looking for press or kit advice

[ed308]

In my opinion, anyone telling you to get anything other than a single stage press to start out with is telling you to run before you have learned to walk.

There is a lot of empirical knowledge to be gained in order to become a proficient reloader. There is also a whole host of sub-processes that have to be mastered to reload safely. Progressive (and to a lesser extent turret) presses remove you from those experiences by at least one degree, sometimes two and that's greatly increases your chances of becoming a reloader who cannot recognize or diagnose his own problems.

You noted that you asked the same question on TheHighRoad, well go back there today and look at the post of the guy who had numerous hangfires and failures to fire and can't work out why. That could be you if you try to run before you learn how to walk.

It's not rocket science, it's reloading. Starting out on a progressive press can be easy as long as you use the press as single stage press and break down the steps. I learned on a Dillon 650. It can be done and it's not all that difficult.

I encourage people to buy want they want and can afford. And if you're good at figuring out mechanical problems, don't let a progressive scare you away. But not sure it matters in this case since not the OP's first rodeo. He has some reloading experience already and has acquire some knowledge about reloading presses.

A Dillon press would be my choice. I like the quality of Dillon and I don't have a lot of time for pulling the handle on a press.

[skinnedknuckles]

I won't hijack this thread with a lengthy answer, but I spent most of my career in aerospace parts manufacture.

And I will also note that the Lee Classic Turret Press makes an excellent single stage press with the auto index rod removed.

[condor bravo]

skinned:
I'm not doubting your comment but I think the main turnoff to Lee equipment is that they don't look sturdy, like they were assembled with nuts and bolts and erector set pieces. Although I do have about a dozen Lee dies and, other than the aluminum lock nuts, have no objections to the dies. Lee is a great inventor for inexpensive tools but they lack good eye appeal, not as streamlined as would be desired.

[LilPewPew]

All depends on your budget and the time you're willing to spend. For low budget/high time. I recommend single stage. For high budget/low time. I suggest progressive. I would go with Lee bc I still use my grandpas Lee press that's been in use since like the 70s or so.

[kmw1954]

Well you all can sit here and argue how crappy the Lee Presses are and which press is the best or last the longest and has the prettiest color. Then you can all make suggestions for a larger, stronger press just in case that labnoti at some point in the future decides to move into rifle calibers and starts making wildcat rounds or shooting 1000 rounds a week.

I really do not care what press you are using or how much Lee presses disgusts you, that is for you to decide for yourself I don't have a bias or derangement syndrome I just enjoy reloading.

So on that note I have 500 Berry's 124gr Hollow Base Flat Point and another 500 115gr RN Xtreme to load on my worthless, useless Lee Pro1000 press. While I am at it I can hope I only have 1 primer fault because I got carried away and didn't pay attention to the fact I ran out like the last batch I ran..

[condor bravo]

As long as one is satisfied with his equipment and it works well, you can't ask for much more. I'm sure that the Lee 1000 fills that bill. If I were to see one in operation I might want one also.

[kmw1954]

Condor I agree, what works well for me might not for anyone else.

I also do not try to convince anyone that the Lee is the best press out there, far from it. If one looks at my 1st post here and the recommendation I made I support that the Lee Turret press is the best choice for someone loading pistols in the volumes the OP is looking to do. I also state that because he begins by declaring that he has reloaded before so this is not new to him. He may need to become reacquainted but this isn't his 1st time. He also points out that he has NO INTEREST in reloading rifles so why is everyone bringing it up? What nobody believes him?

Anyways again I do not try to pass off the Pro1000 as a press everyone should have or use. Many cannot figure it out and make it work. I always joke that mine must be broken or that I'm doing something wrong because the one I have just seems to work and work just as it was meant to. I would not suggest it to anyone that has no mechanical ability or refuses to follow recommended suggestions as to what makes it work. For a progressive style press it really is very simplistic.

Now if you were close enough I would gladly invite you over to show you how I make it work. And enjoy doing it!

[Maynard Shooter]

I started out with reloading for my 50 caliber Maynard that was done by hand. Then I went to 357MAG with a Lyman JR turret press and a Lyman 55 powder measure mounted on it. Next came the Lyman All American Turret with the same 55 powder measure. Then I ventured into a progressive press by Lee for 9mm. I had one round not get powder that soared me on progressive. By this time I was loading 357, 38special, 38super, 9mm in hand guns Also loading 30-06, 308, 35rem in rifle calibers. from here I went to a T7 redding and setup my 55 powder measure on one turret with 3 rifle dies and I bought redding pistol measure put that on a separate turret for pistol loads. I don't load many but this leaves my press set to load what I need to without the setup just need to check before loading. For used brass I have a rock chucker that gets the depriming and sizing task. Recently I've ventured into 30 Luger reloading which is fun. All this in a little over ten years. My conviction was I want to be able to reload for everything I own.
If I were to start over I probably would start with the Redding T7 but hind sight is 20-20. The question I feel you need to answer is this a hobby that will last or a fad?

[locknloader]

If you shoot with any frequency, get a progressive. Use 1 die at a time until you fully understand the function of that die, then start adding more into the mix. I feel that is the best route for a beginner who knows they will stick with the hobby.

IMO if you start out with a single arm press, you will want to upgrade very soon. Then when you have a progressive you will want to start adding things like a bullet feeder and case feeder to make it even more automated. You don't HAVE to use every station on the progressive, take it slow, learn and fully understand what you are doing then ramp up your process and take advantage of the progressive feature.

Something to consider...

[GTOne]

It is pretty hard to argue against the LCT as the best thing to come down the pike in the last decade, or whenever it came out.
I am of the opinion that rock chuckers should be left back in 1972 where they came from, a lot of innovation has happened since then. None from RCBS
If you drive a car but don't change a tire or oil, or anything more involved than that you should stay away from anything more complicated than the LCT, however.

But if you are somewhat mechanically inclined, and can thread a sewing machine, you can run a 650/LnL AP no problem. I would recommend them over a manual indexing turret like a 550 any day.

Just keep in mind they aren't very handy for working up loads and running small batches of different calibers often.
That is when you team it up with a LCT for a winning combo.

[condor bravo]

Threads of this type are always interesting and this one should provide enough pros and cons to assist with an informative decision. For handguns only, I'll put in one more plug for a progressive of choice. Enough mechanical dexterity is needed to recognize problems as they start to develop later on. Once recognized they are usually easy to repair (or call the vendor).

But to get started, single stage for a while as lnl refers to above. This means to initially get all the die stations set up individually, including the powder station, and now with all stations adjusted properly, run a single case through indiviidually to completion, and then another, etc. Continue that way until comfortable and any final adjustments made and then progress to progressive mode.

I'm inclined towards the Dillon 550 or 650. The 550 has four die stations with manual advance between ststions, while the 650 has five stations and automatic advance. There's always some commentary as to which model might be the most error prone during operation. I hope to end that discussion by simply saying it's six of one and half dozen of the other. Do not let that be a determining factor.

Take a look at the Lee 1000. It is auto advance but I think a poster said that auto can be disabled if desired.

[kmw1954]

Being retired and on a fixed income I was pretty much pushed to look used and truly believe that is a viable way to go for anyone looking to start. I just happened to come upon a nice used Lee press and have no problems with it. At the same time I was looking to buy if I would have come upon a nice used Dillon SDB for the right price I would be just as happy using that.

My advice to everyone looking at buying their 1st press is to keep an open mind, look at ALL the presses, not just one brand because of internet popularity. Read the forums, read the reviews at the retailers, watch the videos for all of them. There is enough information out there to make an informed decision on what best suites your needs and style w/o all the personal opinions and biases.

I find most people coming to the forums are smart enough that they don't need me telling them what to buy. Like here I will make suggestions yet I will not be offended if my suggestions are ignored over something else. I have no skin in your game.

[T. O'Heir]

Lee kit is entry level stuff. S'ok, but their warrantee isn't as good as either RCB or Dillon. You'd be better buying an RCBS Beginner's Kit just for the warrantee. Comes with everything you need less dies and shell holder. A single stage press is dandy for 150 or so rounds per week. Been using one for 40 years myself. Speed comes with technique.
"...won't need to trim the cases..." Probably never have to trim .38's at all. Especially using target loads. 2.5 to 2.8 of Bullseye with a cast or swaged 148 grain WC.
"...spitting spent primers all over the floor..." Fixed with a vacuum cleaner on carpet. A corn broom on tiles. You could try yelling, "Honey!". Just remember I don't live there. snicker.

[GWS]

Your post indicated that you used to reload.

So the well-meaning fellas who don't want you to move to a progressive yet, just didn't read your post more than a glance. (wise advice for newbies though)

I did notice that you sold your reloading stuff 20 years ago. That may or may not mean you are over the ridge and going down the back side like me.......hope not!

Why this tack? Just that the one thing I bought a progressive for was wear and tear......not on the equipment, on me! A single or a turret is more exercise on my shoulder, arms, and hands than I want. Did that for 40 years. And the result is worn out. Recuping at the moment from carpal tunnel release surgery....for example. Current keyboarding is hurting...but necessary physical therapy!

All those strokes of the press gets older and older the more you get older and older.....

From my point of view a progressive is just plain wise......and you know what? You may find yourself shooting twice what you indicated, just because its so easy (and fun) to pump out 500 rounds in the same number of strokes as you used to crank out 100 rounds......period. Just pick a color....any will work. My color is green, but that just ain't that important.

I've just ordered an upgrade.....just because I'm curious what 7 stations can do......and they've finally worked out the "new press" bugs, made it more affordable, and I need a new project to play with while I recuperate. (wife spoils me...I admit it, however her Bernina toys make mine look cheap)

[Mike Irwin]

I cannot recommend the Lee Classic Cast Turret press highly enough.

I'm not a particularly high volume reloader any more, so it suits my needs exceptionally well.

I also have a Lyman T-Mag turret. It does a good job, as well.

[Mike Irwin]

"Lee equipment may work short term...but I will say they are not a durable long term option."

Oh really?

Lee .38/.357 dies. Purchased in 1992. To date, I've loaded over 20,000 rounds through them. No issues.

Lee Hand Prime. You know, the infamous pot metal piece of crap? Purchased new in 1981.

To date, I suspect that I've primed close to 35,000 cases -- rifle and handgun -- on that little device. What most of the howler monkeys of doom who complain that they've broken 40,000 of them don't realize is that a little lubrication on the linkage is a good thing.

Lee Pro Auto Disk. Purchased in 1992. To date, I've thrown between 20,000 - 30,000 rifle and pistol loads through it, with ZERO issues other than leakage using AA powders (very fine grained).

My Pro Auto Disk is as accurate as my RCBS Uniflow, but for less than half the price.

My Pro Auto Disk is as accurate as my Belding & Mull, but for about one quarter the price.

Lee Classic Cast Turret. This is my new piece of kit. I've only reloaded about 5,000 rounds on it so far. It's barely broken in, and I suspect that it will, in fact, never truly be broken in. It is a superb press. The only pity of it is that Lee didn't come out with it many years ago.

I think had they done so their reputation (somewhat rightfully gained with their earlier aluminum presses) would be better. At least with those who are able to understand that lower price doesn't necessarily equal lower quality.

I will say that there is one piece of Lee equipment that I cannot scourge enough... the Lee LoadAll.

I purchased it as a Christmas gift for my father in 1985.

Together he and I loaded close to 15,000 12 gauge loads on it.

What made me realize that it was a cheap piece of complete crap is that it could not survive a solo trip down a set of very steep concrete stairs onto the concrete basement floor. FOR SHAME, LEE!


I started reloading in 1977. Since then I've reloaded over 100,000 metallic rounds and probably close to 20,000 shotshells.

The vast majority of that reloading has been done with Lee dies, on Lee presses, with Lee power handling tools, and assorted other Lee tools.

Many of my friends also use Lee products, and have gotten excellent hard service out of them.

[kmw1954]

I just posted this to another forum in a discussion on the new Lee Breech Lock Pro press. It may also be pertinent here as well.

So just where is this press supposed to fall in line with the other Lee presses? Below the Loadmaster and above the Pro1000? Between the Classic Cast Turret and the Pro1000?

Review Lineup, per Titan Website with Titans prices;

Breech Lock Reloader C press, $34.99
Breech Lock Challenger O press, $66.99
Classic Cast or Classic Cast Breech, $106.99
New 4 hole Value Turret, $83.89
Classic Cast Turret, $97.49
New Breech Lock Pro, $124.49 + cost of a shell plate
New design Pro1000, $174.49
Complete Loadmaster, Pistols, $247.49

Did not include either of the 2 hand held presses or the shot shell press. But wow that is 9 presses from simple single stage to the complete progressive press. Ranging from a mere $35.00 up to a whopping $250.00

Then add in all the other vendors with their lineups and there is no reason anyone that wants to reload shouldn't be able to find something that fits their style or budget. Also with all these choices in the market there is no reason one has to follow the crowd because Joe Blow from the such and such forum says so.

Earlier I commented that if Lee would offer just the new Pro1000 press as an upgrade I would do it. As a matter of fact there was a bare press just on ebay the other day that was missing the handle. I was watching that auction and then forgot. When I remembered the auction had been over for 1/2 hour. It closed at a price that had I remembered sooner I would have placed a bid.

I'll reiterate, it makes no difference what equipment anyone else is using, I use what I have and am happy with it. None of you have to like or approve of the equipment I use because you are not here using it!

Also listening to the constant whining about Lee Precision get old. Everyone on every forum has all heard it before, every example, every gripe and complaint. There is nothing new.

People want to pipe up and state the stuff is cheap. Well just look above and by golly, yes it is and again we all know that. So that being the case, if you don't like it or think it's crap then by all means don't buy it or use it. Though someone is still buying and using this stuff because their business is doing quite well so evidentially somebody completely disagree with you.

Sorry I'm going back to my press now to finish all the 9mm I have sitting there waiting.

[BWM]

I have a LEE that I have loaded around 5000 a year or more for at 30 years and I jest loaded 200 rounds of 223 Thursday day and 300 of hand gun rounds the day before ! So that goes to show that they will last a VERY long time if you take care of it I load from a 32 SWL to 460 and 454 col and a Dan Wesson 357 from 223 up to 30.06 so that goes to show that LEE will stand up to some hard work and a lot of it. GOOD OLD 3 HOLE TURRET 77 years young OOO I have never had any thing go bad on this loader.Who needs a warranty.

[J.G. Terry]

Hey: What's all this primer dumping stuff on a RC press. The presses come with this little green tray with loop that attaches to the press. Your problem is that you may have put this apparatus on the press upside down. Check your instructions for correct installation. I have used an RC since sometime in the 1970's and never had a problem with that press period.

[Marco Califo]

To learn the basic, at low initial investment, I recommend the Lee hand press.
I started with I Lyman Turret. It worked. But looking back, I would have been better off starting with the Lee hand press. Some people hate Lee (often with no basis to have an informed opinion). Lee makes some innovative and inexpensive products can be used to load quality ammunition, and the Lee Universal Decapper die, collett neck sizing die, and factory crimp die are some of their better products. They make some plastic junk, too. A hand press, a Lee Perfect Powder Measure (plastic, but it does work), and a set of dies and you are in business, possibly for under $100. You will want a hand primer too.
I think it is ridiculous to recommend progressive presses to beginners. They are complicated machines, and work their way only. Even with years of experience, I prefer using simpler tools to prime in batches, charge powder and seat bullets as distinct steps. A progressive will allow you to churn out thousands of the same thing, if that is what you want, and how you want to do it. If you are looking to load a few hundred pistol and rifle rounds here and there, a hand press will do fine, and you can pack it to the range too. I have the Lyman turret press behind me and a new Lee hand press on the table (misplaced mine packing). The Lee hand press gets the most use by far.

[3Crows]

The Lee Classic Cast made from USA cast iron (recycled railroad rails) could last several lifetimes. The Classic Cast Turret also is made from USA cast iron, both actually here in the USA. The Lee dies are fine. Both the single stage Classic Cast and the Classic Cast Turret presses are extremely heavy duty, equal to any current offerings and have the largest ram in the industry.

Do not confuse the Lee cast aluminum products with their cast iron products, the former is about value, the later is both value and durability. They are as strong as any out there.

3C

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by labnoti

I'm new to forums but made a similar post at The High Road. I'm looking for advice about reloading. I formerly hand loaded rifle and shotshell 20-something years ago, but have been out of it for that long. I used a single-stage RCBS RCII press for rifle, and a Hornady progressive press for shotshell. I had a lot of equipment, but I sold it all many years ago.

I do have:
. a small vibratory tumbler
. a high quality 0.01g digital scale and high precision calibration weight
. Brown and Sharp calipers

Now I want to load handgun cartridges. I have some questions but a few answers first:

* I'll start with .38 special/.357 magnum. Nothing else for a couple years.
* I want to make light loads for training with a J frame.
* I want to reload my training cartridges to save expense.
* I will use lead bullets but will not cast my own.
* I will reload enough to shoot about 150 cartridges per week. I can't see it going over 300 per week even in the future and it's more likely to stay 150 or less.

My source for brass will be spent factory loads that I will have shot. I'll remove primers, and clean the brass. I won't need to trim the cases for now since they're rimmed and they'll be .38's in a longer .357 magnum chamber.

Now my questions:

Single stage, turret or progressive?
RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Dillon?
should I de-prime and/or prime with a hand tool or on a press?

The advice I've heard so far is for a Lee Classic Turret. I'd get their dies and drum powder measure. That seems like a reasonable solution. Am I better off spending a little more?

What have I not thought of to ask?

O/P as you see these "which press" threads can turn out to be more argumentative than helpful. I found out years ago when I was in your same crossroads that these comments many times added more confusion. I'm not going to make suggestions about what press to buy but I can share my reloading evolvement from new reloader with nothing for equipment, to experienced reloader with both a single stage and a progressive setup. My FIRST step was to buy the Lyman's 49'th reloading manual and read it from cover to cover. This prior to buying anything gave me a good fundamental baseline of the processes. I also spent a month watching vids on not only how to load ammo on different configurations of presses but equally important how to set up each configuration. In the end I opted to buy a Rock Chucker master single stage kit. My primary intent was match rifle, and second being small lots of handgun. After about 3 years of single stage I needed to add some volume to my handgun as my wife took a liking to handgun. I then opted to purchase the simplistic LEE Classic Turret. This was a great "next step" to cut some time off of the handgun loading process. I struggled a bit getting the LEE to perform perfect but it's all a learning curve. Made a lot of minor mistakes, but learned, corrected and made some great ammo. Problem for me is I ended up giving myself tendinitis in my right elbow from too much reloading. Now was time to move up to the big league of Dillon 650 progressive. Make no mistake the Dillon is an outstanding press for volume, BUT the Dillon is a very complicated system and has a deep learning curve. I ended up selling my LEE Classic Turret, and put the money towards the Dillon. Still have the RCBC RC. If I were to do it all over again I would do it exactly the same. I learned progressively. The ideal versatility IMO is both a single stage and a progressive.

[Grey_Lion]

I've put out thousands of rounds on my Lee classic turret. I've got a RCBS rockchucker that I use for swagging hollow points and a cheap Lee single stage for creasing those hollow points before I form their points. I much prefer the primer catcher on the Lee classic turret over the RCBS scheme. 4 years in and having tried other gear, I'm happy with what I've invested in.

[GWS]

I think the O.P. posted and then ditched this thread 15 days ago, and we're all talking to ourselves!

Maybe he died of pneumonia like Gunny did....or simply trolling.

[LBussy]

I have experience with the Lee Turret so that's the information I will give. I notice such a rule does not apply to some other folks.

I have had my Turret Press since I started reloading. I started roughly when I joined here so you can see it's been a minute. I don't know how many rounds I have churned out but it's been more than a couple. The press is not close to wearing out by any stretch of the imagination. I've loaded mostly .45 ACP but also do .38/.357, .380, and .223. It keeps pretty consistent measurements, and does all that I ask of it.

Benefits: Price is definitely one. The entry point is a lot lower than a lot of the other ones being thrown around here. I sincerely laughed out loud at the very first recommendation for a Dillon Progressive in this thread. At 150 rounds a week and one caliber this is the very definition of overkill. I suppose if the OP has a lot of money to spend, and or can only devote 15 minutes a week to reloading that might be a good recommendation but I'm on the thriftier side. The turret press is also very good at running single stage. You have your four dies all set up and ready to go so there's less fiddling. Once you batch one operation, you just give the turret a twist and go on to the next. Caliber changes are also exceedingly inexpensive. I think a new plate is $10 or so, and then you buy the dies. That's as cheap and as simple as it gets (without considering a single stage.)

There are downsides to the Turret. Primer handling is one. It makes a mess and they just drop down in the base making for a more difficult cleanup. I have read that the "Classic Turret" does a better job of this but I don't have one. Another downside is if you are not paying attention you can chew up those little ratchet mechanism pieces. They are exceedingly cheap and easy to replace, but it's a small PIA.

All that being said I am considering purchasing a Dillon Progressive. I shoot roughly 500 a week (sometimes a little more if I'm feeling froggy) and the progressive is one way I can make that a little easier and more cost (time) effective. I've had the money saved and set aside for the full 650 setup with case feeder for a while now but have not pulled the trigger on it. Sure I'll probably like it, but will I like it that much more? I have not yet decided.

To the OP again: If you are still here and we have not run you off .... lots of choices here and even if you only read this thread you will have learned that some people have opinions about things which they have no experience. You can weed those out yourself.

One last thing. You said you have "a high quality 0.01 g digital scale and high precision calibration weight." If you instead meant 0.01 gn (grain) then you are more than good to go. If not you will want to invest in a scale capable of resolution of at least 0.1 gn. Your current scale has a resolution of 0.1543236 gn (0.2 gn basically) which is not going to be accurate enough IMHO.