This Colt - any info?

[Ignacio49]

Appreciate any info about this Colt.
S/N seems to be 719, located in frame and yoke and also latch (see pics)
Thanks, and Merry Christmas everybody!!!
Ignacio


---------------------------------------------------------------

Found another host for my pics. Thanks to Adrian.

[SaxonPig]

Could you give a clue on caliber? That would help a lot.

Shape of cylinder release suggests a 1917 or earlier. Caliber maybe 45? Sign on lanyard on butt? The engraving has obliterated any model name or caliber stamp. If it's a 38 it might be an 1892 Army Model.

[RickB]

Looks like some variation on the New Army revolver, which was the granddaddy of the Official Police and eventually, the Python.
There were a half-dozen different models made in the 1890s and early '00s.

It's best known for service in the Spanish American war, and its failure in the Philippines, leading to development and adoption of the M1911.

The serial number, and model number if it's G.I. should be on the toe of the butt.
It's not uncommon to have military markings removed.

"719" is probably an assembly number to ensure that the crane and frame remained matched during the manufacture and finishing process.

[Dfariswheel]

You have a Colt New Navy revolver.

In 1889 Colt invented the modern double action swing-out cylinder revolver.
It was first bought that year by the US Navy, and in 1892 the Army also bought it.
The Navy version is recognized by not having cylinder locking notches on the outside. The Army model had two rows of locking notches on the outside of the cylinder.

These were made in various upgraded versions until 1907 when they were discontinued.
These were made as both US issue guns and as commercial sales guns.
US Army and US Navy issue guns will be stamped as such on the bottom of the butt along with the serial number.
Commercial models will have only the serial number, stamped in two lines on the butt.

US issue models were chambered in the .38 Long Colt, commercial guns were in .38 Long Colt, .41 Long Colt, and after about 1903 in .38 Special and .32-20.
It was the New Army Model 1896 in .38 Long Colt that failed in the Philippines and led to the adoption of the .45 Automatic.

As above. the serial number is stamped on the bottom of the butt for both military and commercial guns.
The other numbers are factory assembly numbers used to keep fitted parts together during manufacture.

If the serial number is not on the butt it's been ground off. This is not uncommon with military issue guns.
A missing serial number means the gun is illegal to possess.

I suspect you have a commercial New Navy model.
You can buy an Archive letter from Colt that will tell who the gun was shipped to, and if it was factory engraved and plated.
Normally the military models shipped with smooth walnut grips, the commercial models shipped with black hard rubber grips with molded in checkering and Colt logos.

https://www.colt.com/Customer-Services/Archive-Services

Here's some more info on the Colt New Army & Navy models:

http://www.coltfever.com/New_Army___Navy.html

NOTE: The .38 Long Colt IS NOT suitable for use with ANY .38 Special ammo unless it was made after about 1903.
You can still buy .38 Long Colt ammo from the cowboy ammo makers, and you can shoot very light loads in .38 Special brass, but since the Long Colt barrel's bore is large then the .38 Special, accuracy wouldn't be great.

Due to the fragile action, unless these are in really good shape and gunsmith inspected, they're best to be used as display guns.

[Jim Watson]

Looks like first version DA Navy, Dfaris has biography, left wheeler with bolt notches in rear face of cylinder.

Interesting choice for engraving and target grips.

[Bill DeShivs]

I believe the gun to have been factory engraved. Unfortunately, someone badly polished the gun, and then chrome plated it. This destroyed most of the gun's value,

[Ignacio49]

Thanks for your good help.
I just found out that I have to find another host to FREE post my pics.
Working on that...

[Adrian]

Originally Posted by Ignacio49

I just found out that I have to find another host to FREE post my pics.
Working on that...

www.imgur.com seems to be well-liked and reliable.

[Ignacio49]

Thanks Adrian. Will look into it.

..........................

So far so good. Thanks again.

.

[Ignacio49]

More pics. First one shows a 38 spcl cartridge on top of cylinder, to get an idea of cylinder size...if that matters.

[Ignacio49]

Originally Posted by SaxonPig

Could you give a clue on caliber? That would help a lot.

Shape of cylinder release suggests a 1917 or earlier. Caliber maybe 45? Sign on lanyard on butt? The engraving has obliterated any model name or caliber stamp. If it's a 38 it might be an 1892 Army Model.

It is a .38, most probably a .38 Long Colt as per above comments. Not a .38 spcl, as it doesn't fit snugly in the cylinder.

[Old Stony]

I would have to guess some aftermarket engraving. I agree the finishing work done afterward wasn't kind to the engraving, but some of the cuts and lines just don't seem to have the nice precision as factory stuff to me. I've seen some done like this from Mexico and other countries. Just my uneducated opinion...

[Ignacio49]

.

More/bigger pics to -hopefully- better show the good or bad quality of the engraving/finishing

[Dfariswheel]

Just as an observation, the engraving on the barrel doesn't seem to be the quality of the engraving on the frame.

This might mean the barrel was replaced at a later date and a lesser talent engraver did the work on the barrel.

Again, about the only way you'll know much more then you know now is to spend the money for a Colt Archive letter.
This might have some interesting information about the gun and buyer, or might show shipment of a standard pistol to some hardware store.

[Bill DeShivs]

As a hand engraver, I'll make these observations:
Engraving pattern is very similar to factory engraved guns of the same era.
Engraving quality is about the same as other engraved Colts of the era.
Backstrap and barrel apparently had major pitting and were heavily polished-washing out engraving detail.

[Ignacio49]

Thanks for all your comments.
What would you say is the value of this piece nowadays?

[RickB]

With an intact serial number . . .

The last one of these that I handled would accept .38 Specials, even though it was a military pistol chambered in .38 Colt.

The cylinder didn't lock properly, the finish was lightly pitted overall, and I offered $100.
The old gal said a local gun store had already offered $200, which means they apparently thought it was worth $300 or more.

[Dfariswheel]

Up until about 1903, the Colt New Army & Navy in .38 Long Colt had no throats in the chambers. They were bored straight through.

Only after about 1903 when they began clambering them in .38 Special did they start using throated chambers.

In fact, while the round is too long for the cylinder, you can drop a .357 Magnum cartridge into a Colt .38 Long Colt cylinder.

[Ignacio49]

Thanks for your help and comments.

Best wishes for the new year.
Ignacio

[Dfariswheel]

You asked about value......

That's a tough call because there are a number of factors that affect value.
First is the mechanical condition. Does it work? Is it in proper adjustment and timing?. Is is rusted or pitted? Are all the parts factory original as shipped by Colt? How good are the bore and chambers?

Next the finish. How much of the original finish is left? Has it been refinished or altered? Does it have the original grips or at least original type grips?
A Colt factory engraved gun will have more value then a non-factory job, or a lower quality job by an unknown engraver.
To determine that, if possible, you need the factory Archive letter.

Finally, real value is best determined in an auction where the market puts a value on it.
Trying to assign a value to a gun that obviously been refinished, and engraved by who knows who is a task for a professional firearms appraiser.
Your insurance company can probably put you in touch with a professional who can give you a value for insurance purposes. This too will cost money.

[Jim Watson]

If there is another engraved 1889 with thumb rest grips, I would be surprised. There is just nothing to go by to set a dollar value.

No "appraisal" not backed by a cash offer means anything.
If you put it on auction, you will know its value in that place that day. And it will be gone. Do you mean to liquidate it or just have a brag number?

[Ignacio49]

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

No "appraisal" not backed by a cash offer means anything.
If you put it on auction, you will know its value in that place that day. And it will be gone. Do you mean to liquidate it or just have a brag number?

Sure Jim. This one belongs to a friend who hoped it was a valuable collector's item. That not being the case he just wanted to know its value, a ballpark figure.

[Dfariswheel]

Again, all the factors I listed above come into play.
It's near impossible to set any value on such a non-standard gun.

For a New Army & Navy model to have much value it has to be working and in pretty good shape.

My Blue Book of Gun Values is out of date, but general numbers for a standard blued model are as follows. This doesn't take into affect the plated finish or the engraving.
The Blue Book establishes ball park values based on the percentage of remaining ORIGINAL finish, so that's were the difficulty comes in with this gun.
The following values are for the New Navy Model.
There were 31,000 made for the Navy and commercial sales between 1889 and 1895.

10%--$300
20%--$350
30%--$425
40%--$500
50%--$600
60%--$700
70%--$850
80%--$1,050
90%--$1,350