruth. Does anyone believe at that point Read would calm down and leave? What would have happened if he wasn't shot? The interaction was ramped up to a level of high risk for Carruth. Split second decisions as we all know are often difficult to untangle because of the complexity of conflict. The best predictor of the future is the past. Read didn't back down, he didn't show any intention of leaving. The trajectory of the conflict to that point was not favorable to Carruth. Perhaps the shooting wasn't ethically or morally acceptable to us sitting at home, but to a smaller man that was confronted with possible injury or death, the decision to shoot was likely correct.
|
December 14, 2021, 09:18 AM | #130 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2006
Location: Eastern, TN
Posts: 1,236
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood Does not morality imply the last clear chance? - WildAlaska - |
||
December 14, 2021, 12:52 PM | #131 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,813
|
Quote:
That being said, someone who 30 seconds ago (the past) said they were going to take my gun and use it on me, and then grabs my gun, I'd take that past as an accurate predictor of their intentions. Its kind of stupid to wait until a growling snarling snapping dog bites you before deciding he's not there to give you doggy kisses.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
December 14, 2021, 06:00 PM | #132 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 9, 2007
Posts: 1,119
|
Quote:
Legally and tactically I think Carruth should have stayed as calm as possible outside and brought his girlfriend inside. If Reed had made any attempt to enter the home then game over. He's lucky Reed didn't actually get the gun during the chest bumping. |
|
December 14, 2021, 09:51 PM | #133 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
Quote:
Carruth was on Carruth property (no doubt which will be backed Carruth's father who will say his son had full authority to act as his agent) and had the legal right under Texas law to use force (display a gun) to get Read to leave Carruth property Read had already been told to leave.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
December 15, 2021, 07:59 AM | #134 |
Staff
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,821
|
Moderator Note: As y'all probably remember, we moderate L&CR with a pretty firm hand. With that said, let's see if we can avoid rumor-mongering and speculation (particularly with how this would have played out in other states). This case may, like the Rittenhouse case, present us with a claim of SD that we can watch from start to finish as it unfolds. Historically, that's been a pretty rare educational opportunity.
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some. |
December 15, 2021, 12:29 PM | #135 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 12, 2020
Posts: 1,177
|
I think there is a lot of missing info in this case. From what I have seen, there is no camera angle that captures the deceased when the shots were fired, unlike Rittenhouse where we had multiple angles and cameras so that everyone involved was pretty much always in frame.
So we really do not know what the shooter saw when he fired. The other thing, that is huge IMO, that is missing here is that these people were not strangers. They had an existing relationship (that afaik, we know nothing about) which will likely inform potential motives. |
December 16, 2021, 01:00 AM | #136 | |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,972
|
Quote:
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
|
April 1, 2022, 08:27 AM | #137 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
NOT INDICTED
The evidence simply wasn't there to support criminal charges for the shooting. Quote:
https://kfyo.com/grand-jury-declines...-of-chad-read/ https://www.lubbockonline.com/story/...es/7239858001/
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
April 1, 2022, 12:14 PM | #138 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 6,875
|
Well I thought it could have gone either way really . I would not have been surprised if it had gone the other way . I'm assuming the fact the incident happened in Texas and there laws had a big factor in the result . Here in CA Caruth would likely already be in jail for life or at minimum held with out bail until trial .
__________________
If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
April 1, 2022, 12:35 PM | #139 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 5,312
|
Thanks for coming back to this thread and posting the results.
|
|
|