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#176 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 2,711
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Ah, we like to argue. That assumes anyone has actually tried it.
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Not an expert, just a reporter. |
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#177 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 387
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Hearing Damage
What happened to me: There was a time where hearing protection was unknown. We shot without benefit of hearing protection for years. The army was slow to supply hearing protection. Ear plugs came after we qualified with M-14's Afterward it was shotguns and rifles at home. What was happening is the accumulated damage to the hearing. When you hear the ringing the damage is done. Today I wear a hearing aid. My partner gave me a pair of high end electronic ear muffs. He said he was tired of yelling at me. Anybody that regularly shoots without hearing protection is headed for an ear trumpet. It's just plain stupid not to use hearing protection.
Added: Do you think a compact Glock like a G26 or G27 would work OK for confrontations less than 10 yards. Would the bullets just bounce of the targets?
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Is it possible that some snarky folks go through life with full Huggies trying to enlighten others? ![]() Last edited by J.G. Terry; December 1, 2019 at 05:54 PM. |
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#178 | |
Member
Join Date: March 16, 2018
Posts: 16
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Quote:
Theory may not agree with this but real world shooting does. I’m not up to speed on ballistic theory or very interested in it. However I have shot enough critters with a hand gun over the last 30 years to understand which loads kill the quickest and most efficiently. I’m more interested in the damage a bullet does to a living creature rather than a block of jelly. |
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#179 |
Member
Join Date: October 12, 2019
Posts: 86
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The simple answer is because it comes with the territory and they feel confident that 5-8 rounds of ammunition is sufficient.
Personally, I could see carrying something like a S&W TRR8 or a Taurus 627 and not feeling underarmed. .357 Magnum has a long and storied history of effectiveness which I don't doubt, so if you're a good shot and can land those shots directly on target, then there's little reason to doubt that 8 rounds of .357 Magnum would be insufficient for anything less than facing multiple attackers, and in which case you're probably just as screwed with a double-stack 9mm, the only difference is you have more unfired cartridges for CSI to find in your gun afterwards. People can argue all day about how statistically 9mm Luger is just as good *swings arm in an upward arc* as anything else because the FBI says so and simulated tests cannot detect any difference, but I imagine that a bigger stretch cavity likely equates to more pain, (Try pinching your earlobe then stretching it out, then stretch it further. Hurts more when stretched further, right?) and obviously the brighter muzzle flash and report are obviously more frightening, so there's likely also a higher probability of psychological stops with .357 Magnum versus 9mm Luger as well, and if a stop is a stop, why split hairs?
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I know that Balistics Gel is merely a tissue simulent, but until the day comes in which convicted registered sex offenders are put to good use as a testing medium for ballistics, it's the best we've got. Besides, Ballistics Gel is probably the closest thing to the sort of human sludge that typically requires the use of a firearm in self-defense. Last edited by Forte S+W; December 1, 2019 at 07:49 PM. |
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#180 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 387
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Miracle bullets
Miracle bullets: I read where one of the new miracle bullet in 9mm actually expands to .451. This combination should replace everything. Ha.
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Is it possible that some snarky folks go through life with full Huggies trying to enlighten others? ![]() |
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#181 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,769
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Quote:
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Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. |
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#182 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 1,251
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Damn Nanuk, I don't think I would want to have you mad at me... I can't imagine that bear paw wrapped around my neck! Lol!!!
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#183 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 387
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G29 in 10mm
Carry Gun: How would a Glock 29, the 10mm compact, stack up against the revolvers of which you speak? That Glock handgun as a 3.77" barrels. How long is the barrel on those 357 pocket pistols?
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Is it possible that some snarky folks go through life with full Huggies trying to enlighten others? ![]() |
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#184 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,769
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Quote:
For the same reason the 357 Sig is effective, but, neither are popular with the jello crowd. In real people, magnum revolver wounds can resemble rifle type wounds. Organs turn to jelly and trauma is indicative of high velocity rounds. Granted, not every one is identical but they are still very effective. Having been a student of the gun for some decades and having been carrying a gun professionally since people still used solid lead bullets on duty. I can say that for all the "improvement" with pistol bullets, many people still take an awful lot of 9mm bullets to stop them.
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Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. |
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#185 | |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,633
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Quote:
If there is some hard data on stopping-power/real-world effectiveness from a reliable source that compares .357Mag with 9mm and conclusively picks a winner, I'd be interested to see it.
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Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
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#186 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,769
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Quote:
You can also see jello tests that show the expansion/fragmentation of the old Remington load. M&S were not the only ones. Massad Ayoub had the same opinion.
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Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. |
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#187 |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,633
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Yes, it was (and probably still is) a common opinion--not arguing that. There are a lot of common opinions when it comes to handgun effectiveness. The problem is always the inevitable disappointment that results from attempts to find hard data to back up those common opinions.
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Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
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#188 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,769
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Quote:
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Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. |
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#189 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: Burien,WA
Posts: 793
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Is this thread going the way of the other high-cap thread?, that's the real question IMHO.
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Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE 9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c |
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#190 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 387
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Direction? 357 SIG
Direction: It's no bad thing. Looks like it boils down to ,"I like what I like," Next comes the scientific explanation with the response"....what are you thinking." Basically, it's a discussion among "Gun Guys." You don't think this bunch is opinionated? Never, not in a million years
![]() 357 SIG: Really, the 357 SIG actually has a couple of things running against it. Firstly, it is difficult to reload. I does get easier but the learning experience is tough. Next, The Big Box does not carry inexpensive ammunition. I took my OEM 357 SIG barrel out of my G23 when the 40 S&W brouhaha started. Would my Glock 23 work at ranges 10 yards or less as a 357 SIG. Was not the 357 SIG designed to duplicate some other round in a high capacity self-loader? Now, what round was that? Is it true that in a crisis situation it is not unusual for individuals fire all the rounds in the handgun in response? I'd still be going while somebody else is looking the the speed loader. ![]() Added: Is not 1400fps really 1400fps regardless?
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Is it possible that some snarky folks go through life with full Huggies trying to enlighten others? ![]() Last edited by J.G. Terry; December 2, 2019 at 07:00 AM. |
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#191 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 11, 2016
Posts: 1,006
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Quote:
I never said a blessed thing about caliber, magnums, powder or anything. Just capacity. Pure and simple. Do you say "I think 5-6 rounds are plenty, and I like revolvers so I'll carry one?" Or do you say "I am sold on the merits of revolvers for CCW, and so I'll live with 5-6 rounds?" Here we are discussing magnum ballistics. Anyways, the other thread is still alive and well, so I expect this will still be going at Christmas ![]() |
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#192 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 387
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Right on the topic. The caliber has to be factored in. For example, my revolver is a top break 32S&W long compared to your 10mm compact. I really don't thinks it's possible to have this kind of thread without going in the caliber direction at some point. We'll probably all agree that handgun type and caliber is a hot button topic.
I just ordered a Tom Threepersons holster for my 45 Colt caliber 4 5/8" Ruger Vaquero. Guess what's that going to be used for? Talk about old fashioned!
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Is it possible that some snarky folks go through life with full Huggies trying to enlighten others? ![]() |
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#193 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,206
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![]() Quote:
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PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” |
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#194 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2014
Posts: 387
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Not discussing caliber etc
Really not discussing caliber in number of shots is odd. Now the ballistics part is another critter. The next question after the number of shots is what? The question would follow is what caliber. Right after that follows the ballistics. Trying to control this stuff is like driving the wrong way up the interstate.
![]() Except: How would it be if the OP stated the number of shots without regard to caliber....? To me,with some reservations, it would be fourteen. Rogues come in packs around here.
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Is it possible that some snarky folks go through life with full Huggies trying to enlighten others? ![]() |
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#195 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,859
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Quote:
![]() I carried a 6-shot .357MAG on-duty, and either a .357MAG, Commander (7+1/.45) or .44MAG off-duty, until I got tired of lugging full-size steel on my time off and started carrying 5-shot snubs. Qualification courses-of-fire could involve shooting positions out to 50yds, so revolver shooters had to pay attention to basics. Capacity isn't as high on my own list of practical concerns as it may be for other folks who have learned their handgunning skills using hi-cap pistols. I tend to prefer my retirement CCW revolvers to hold 5-6 rounds, and my pistols to hold 6-10 rounds. (Although I do own a "hi-cap" .40 that uses 12rd mags.) Different strokes. Personally, I'm much more concerned about being able to put the first 1-3 rounds where I intend for them to go.
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Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer |
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#196 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 10, 2000
Posts: 215
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See post #15
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#197 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 1,251
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J G Terry "I just ordered a Tom Threepersons holster for my 45 Colt caliber 4 5/8" Ruger Vaquero. Guess what's that going to be used for? Talk about old fashioned!"
No argument here... that's a perfect packing pistol!!! |
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#198 |
Junior Member
Join Date: December 3, 2019
Posts: 4
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#199 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 8, 2015
Posts: 777
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Quote:
Agree wholeheartedly Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#200 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 8, 2001
Location: Deep South Texas
Posts: 1,184
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There is always the classic Dump Pouch.
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