Ten Years In The Making!

Savvy_Jack · August 19, 2019, 07:26 AM

Yesterday I finally accomplished another goal with the 44-40 cartridge.

Replicating Doc Pardee's 110 yard 4" Groups

Background

More than likely you have already seen John Kort's replication from his "My Black Powder Journey". I have been trying to accomplish the same thing for ten years but using modern smokeless powders. On 8-17-2019, I finally achieved that goal. Like John, in order to help accomplish this task I had to revert back to the original type Winchester design bullet. The Lyman 42798 or 427098 is basically a copy of Winchester's improved bullet design. They can be seen in the Bullets/Molds subtitles on the nav bar on the main page of this web sight: https://curtisshawk21.wixsite.com/44centerfire

A few weeks ago I decided to modify the 427098 to see if I could get tighter groups with these modern powders, Reloder 7 to be exact. I wanted a heavier bullet so I decided to see if I could get at least 117gr. I accomplished that and more when I designed the 43-214A. I used John's already modified 427098, the 43-215C as my platform. I increased the size of the ogive area, reverted back to the two lube grooves and removed the crimp groove option. I send the mod request to Tom over at Accurate Molds and he came up with this: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=43-214A-D.png Using a basic molten mix, I achieved 217gr. I sent my mold to Mark Whyte and he was able to drop a 220gr cast bullet from his mix.

It is the 220gr 43-214A that I used to replicated the Groups that Doc achieved back in 1875....but I also used a scope. I did this to prove the rifle and the cartridge rather than my lack of shooting skills.

Groups using my cast bullets did fine but a few shots were outside the desired 4" circle. Using Mark's castings, I managed to put 30 consecutive shots inside the 4" circle at 100 yards.

The Loads

I loaded up 50 rounds using 25.8gr of Reloder 7. I would have prefered 25.5 but my Lee autodisk (used on an RCBS Green Machine) drops 25.8 from the double disk combination. In my pressure testings I used 26gr with the 217gr 43-215C. This design produced 10,485psi @ 1,384fps from a 20" MGM, 1 1/4" diameter barrel I used with the Pressuretrace system. This was also accomplished at 35 degrees Fahrenheit. This same load at 95 degrees could be 2,000 to 3,000psi higher, especially from small bores and large diameter bullets. Needless to say, I feel completely comfortable with 13,500psi loads in my Uberti Winchester 73'. SAAMI max loads are documented as being 11,000psi.

The Targets

Target # -1 would be used to shoot rounds 1-10 for the first scope adjustment. Target # -2 was used for shots 11-20, first shots after first scope adjustment. I could have continued but I only wanted 30 shots on paper and I wanted them as close to the bullseye as I could get them. Not pressing my luck, I decided to use that as a final scope adjustment. Target # -3 was used for shots 21-50

Target 8-17-19-1 - No Photo
Target # -1 would be used to shoot rounds 1-10 for the first scope adjustment.

Target 8-17-19-2

Target # -2 was used for shots 11-20

Target 8-17-19-3 (first ten shots)

Shots 21-30

Target 8-17-19-3 (second ten shots)

shots 31-40

Target 8-17-19-3 (third ten shots)

Shots 41-50

Savvy_Jack · August 19, 2019, 07:27 AM

Documenting the targets

This task can always get confusing, trying to keep things in some sort of an order when several things are happening all at once.

Using the above progressive photos, I did the best I could labeling each ten shot group. I also placed the first ten shot group as black dots in their corrected position from scope adjustment. Not only were all 40 shots inside a 4" circle, the widest shots measure 3 3/8" and were both from the last group!

Notice the measuring technique used. "String measuring from center of target to center of each shot, 32 3/4". I used this same technique on my target and came up with 27 1/4".

Uberti Winchester 73" w/Malcom scope

**Unclenick** · August 19, 2019, 08:32 AM

Jack,

Only one of your photos showed. You are trying to display by hotlinking to photos hosted at Marlinowners.com. Hotlinking from a non-image hosting site is a violation of this board's rules as it makes the host pay for the bandwidth needed for people to view them here (the download to the viewer's browser). You need to use an image hosting site like Imgur.com or another, or you need to click on the Go Advanced button below and then scroll down and click on Manage Attachments. You can load images there for hosting and displaying on this board. Once uploaded, you can right-click on the link in the Manage Attachments menu or on the thumbnail that appears in your post and from the flyout menu select to Copy Link Location and paste that between the image tags that I left in your posts.

Savvy_Jack · August 19, 2019, 10:15 AM

Ahhhh, let me see what I can do. I stopped using photobucket, they got nutso!

I also finally found the "manage photos option", I'll try that next time.

August 19, 2019, 07:26 AM	#1
Savvy_Jack Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2018 Posts: 220	Ten Years In The Making! Yesterday I finally accomplished another goal with the 44-40 cartridge. Replicating Doc Pardee's 110 yard 4" Groups Background More than likely you have already seen John Kort's replication from his "My Black Powder Journey". I have been trying to accomplish the same thing for ten years but using modern smokeless powders. On 8-17-2019, I finally achieved that goal. Like John, in order to help accomplish this task I had to revert back to the original type Winchester design bullet. The Lyman 42798 or 427098 is basically a copy of Winchester's improved bullet design. They can be seen in the Bullets/Molds subtitles on the nav bar on the main page of this web sight: https://curtisshawk21.wixsite.com/44centerfire A few weeks ago I decided to modify the 427098 to see if I could get tighter groups with these modern powders, Reloder 7 to be exact. I wanted a heavier bullet so I decided to see if I could get at least 117gr. I accomplished that and more when I designed the 43-214A. I used John's already modified 427098, the 43-215C as my platform. I increased the size of the ogive area, reverted back to the two lube grooves and removed the crimp groove option. I send the mod request to Tom over at Accurate Molds and he came up with this: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=43-214A-D.png Using a basic molten mix, I achieved 217gr. I sent my mold to Mark Whyte and he was able to drop a 220gr cast bullet from his mix. It is the 220gr 43-214A that I used to replicated the Groups that Doc achieved back in 1875....but I also used a scope. I did this to prove the rifle and the cartridge rather than my lack of shooting skills. Groups using my cast bullets did fine but a few shots were outside the desired 4" circle. Using Mark's castings, I managed to put 30 consecutive shots inside the 4" circle at 100 yards. The Loads I loaded up 50 rounds using 25.8gr of Reloder 7. I would have prefered 25.5 but my Lee autodisk (used on an RCBS Green Machine) drops 25.8 from the double disk combination. In my pressure testings I used 26gr with the 217gr 43-215C. This design produced 10,485psi @ 1,384fps from a 20" MGM, 1 1/4" diameter barrel I used with the Pressuretrace system. This was also accomplished at 35 degrees Fahrenheit. This same load at 95 degrees could be 2,000 to 3,000psi higher, especially from small bores and large diameter bullets. Needless to say, I feel completely comfortable with 13,500psi loads in my Uberti Winchester 73'. SAAMI max loads are documented as being 11,000psi. The Targets Target # -1 would be used to shoot rounds 1-10 for the first scope adjustment. Target # -2 was used for shots 11-20, first shots after first scope adjustment. I could have continued but I only wanted 30 shots on paper and I wanted them as close to the bullseye as I could get them. Not pressing my luck, I decided to use that as a final scope adjustment. Target # -3 was used for shots 21-50 Target 8-17-19-1 - No Photo Target # -1 would be used to shoot rounds 1-10 for the first scope adjustment. Target 8-17-19-2 Target # -2 was used for shots 11-20 Target 8-17-19-3 (first ten shots) Shots 21-30 Target 8-17-19-3 (second ten shots) shots 31-40 Target 8-17-19-3 (third ten shots) Shots 41-50 Last edited by Savvy_Jack; August 19, 2019 at 11:16 AM.

August 19, 2019, 07:27 AM	#2
Savvy_Jack Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2018 Posts: 220	Documenting the targets This task can always get confusing, trying to keep things in some sort of an order when several things are happening all at once. Using the above progressive photos, I did the best I could labeling each ten shot group. I also placed the first ten shot group as black dots in their corrected position from scope adjustment. Not only were all 40 shots inside a 4" circle, the widest shots measure 3 3/8" and were both from the last group! Notice the measuring technique used. "String measuring from center of target to center of each shot, 32 3/4". I used this same technique on my target and came up with 27 1/4". Uberti Winchester 73" w/Malcom scope Last edited by Savvy_Jack; August 19, 2019 at 11:28 AM.

August 19, 2019, 08:32 AM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Jack, Only one of your photos showed. You are trying to display by hotlinking to photos hosted at Marlinowners.com. Hotlinking from a non-image hosting site is a violation of this board's rules as it makes the host pay for the bandwidth needed for people to view them here (the download to the viewer's browser). You need to use an image hosting site like Imgur.com or another, or you need to click on the Go Advanced button below and then scroll down and click on Manage Attachments. You can load images there for hosting and displaying on this board. Once uploaded, you can right-click on the link in the Manage Attachments menu or on the thumbnail that appears in your post and from the flyout menu select to Copy Link Location and paste that between the image tags that I left in your posts. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

August 19, 2019, 10:15 AM	#4
Savvy_Jack Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2018 Posts: 220	Ahhhh, let me see what I can do. I stopped using photobucket, they got nutso! I also finally found the "manage photos option", I'll try that next time. Last edited by Savvy_Jack; August 19, 2019 at 11:21 AM.