Lee Factory Crimp Die - Any advantage - Page 2

wogpotter · January 27, 2015, 08:42 AM

Again rifle FCD is a totally different die from the pistol Carbide FCD. Because of the differences in function & construction you really cant quote one with reference to the other.

Sky Master · January 28, 2015, 10:06 AM

Don't believe their statement about not buckling a case. I have buckled .357 cases when I adjusted the crimp too much.

A pause for the COZ · January 28, 2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Don't believe their statement about not buckling a case. I have buckled .357 cases when I adjusted the crimp too much.

LEE does make a collet crimp die for the 357 magnum. I have one and use it exclusively for 357 mag. Has no carbide ring ether.

BillSussman · November 23, 2019, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1100 tac

lee FCD for pistol is an ingenious solution for a non existent problem, if there are bulges and other irregularities in the cases they need to be addressed before primers are seated and the powder is thrown!

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I wanted to make a comment on how I started using the Lee FCD. All my 9mm brass is range pick up and at first I never used the Lee FCD. For some reason Remington brass tends to bulge from seating the bullet but it still fired fine in all my guns. I picked up a Beretta 92FS and for some reason every now and then I would get round that wouldn't seat into the chamber properly, when this happened it was always a Remington case that was slightly bulged from the seated bullet. Anyways, I started using the Lee FCD which flattened out the bulge caused by the seated bullet and I never had an issue with that Beretta or any other 9mm again.

**Unclenick** · November 23, 2019, 04:11 PM

Bill,

It was probably the bullet being a little oversized that cause the issue, and the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die can size it down through the brass.

All the carbide sizing dies for pistol cartridges have a fixed diameter sizing ring (except the expensive Redding two-ring sizing dies). So, unless you use the old steel dies or the Redding die, you have a single diameter ring squeezing the case down all the way and not replicating the original taper in the case design. This is main cause of the bulge that mirrors the location of the base of the bullet. I see it in all carbide resized 45 Auto, regardless of case brand. R-P brass can show it more sharply in 45 Auto because the neck portion of the R-P case is extra thin in that chambering. The same may be true in the 9 mm (I don't have any 9 mm Parabellum guns, so I don't know from experience).

603Country · November 23, 2019, 08:53 PM

I run all cast bullet 357 reloads through a Lee FCD. My occasional chambering problems are gone. It does seem like I am resizing a few cast bullets through the case walls.

BillSussman · November 24, 2019, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 603Country

I run all cast bullet 357 reloads through a Lee FCD. My occasional chambering problems are gone. It does seem like I am resizing a few cast bullets through the case walls.

Yea the Lee FCD gives revolver rounds a good roll crimp. I use the collet style crimp die for 500 S&W though. It really gives a heavy roll crimp!

pete2 · November 24, 2019, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris in va

I'm all ears.

The bulge that's caused by the base of the bullet is what is corrected by the die with the sizing ring in it. I don't see why it's called a factory crimp die, the .45 and 9mm have normal taper crimps just like any other taper crimp die, The sizing ring does help me as some of the rounds have a bulge and don't drop freely into my 625 chambers. They work in all my semis even with the bulges. Some of the cast bullets I use are .4525 to e.453, some brass is thicker and make the ammo to large for the revolver. .451 bullets wouldn't need the sizing ring.

Real Gun · November 25, 2019, 08:26 AM

The FCD should never be used for deliberately sizing bullets in finished rounds. When bullets are known to be oversized, they should be sized to standard before use, possibly coated with Alox, while the wax ring should still be intact. I have sized some coated bullets by .001 and did not see the coating being stripped.

It doesn't matter what diameter the gun "likes". What matters is the diameter anticipated in the die design or else the case wall thickness, which can vary by head stamp and affecting the net ID of the sized case and then bullet tension.

kmw1954 · November 25, 2019, 04:10 PM

An old zombie topic but as I read thru it again it raised this thought and question, and have heard and read many of the statements before regarding this die. But here goes.

The statement, to find the problem with the load always strikes me.

I have a 45acp Witness that is much the same as the CZ 45acp which are known to have very tight spec barrels in them. Mine to the point that I had terrible trouble getting it to reliably cycle and chamber reloaded ammunition. These reloads were well within spec and posed no problem for any other gun I loaded them into. None what so ever!

After months of fighting this and posting on every forum I could it was finally suggested in a way I had to take seriously, by a mod on the CZ forum, to try a Lee Carbide FCD. I did that and the chambering problem vanished instantly.

This poses the question, Do you then use this cheap $30.00 die solution to remedy the problem or do you take this perfectly fine pistol barrel and send it out to be altered so that it will chamber reloads?

Real Gun · November 25, 2019, 05:21 PM

Quote:

An old zombie topic but as I read thru it again it raised this thought and question, and have heard and read many of the statements before regarding this die. But here goes.

The statement, to find the problem with the load always strikes me.

I have a 45acp Witness that is much the same as the CZ 45acp which are known to have very tight spec barrels in them. Mine to the point that I had terrible trouble getting it to reliably cycle and chamber reloaded ammunition. These reloads were well within spec and posed no problem for any other gun I loaded them into. None what so ever!

After months of fighting this and posting on every forum I could it was finally suggested in a way I had to take seriously, by a mod on the CZ forum, to try a Lee Carbide FCD. I did that and the chambering problem vanished instantly.

This poses the question, Do you then use this cheap $30.00 die solution to remedy the problem or do you take this perfectly fine pistol barrel and send it out to be altered so that it will chamber reloads?

1) The die may be inexpensive but it is not cheap.

2) Just resize the bullets

3) Or try one of the head stamps with thinner case wall.

Rod47 · November 25, 2019, 05:22 PM

Works well with 9mm. Tapered case is post sized in area above extractor groove. Straight wall cases get their bullets resized.

603Country · November 25, 2019, 05:28 PM

Any problems I had, which were a few 357 reloads that were hard to chamber in my Python, were eliminated by use of the FCD. It’s interesting and a bit puzzling why some folks just hate the whole idea of the Lee FCD.

As for resizing the bullet, I suppose that I am resizing a rare few with the FCD. Works for me. If it cost twice as much, I’d still want one.

straight-shooter · November 25, 2019, 06:08 PM

After use with a FCD and cast bullets, pull a bullet and measure. I had a problem with the FCD resizing the cast bullet thus making it useless for my bore diameter. Jacketed bullets were not a problem.

kmw1954 · November 25, 2019, 06:35 PM

I will go on to say that I am using this Lee FCD in the instance I outlined and still believe that I can create fantastically performing ammunition for all my other pistols with just using a normal everyday Carbide 3 die set.

Which also BTW is exactly the number of positions are on my Lee Pro1000 press which I load all other high volume loads on. And to clarify myself, for me high volume is 500 which I know there are those that 500 isn't even worth starting on.

Carriertxv · November 25, 2019, 09:07 PM

I have two FCD’s for 38/357, 44 and 45 Colt. Knocked the ring out of one of each caliber and use it for cast bullets.

jetinteriorguy · November 26, 2019, 08:19 AM

The only semi auto caliber I shoot is 9mm. All of my CZ's and my M&P have fairly tight chambers and short leads. Thus I use an undersize resizing die, and the Lee FCD, in addition to loading bullets relatively short to feed reliably. Up until doing this I had problems due to bullets not chambering, just another fact of life as a Reloader, you just do what works. As long as it works, I don't fret over the process, just the results.

walnut1704 · November 26, 2019, 09:01 AM

I don't care if you use one, but I don't. For the most part with handgun ammo it corrects a problem that was created elsewhere, and I prefer to correct the issue at the source.

That said, 9mm might be the exception. With the highly variable brass and equally variable chambers, both foreign and domestic, you most likely will run into a problem sooner rather than later with some combination of components and equipment that the best solution for is the FCD.

pete2 · November 26, 2019, 10:30 AM

I've used the die with the sizing ring for a while now(45 ACP) I wouldn't use it for bullseye loads but I honestly can't tell the difference at 25 yards, still hit the heads on the IDPA targets if I do my part with both the revolver and 1911 guns. The only way to really correct it is with bullets sized to .451 and I'd rather not. I believe .451 cast bullets will create a problem worse than the bulge.
As I've said, the ammo shoots just fine after being run thru the lie. On most it doesn't size anything, on the ones it does size it's very little' barely does anything in fact.

Ben Dover · November 26, 2019, 11:33 AM

I've used the FCD on all handgun ammo as well as all my .223 and .7.62X51 since they came out.

I would never be without them. Prevents most feeding problems before they occur.

**Unclenick** · November 26, 2019, 12:20 PM

Keep in mind the rifle FCD and the handgun CFCD designs work on different principles.

The only drawback I can see to using the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die comes from, as already mentioned for 9 mm, having run into a few cases with abnormally thick walls. In 45 Auto, I once got some commercial hardball loads made in a former iron curtain country whose JRN bullets were 0.4488" (11.40 mm). The manufacturer had decided to bring the cartridge OD over the bullet to OD spec by making the brass thicker. With a 0.452" sized cast bullet, this brass prevented full chambering in my SA 1911. I pulled the bullets and powder and scrapped the small quantity of odd brass, but a CFCD would have narrowed it enough to chamber by squeezing down the cast bullet. However, a cast bullet narrowed that far would have been loose in the bore and caused leading and poor accuracy, so I would rather discover and toss such rounds than shoot them.

It has been asserted since the '50s that crimping pistol rounds as an separate operation from seating provides the mose accurate ammunition. YMMV, but it certainly stops fouling from lead rings shaved off the bullet during seating.

pete2 · November 27, 2019, 12:53 PM

Another note on the sizing ring die, I can feel when it sizes a case. One could save those that are sized when crimped and use them for blasting ammo but for IDPA type shooting they are just fine. For precision(bullseye)shooting, best to find a combination of bullet and case that doesn't bulge. My 200 SWC and the batch of GI brass I use don't bulge when loaded, for instance.

January 27, 2015, 08:42 AM	#26
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Again rifle FCD is a totally different die from the pistol Carbide FCD. Because of the differences in function & construction you really cant quote one with reference to the other. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

November 23, 2019, 04:11 PM	#30
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Bill, It was probably the bullet being a little oversized that cause the issue, and the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die can size it down through the brass. All the carbide sizing dies for pistol cartridges have a fixed diameter sizing ring (except the expensive Redding two-ring sizing dies). So, unless you use the old steel dies or the Redding die, you have a single diameter ring squeezing the case down all the way and not replicating the original taper in the case design. This is main cause of the bulge that mirrors the location of the base of the bullet. I see it in all carbide resized 45 Auto, regardless of case brand. R-P brass can show it more sharply in 45 Auto because the neck portion of the R-P case is extra thin in that chambering. The same may be true in the 9 mm (I don't have any 9 mm Parabellum guns, so I don't know from experience). __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 25, 2019, 08:26 AM	#34
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	The FCD should never be used for deliberately sizing bullets in finished rounds. When bullets are known to be oversized, they should be sized to standard before use, possibly coated with Alox, while the wax ring should still be intact. I have sized some coated bullets by .001 and did not see the coating being stripped. It doesn't matter what diameter the gun "likes". What matters is the diameter anticipated in the die design or else the case wall thickness, which can vary by head stamp and affecting the net ID of the sized case and then bullet tension. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

November 25, 2019, 04:10 PM	#35
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	An old zombie topic but as I read thru it again it raised this thought and question, and have heard and read many of the statements before regarding this die. But here goes. The statement, to find the problem with the load always strikes me. I have a 45acp Witness that is much the same as the CZ 45acp which are known to have very tight spec barrels in them. Mine to the point that I had terrible trouble getting it to reliably cycle and chamber reloaded ammunition. These reloads were well within spec and posed no problem for any other gun I loaded them into. None what so ever! After months of fighting this and posting on every forum I could it was finally suggested in a way I had to take seriously, by a mod on the CZ forum, to try a Lee Carbide FCD. I did that and the chambering problem vanished instantly. This poses the question, Do you then use this cheap $30.00 die solution to remedy the problem or do you take this perfectly fine pistol barrel and send it out to be altered so that it will chamber reloads? Last edited by kmw1954; November 25, 2019 at 04:17 PM.

November 26, 2019, 11:33 AM	#45
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	I've used the FCD on all handgun ammo as well as all my .223 and .7.62X51 since they came out. I would never be without them. Prevents most feeding problems before they occur. __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

January 28, 2015, 10:06 AM	#27
Sky Master Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2009 Posts: 136	Don't believe their statement about not buckling a case. I have buckled .357 cases when I adjusted the crimp too much.

November 23, 2019, 08:53 PM	#31
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I run all cast bullet 357 reloads through a Lee FCD. My occasional chambering problems are gone. It does seem like I am resizing a few cast bullets through the case walls.

November 25, 2019, 05:22 PM	#37
Rod47 Member Join Date: August 3, 2017 Posts: 45	Works well with 9mm. Tapered case is post sized in area above extractor groove. Straight wall cases get their bullets resized.

November 25, 2019, 05:28 PM	#38
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Any problems I had, which were a few 357 reloads that were hard to chamber in my Python, were eliminated by use of the FCD. It’s interesting and a bit puzzling why some folks just hate the whole idea of the Lee FCD. As for resizing the bullet, I suppose that I am resizing a rare few with the FCD. Works for me. If it cost twice as much, I’d still want one.

November 25, 2019, 06:08 PM	#39
straight-shooter Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2007 Location: North Central Indiana Posts: 436	After use with a FCD and cast bullets, pull a bullet and measure. I had a problem with the FCD resizing the cast bullet thus making it useless for my bore diameter. Jacketed bullets were not a problem.

November 25, 2019, 06:35 PM	#40
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	I will go on to say that I am using this Lee FCD in the instance I outlined and still believe that I can create fantastically performing ammunition for all my other pistols with just using a normal everyday Carbide 3 die set. Which also BTW is exactly the number of positions are on my Lee Pro1000 press which I load all other high volume loads on. And to clarify myself, for me high volume is 500 which I know there are those that 500 isn't even worth starting on.

November 25, 2019, 09:07 PM	#41
Carriertxv Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2013 Posts: 268	I have two FCD’s for 38/357, 44 and 45 Colt. Knocked the ring out of one of each caliber and use it for cast bullets.

November 26, 2019, 08:19 AM	#42
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,172	The only semi auto caliber I shoot is 9mm. All of my CZ's and my M&P have fairly tight chambers and short leads. Thus I use an undersize resizing die, and the Lee FCD, in addition to loading bullets relatively short to feed reliably. Up until doing this I had problems due to bullets not chambering, just another fact of life as a Reloader, you just do what works. As long as it works, I don't fret over the process, just the results.

November 26, 2019, 09:01 AM	#43
walnut1704 Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Posts: 156	I don't care if you use one, but I don't. For the most part with handgun ammo it corrects a problem that was created elsewhere, and I prefer to correct the issue at the source. That said, 9mm might be the exception. With the highly variable brass and equally variable chambers, both foreign and domestic, you most likely will run into a problem sooner rather than later with some combination of components and equipment that the best solution for is the FCD.

November 26, 2019, 10:30 AM	#44
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I've used the die with the sizing ring for a while now(45 ACP) I wouldn't use it for bullseye loads but I honestly can't tell the difference at 25 yards, still hit the heads on the IDPA targets if I do my part with both the revolver and 1911 guns. The only way to really correct it is with bullets sized to .451 and I'd rather not. I believe .451 cast bullets will create a problem worse than the bulge. As I've said, the ammo shoots just fine after being run thru the lie. On most it doesn't size anything, on the ones it does size it's very little' barely does anything in fact.

November 26, 2019, 12:20 PM	#46
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Keep in mind the rifle FCD and the handgun CFCD designs work on different principles. The only drawback I can see to using the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die comes from, as already mentioned for 9 mm, having run into a few cases with abnormally thick walls. In 45 Auto, I once got some commercial hardball loads made in a former iron curtain country whose JRN bullets were 0.4488" (11.40 mm). The manufacturer had decided to bring the cartridge OD over the bullet to OD spec by making the brass thicker. With a 0.452" sized cast bullet, this brass prevented full chambering in my SA 1911. I pulled the bullets and powder and scrapped the small quantity of odd brass, but a CFCD would have narrowed it enough to chamber by squeezing down the cast bullet. However, a cast bullet narrowed that far would have been loose in the bore and caused leading and poor accuracy, so I would rather discover and toss such rounds than shoot them. It has been asserted since the '50s that crimping pistol rounds as an separate operation from seating provides the mose accurate ammunition. YMMV, but it certainly stops fouling from lead rings shaved off the bullet during seating. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 27, 2019, 12:53 PM	#47
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Another note on the sizing ring die, I can feel when it sizes a case. One could save those that are sized when crimped and use them for blasting ammo but for IDPA type shooting they are just fine. For precision(bullseye)shooting, best to find a combination of bullet and case that doesn't bulge. My 200 SWC and the batch of GI brass I use don't bulge when loaded, for instance.