Ruger Vaquero?

[waymore]

Hey this is my first post here. I am looking into buying a Ruger Vaquero, I have always liked the cowboy style guns. This will be my first revolver and I am still debating on buying the .45 or .357. I am just looking for a fun gun to take to the range. does anybody own one of these and have any advice that might help me out? What are some of the perks of each? I know this is probably a personal preference issue, just interested in hearing from some people.

Thanks.

[Nastrowie!]

I have fired a friends in .45 colt, and I was surprised...and impressed! The trigger felt great, and I'm more and more into the .45c. I don't have the most experience with wheel guns, but have shot a few and I think this is the most memorable to date. I'm now conisdering getting the redhawk in .45c w/4" barrel...or maybe a blackhawk since they can be found fairly often, and cheap! Maybe I should just get a Vaquero...

[FlyFish]

I have three of them in .45 Colt that I use for Cowboy Action Shooting. They're great guns. If you're looking for "cowboy style" then you want a "cowboy" caliber, which the .357 ain't.

[Wleoff]

If you want a fun gun that's now reasonable, get one of the 50th Anniversary Blackhawks in .357. They're now available new for less than $400. The Blackhawk is like the Vaquero, but with adjustable sights. You can shoot .357 Mags or 38 Specials, ammo which is readily available.

Having said that, I've got a bunch of Vaqueros in 45 Colt, 44-40, 38-40 and .357. If you reload, 45 Colt is a fun cartridge to reload. You'll have to tune a reload to the Vaquero, since you can't adjust the sights. Still a Vaquero will last forever.

Oh yea, welcome aboard.

[ChiefMuzz]

The .45 may be a more "cowboy" caliber but you will be much more hard pressed to find .45 ammo than .357 ammo. If you like the gun but aren't particular on the caliber I would recommend the .357 just because it will be easier to find ammo for it.

[rodfac]

I've got a New Vaquero in 45 LC that I'm fond of. It shot 2" low and 2" left with factory full house R-P 250 gr loads out of box. I had to open the fixed sight notch to the right to correct the east west misalignment and also lower the front sight. Cold blue on both 'adjustments' worked well. You might have less home-gunsmithing to do if you go with the smaller .357 cartridge. Here's the low down on what was required with my particular .45 LC.:

The cylinder throats were almost .002" undersize, when compared to the groove dia. (.450" vs .452"). This resulted in mucho leading and groups that went over 3" at 25 yds. The "Cylindersmith" opened them up to .4525" uniformly and my groups now average just a little over 2" at 25 yds. His charge by the way was $39 with shipping and turn around was less than 2 weeks.) And the leading is a thing of the past with both wheel weight home cast slugs and commercial hard cast.

The trigger pull was up around 6 lbs and full of creep as it came from the factory. Lifting one of the trigger return springs off its seat under the grip panels cured that ... it's now around 3 lbs. I improved the creep to acceptable limits by pushing on the hammer as I dry fired the piece. I'd estimate that I dry fired in this manner 20-30 times then thoroughly cleaned the innards with Ed's Red (equal parts of ATF Dextron fluid, kerosene, turpentine, and acetone). It now sports a semi-two stage military trigger. (A little take up, then a crisp release...sort of like a good M-1903 Springfield).

I've currently got three of the New Model Blackhawk Rugers. (A Lipsey's Ruger .44 Spl, a 50th Anniversay .44 Magnum, and the aforementioned .45 LC) All are excellent shooters and I'd say that only reason the .45 LC doesn't equal the other two in accuracy is the hog wallow type of fixed sights. The two .44's are down around an inch and a half at 25 yds with loads that I've worked up.

HTH's Rodfac

[dev_null]

I had two, one being the birdshead, in .45. Nice shooting, though a tad heavy. Sold them after a couple of years. Now I have a Taurus and two Remington '58s (Uberti) with Taylor's conversions.

[89240]

I've shot a friend's .45 Colt Vaquero a couple of times, and it is a sweet, sweet gun. The trigger is amazing, the recoil is minimal, and it's accurate as all getout. I picked it up for the second time earlier this week, and with the first six shots I hit a 3" steel spinner at about 10 yards four times out of six. I think I could shoot 1" groups with it at that range with a little practice.

With the side gate loading style, it doesn't seem to be a very practical gun, but for fun it's hard to top.

Josh

[brian45auto]

i had also wanted a cowboy styled gun. so i ordered a new model vaquero.
looks good, feels good, but i've never shot it.
a few days before it came in, i picked a uberti saa.
it looks better, feels better and functions very similar to that of the original 1873's.
i couldn't get over the vaquero's loading. just flop the gate over and start stuffing.
i so wanted the half cock postion.....the uberti's delivered.
i picked two used uberti's up for what the single new ruger cost.

just say'n

[Wleoff]

It's according to what one is going to do with a SA. The original Colt SA wasn't designed to be shot thousands of times. The Colt SAs and SA clones use a leaf main spring. Ruger Vaqueros use a coil mainspring which lasts much longer.

I've got two Vaqueros in 45 Colt, which I've put over 20,000 rounds thru them shooting SASS since starting in the mid 90s. SASS #9662.

I like Colts. I've got several Colt SAs, a pair of Bounty Hunters and a pair of Ubertis which I've shot at times in SASS. Also used a pair of Schofields, which I sold. When I want to compete with no malfunctions, I use my Vaqueros. Nothing is going to hold up like a Vaquero.

Some people do compete well in SASS with Colts or clones. They like the originality or the style points or whatever. If you're going to plink at the range every once in a while, this level of durability doesn't matter.

The disclaimer. This is just my one opinion. There's people that have shot SASS longer than myself that won't agree with the above. And we haven't even got into "old" model verse "new" model Vaqueros. OMV vs NMV.

[Jim March]

I absolutely love my New Vaquero in 357. You'll find good info in these threads:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327975

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370651

[Old John]

I bought mine awhile ago. I wouldn't part with them.
I think they are heavier, & solid.
Good 6-guns.
But, yeah, they are .45 Colts and ammo is a lot more expensive......when you can find it.

[Pathfinder45]

......It was 1976 and I had just turned 21. I had studied the matter thoroughly and was resolved about the Blachawk .45 Colt. Just had to wait 'til I was of age. So I got the Blackhawk, a convertible 7.5 incher it was, made in the 200th year of American liberty was stamped on the tube. Perhaps a year later a friend noticed it and said he had an old .45 in pieces if I was interested. Well I'm always interested. So he brings me a true basket-case of parts. Turns out to be a 1902 vintage Colt .45 SA with 4 5/8" barrel and it's all there, rusty and pitted. He only wanted $25 for it, so what the heck. Took it to a gunsmith in Medford to see what he could do for it. $90 later I had the slickist handling and shootin' revolver I believe I've ever touched. Wish I still had it....... But if you could take those two revolvers and morph them into one it would be my current Vaquero. Pretty much the best of both worlds. I've had it a dozen years and it's a keeper. I've always reloaded and cast my own bullets. How else would I afford to shoot the thousands of rounds I continue to run through that .45?

[rclark]

Both calibers are good. But if you are looking for 'traditional' then the .45 Colt is the way to go. It is now my 'favorite'. Just something about shooting the big 'o 250 RNFP bullets! Of course it costs more to shoot the .45 than the .38, so if 'economy' is a concern then the .38 is the way to go. The smaller caliber will knock down the steel targets just as well as the .45 ... Just doesn't have the karma ... so to speak!

With the fixed sights you will have to find where the bullets are going and make the mental adjustment when you fire it. I don't mind. Really enjoy my Vaquero. Fun shooter

[Pathfinder45]

........ .45 Colt vs .357 magnum......They are way different cartridges! The .45 is so much more gun that it's in a completely different class. it's been written that the .45 Colt was the most powerful handgun cartridge until 1935 when the .357 took the stage..... But the truth is bigger than foot-pounds. a closer comparison would be 38-40 Winchester vs 357 if you load both with 180 grain bullets. Never the less, I see SOME advantages for the .357 over .45 Colt: #1, The ammo weighs about half as much. If you're back-packing you can carry twice as much ammo. #2, With higher velocity comes flatter trajectory. #3, Less cost per round. I think that's about it. Oh, yeah, it's louder, too! There's more...................

[Jim March]

Welll...in guns of this size and heft, there's a few companies making REAL 357 ammo that makes us remember why the 357 gained such a rep as a devastator in the first place. Buffalo Bore, Doubletap Ammo and Grizzly Cartridge (hardcast only).

Loaded to the gills, the 357 is one serious round.

[JD88]

I was looking at the Vaquero. Eventually I want to grab one just to shoot for fun. But tracking down .45 long colt and then having to fork over big bucks for them doesent sound fun to me. Not to mention I live in Mass and for some odd reason the New Vaquero in .45, not sure about the older Vaquero, is not Mass approved. Although its approved in .357, weird right? Typical POS Mass gun laws, what I picture is a lobbyist from Colt handing over a suitcase full of money to make sure the New Vaquero in .45 doesent get approved in Mass. Does anyone know the real reason?

[Jim March]

Not to mention I live in Mass and for some odd reason the New Vaquero in .45, not sure about the older Vaquero, is not Mass approved. Although its approved in .357, weird right? Typical POS Mass gun laws, what I picture is a lobbyist from Colt handing over a suitcase full of money to make sure the New Vaquero in .45 doesent get approved in Mass. Does anyone know the real reason?

It actually makes some sense, if you measure bullet effectiveness by raw horsepower (muzzle energy) - which of course isn't totally accurate.

Anyways. A NewVaq357 can drive about 800ft/lbs energy, same gun in 45LC is limited to about 550ft/lbs. But in the OldVaq, now you're talking over 1,000ft/lbs energy with 45LC+P.

BUT, how much actual killing power do you get with a 45-cal slug of 250gr packing 550ft/lbs energy, versus a 180gr .36cal slug packing 800? Assuming both are hardcasts. Much debate has gone into that question.

I have no hard answers.

[olyinaz]

I have a New Vaquero in .45 Colt as well as several other Colt 1873 replicas in .357. I like the build and solid construction of my polished stainless New Vaq the best. The .357s are much less expensive to shoot if you're not a reloader (.38 Special ammo is tame, fun to shoot, and often quite inexpensive).

I always wanted a .45 Colt despite having many .357s and .44s over the years. There's just something special about a .45 Colt! I'm very pleased that I now own one but mine is also a short barreled Montado model and it's quite a hand full that some may not enjoy (my wife does not like to shoot it).

Regards,
Oly

[Dr Raoul Duke]

I have no hard answers.
__________________
Jim March

Jesus Jim, I've never heard you so subdued.

If you want a Ruger fixed sight single action revolver in .45 Colt that will take Buffalo Bore and any other semi-sane loads that you can feed it, you want the Vaquero, not the New Vaquero. Yes, the New Vaquero will take it, but the question is; for how long? The Vaquero in .45 Colt is a thug, built on the .44 Magnum frame and able to take almost anything you might sanely want to throw at it; pretty much as long as you want to do it.

Side note: I had a friend who liked to load 26 gn of H110 behind a 300 gn JSP into .45 Colt cases (which I considered insane then, still is, and so are you if you try it) in one of the .45 Colt Blackhawks or New Vaqueros. I was shooting a Super Blackhawk next to him (a pedestrian 22.2 grains of 2400 under a 240 grain JSP), and he shot the first two with normal muzzle blast then the third went off like two sticks of Hercules or Dupont Dynamite. The top three chambers disappeared, the top strap folded upward, and we had to beat the barrel upward to get the base pin out. Ruger replaced the pistol: go Ruger Which really shows what schmucks the people at Ruger are.

I still say; if you want a .44 Magnum, buy a .44 Magnum. If you want a .454 Casull, call the folks at Freedom Arms, or buy a Ruger Super Redhawk in that caliber, or the .480 Ruger. Don't go down the heavily confused and poorly marked trail of making the .45 Colt into a .45 Maxiwhat. There ain't no where there.


Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever

[Daryl]

still say; if you want a .44 Magnum, buy a .44 Magnum. If you want a .454 Casull, call the folks at Freedom Arms, or buy a Ruger Super Redhawk in that caliber, or the .480 Ruger. Don't go down the heavily confused and poorly marked trail of making the .45 Colt into a .45 Maxiwhat. There ain't no where there.

If your friend had overloaded a .44 mag case to the same degree he overloaded the .45 Colt, he'd have blown up a .44 mag blackhawk, too. Imagine sticking a 290 grain bullet on top of your 22.2 grains of 2400. That's the equivalent of what your friend did.

Note-This is IF it was a blackhawk. A New Vaquero won't handle even the lesser loads listed below that I've used. They just aren't up to it, being smaller framed with thinner cylinder walls.

I've loaded 26 grains of H110 under a 250 grain cast, and shot it from either of my ORIGINAL SIZED .45 Colt Vaqueros without any problems. You have to decrease the powder some with the heavier bullets. With 300 grain bullets, I decrease the powder by about 3 grains.

Note-even these loads WILL blow up a New Vaquero. It's just a matter of whether it's the 1st shot, or which one following that. These loads are safe in MY guns. Everyone else should work up loads for theirself.

He overloaded the case by at least 2.5 grains of powder (even for a blackhawk, which is far stronger than the Nuevo Vaquero), IMO; plenty to cause what happened. BTW, your 22.2 grain load is overloaded by about 1.2 grains according to Alliant's website. While it's probably safe in your gun, I mention it for other's sake.

Any fool can blow up a gun, no matter the cartridge it's chambered for, if they don't know what they're doing, or are stupid enough to not care. Just as you're doing with your .44 mag, you can push things beyond industry standards sometimes, but you better darn well know what you're doing if you do. If you don't, the consequences can kill you. A grain or two of powder doesn't seem like much, but it can be a lot when working at top loads. Pressures generally don't spike evenly as the powder increases.

Daryl

[Jim March]

Yeah, I'll second what Daryl just said, and add that if you have a large-frame Ruger SA in 45LC (meaning, it's not a NewVaq45), you can shoot loads that equal the 44Mag yet run at less pressure and "feel" just a bit milder.

The larger case capacity lets you get the same work done at lower pressure. That's a good thing. Very careful loading can take you a smidge past the 44Mag - see also Buffalo Bore's catalog.

But if you try and go seriously PAST the 44Magnum, you're nuts . And that's what the k'boom described was all about.

Jesus Jim, I've never heard you so subdued.

Thing is, I really don't know for sure. I suspect a hardcast 180gr 357 moving at a good pace is a good hunting load. But I don't have personal experience with it yet. I intend to take exactly that load up against wild boar in Cali at some point, in areas where the piggies seldom top 250-300lbs.

But is that load more effective than a hardcast .45 250gr doing 1,000fps? I just don't know.

[Dr Raoul Duke]

If your friend had overloaded a .44 mag case to the same degree he overloaded the .45 Colt, he'd have blown up a .44 mag blackhawk, too. Imagine sticking a 290 grain bullet on top of your 22.2 grains of 2400. That's the equivalent of what your friend did.

Back when I was much younger, and MUCH more STUPID I actually played with loads in that range. I never blew up a Super Blackhawk but it wasn't for lack of trying. When you find yourself pulling the cylinder out and pounding the fired cases out with a piece of dowel and a mallet is God's way of telling you that you've entered the STUPID ZONE. I'm lucky that I didn't lose an eye or otherwise get maimed. No one should ever do as I have done; stay with the loading manuals and never exceed the maximum charges.

BTW, your 22.2 grain load is overloaded by about 1.2 grains according to Alliant's website. While it's probably safe in your gun, I mention it for other's sake.

I've been watching the maximum charges dial back in the loading manuals anywhere from 1.5 to 1.2 grains over the years. My oldest two manuals were the Sierra Bullets from 1971 and the Speer Number 10. The Sierra 1971 gave the maximum charge of 2400 under their 240 grain JHC was 23.3 grains, the 2003 Speer 5th edition recommends 21.3 grains. The Speer Number 10 gave the maximum charge of 2400 under their 240 grain jacketed bullets as the legendary 22.2 grains, while the Speer Number 14 is 21.0 grains. The third edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook of 1980 gave the max charge of 2400 as being 23.4 under the 245 grain #429421 hard lead bullet. I originally picked up the 22.2 grain of 2400 load from Elmer Keith when I was 16 and 2400 was still under the Hercules brand name. Some say the loads have been "lawyered" down over the years, to reduce the chance of liability suits. My opinion is that the pressure sensing equipment being used today is much better now than in years past. Heck, a shooter with a Oehler Model 43 Personal Ballistics Laboratory is better equipped to divine what is going on in his particular firearm than most of the ammunition manufacturers in the 1970s with their "copper crusher" test barrels. I'll continue shooting the 22.2 grain 2400 powder charge loads under 240 grain slugs in MY Ruger Super Blackhawk and Redhawk pistols and Marlin 1894 lever action rifles, because I think they are safe for ME, but I do not recommend it to others. As always, YMMV.

Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever

[Jim March]

Powder compositions have changed over time. "2400" of years back isn't the same as 2400 now. One reason for "manual drift" that has nothing to do with lawyers.

[Dr Raoul Duke]

Powder compositions have changed over time. "2400" of years back isn't the same as 2400 now. One reason for "manual drift" that has nothing to do with lawyers.

I did not agree with the lawyer concept, I just mentioned that some think so. As far as powder composition changing there may be some merit in that, but I'll point out that 22.2 grains of 2400 under a 240 grain JSP or JHP, in WW cases and WW LP primers, achieves exactly the same velocity over a chronograph today as it did out of my old "three screw" Ruger Super Blackhawk, 40 years ago. And, it still shoots to the same point of aim.

BTW, I don't shoot that load in my S&W Model 29s. They subsist on 20 grains of 2400 under the same bullet, and my '61 4 screw Model 29 that my Grandfather gave me, hardly ever gets out of the safe, and when it does I never shoot anything heavier than 17 grains of 2400 under a 240 grain bullet. The old girl deserves a bit of rest after all these years.

Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever