Hi Power 40 S&W

[Stats Shooter]

Since getting into 1911's recently, I have also been intrigued by the Browning Hi Power. I know very little about them other than what I have read and seen on videos......never fired or even handled one. I am thinking about buying one and trying it out to see if I like it.

I was interested in the 40 s&w version since I shoot 40 a good bit and have a 5 gallon bucket full of ammo I have made on my XL 650. But it was originally mad in 9mn as everyone knows so I am wondering if I should just get the 9 since that's the historical cartridge, or if folks think the 9 functions better as that's what it was designed around.

The hi power sure is a pretty gun, and it would be my only 9mm, (The wife has a G19 but that doesn't count as I don't shoot it).

Another question, Is the trigger really as bad as some folks claim with the magazine disconnect?

[Mosin44az]

The 9 mm is the classic choice but I remember FN put a ton of effort into making sure the .40 worked with every type of ammo. One of their engineers said if customers experienced malfunctioning, “ they don’t blame the ammo, they blame the gun.”

FN, a very serious company, worked to make sure this wouldn’t happen. I know the .40 slide is heavier and has an extra recoil lug, to deal with the more powerful .40 round.

I have never been bothered by the Hi Power trigger.

[In The Ten Ring]

Trigger with mag disconnect varies.....but generally good with it.

I have a .40 HP I have never fired.

[Remow2112]

I have one. Nice gun, mine came with the mag safety removed. The trigger is great, but a long take up to the sear. I have been considering selling it to fund an adventure into 6.5 CM. If you are interested let me know.


Dan...

[In The Ten Ring]

Dang, if I wasn't buying (back) a Model 29 tomorrow I'd get in line behind Stats on this one.

I love 2 stage triggers, so a long take up is fine with me, as long as it's like a rifle's 2 stage trigger.

[muzzleblast...]

Buy it. I have two. Browning modified the BHP specifically to handle the .40. They are sweet shooting .40s. As for BHP triggers, removal of the mag disconnect does improve the trigger pull.

[WVsig]

I am a big fan of the BHP in 9mm but I am not a fan of the 40. FN did beef up the BHP to accommodate the 40 S&W but for me it just doesn't work. The gun beats the crap out of my hand. It is something about the bore axis etc that does not work for me. The BHP in 40 was FNs last ditch effort to get the BHP into the hands of LEO in the US. It failed miserably mainly because US LEOs would not buy a SAO gun. They also sold it with the SFS which was a solution looking for a problem. Clearly other people feel differently.

The BHP trigger is an odd design and the magazine disconnect makes it worse. I almost always remove it unless it is an older collectible stock piece. Even if I do remove it I keep it. I have a bag of them in the parts bin. Most people "feel" that removing the magazine disconnect makes the trigger lighter but most of the time if you put in on a gauge you will see it only lowers it by a pound if that but it does make it smoother so it feels lighter.

BHP is a classic but I only recommend it in 9mm, As God intended it.

[MandolinMan]

Be sure to check out http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/index.html for a wealth of info on the Browning Hi Power.

[muzzleblast...]

Here is the late Stephen Camp's perspective on the .40 BHP.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/HiPowers9mmvs40.htm

My favorite .40 is the S&W 4006 TSW. But, my favorite BHP is the .40 version.

[RickB]

The trigger isn't bad because of the mag disconnect, it's bad because of the monkey-motion design that translates rearward motion into upward motion that involves the slide-mounted trigger bar, which acts in a teeter-totter manner to trip the frame-mounted sear.

The only issue I have with the mag disconnect is that it prevents the mag from cleanly ejecting from the frame.

Some people find the HP's grip to be the most comfortable and ergonomic of all handguns, but the same has been said of the Luger . . .

I think the HP is at its best in 9, both because it's lighter and sleeker in that chambering, but also because I don't have a bucket of .40.

I'm also a 1911 guy, can't leave them in stock condition, but my HP Mk. III is totally stock other than blacked-out dots on the rear sight. Unless you just can't live with the trigger, there's not really anything that "needs" to be corrected or modified.

[rpenmanparker]

Am I wrong that the Hi-Power is out of production totally? Both new and used ones come up for sale, but not reliably and with very little choice. I imagine finding a .40 in a configuration you want would be difficult. Of course, now someone will show me a 100 of them somewhere. Sigh!

[JDBerg]

An LGS / LGR I frequent had a really nice fixed-sight BHP standard in .40 S&W and at $700.00 it sat in the used gun case for a really long time. It was stock as a rock including the mag disconnect. But eventually they sold it when a customer offered $650.00 for it. I’d have to agree that I’d rather have this one in 9mm, and I’ve never shot a .40S&W BHP, but I could live with this one.

[Stats Shooter]

Am I wrong that the Hi-Power is out of production totally

From what I understand FN and Browning are no longer making it? But getting a hold of one doesn't seem too tough. My LGS has a couple 9mm's, both mk 3's, and gun broker plus other sites seem to have plenty.

The 9mm is a lot more common for sale from the searches I have done, and the only ones for sale locally here.

can someone enlighten me on the different models? Like I said a couple mk3's for sale local but is that what I want? Is there anything I should avoid?

[RickB]

There are many, many different models.
Most agree that the Mk. III is a better gun than earlier models, if you want a shooter rather than a collectible. Mods made to strengthen the frame for .40 were applied across the board.
There are models with fixed sights and adjustables.
Blued and epoxy-over-Parkerizing are standard finishes.

[rc]

Browning did a good job with the redesign. The barrel has an extra lug for strength and the slide and spring are heavier. The accuracy of my example has been great Yes there is some muzzle flip but not like a commander sized 45. The high power in 40 has a regular sized 10 shot magazine. I think the forty was discontinued due the trend towards plastic guns away from all steel ones. Reliability is good with round profile rounds like the original Winchester HP loadings but wide hollow points can hang up from time to time. Mine will feed 155 semi wadcutters if the round is loaded with the full diameter driving band even with the case mouth or slightly longer.

I accidentally overloaded some reloads once and the gun ate them fine. Glad it was just a few. These are tough guns with a cast frame that is supposed to take more of a beating over the original milled guns.

[Sturmpanzer]

Stay away from .40's... Very hard on the gun for minimal ballistic improvement over the 9mm... Hell, Police Depts are returning to the 9mm in droves due to the vast improvement in bullet design for the 9mm... Plus, that's what the High Power was made for anyway ..just my 2 cents... Great gun..if you have an older one ..keep it..they only go up in value every year...

[Ibmikey]

All of my personal HP’s are in 9 mm,, however, many years ago I used a .40 as one one test mules for adopting a new department handgun. The things we did to that HP were terrible as well as firing many thousands of rounds through it. The pistol came out with flying colors and not a single pistol induced malfunction but I could not convince the powers to be that a SA pistol can be carried ready to fire and still be safely carried and handled.
The HP in .40 is every bit as good as one in 9mm and that is about as good as it gets.

[In The Ten Ring]

I shot my .40 HP yesterday and it is an amazingly sweet shooter!

I plan to use it in IDPA this summer.

[cmdc]

I have a HP Practical in .40 and really like it. It is accurate and seems to handle the .40 caliber round very well.

Can anyone tell me what material the Practical frame made from? The pistol was manufactured in 1995.

[T. O'Heir]

"...Am I wrong that the Hi-Power is out of production totally..." Nope. All of 'em are listed as discontinued on Browning's site. Lots and lots of 'new old stock' or used BHP's around though. Won't be as many 40's though.
"...a 5 gallon bucket full of ammo..." That may or may not, likely not, shoot well out of another pistol.
"...BHP trigger is an odd design..." The disconnect is there because the BHP was intended to be sold as a Police pistol for European PD's. It wasn't in JM's original design. European PD's wouldn't buy the BHP without the disconnect.
It really isn't a big deal. The disconnect comes out by removing one wee, tiny, small pin in the trigger itself then removing the safety and its spring out the back of the trigger. Easier to do than type.
"...due to the vast improvement..." No PD selects a firearm for that reason. PD's are going back to 9mm because most 40's are too hot for smaller handed coppers. And money.

[WVsig]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...Am I wrong that the Hi-Power is out of production totally..." Nope. All of 'em are listed as discontinued on Browning's site. Lots and lots of 'new old stock' or used BHP's around though. Won't be as many 40's though.
"...a 5 gallon bucket full of ammo..." That may or may not, likely not, shoot well out of another pistol.
"...BHP trigger is an odd design..." The disconnect is there because the BHP was intended to be sold as a Police pistol for European PD's. It wasn't in JM's original design. European PD's wouldn't buy the BHP without the disconnect.
It really isn't a big deal. The disconnect comes out by removing one wee, tiny, small pin in the trigger itself then removing the safety and its spring out the back of the trigger. Easier to do than type.
"...due to the vast improvement..." No PD selects a firearm for that reason. PD's are going back to 9mm because most 40's are too hot for smaller handed coppers. And money.

The BHP was not designed for European police. It was developed for the French Army. They never adopted it but the Belgians did in 1935 which is why they are often referred to in Europe as the P35. The magazine disconnect was a requirement in the French contract so it was designed into the pistol. The Belgian kept it. The only one produced by FN without them were guns made for the Germans under German occupation of the FN plant in Liege.

You are also wrong about how to remove the magazine disconnect. Only Pre MKIIIs can be removed by removing the pin in the trigger. Some MKIIs will allow you to remove it that way but not all. All MKIIIs need to have the trigger removed in order to remove the magazine disconnect. All 40 S&W BHPs are MKIIIs. You have to drive the trigger pin out of the gun and remove the trigger.

Trigger removal instructions:

The trigger pin is removed from Right to Left, drive from the ejection port side towards the left.

With the slide off the pistol & the safety on, put some masking tape around the pin in case your brass punch slips and lay the frame on a Brownells #413-001-002WB Leather Vise Jaw Pad that's been placed on a Very Solid Surface. The grip area will need to hang over the edge of the work surface in order for the pin area of the frame to lay perfectly flat & solid. Now, put your 1/4" Dia. Brass Punch on the Rounded End thats sticking out past the Right Side of the frame & give it good solid hits untill it breaks loose. Once the pin has broken loose, just lay the frame on a Brownells Non-Marring, Plastic Bench Block #080-000-493WB or just lay the frame on your leg and finish driving the pin out with a 3/32 Pin Punch, it will only be tight for a very short distance.

Brownells Non-Marring Bench Block Pistol Bench Block : EXTRA-LARGE BENCH BLOCKS | Brownells

The leather vise jaw pad will protect the frame & soak up the bounce, it will also allow the pin to sink into it when it breaks loose.

The pin isn't tapered, it's original spec is .117" Dia. all the way across, the hole in the R.H. Side of the frame is under-sized to firmly hold the pin, so be sure to drive the pin out from Right to Left. Current production FN-Browning Matte Finished Trigger Pin's measure .1176" Dia. all the way across.

Oil the trigger pin & frame holes before reinstalling and ONLY install the trigger pin from Left to Right.

Also Note: Setting the safety has nothing to do with getting the trigger pin out. I only put the safety on as a precautionary measure to block the sear and prevent the hammer from falling & smashing into the sear-nose, in the event that the sear were to bounce and disengage the hammer hook.

As far as the LEO going back to 9mm bullet tech has a lot to do with it. Capacity and cost of ammo is also a big factor. The biggest factor is probably the FBIs return to 9mm. Most LEO even very large departments are not independent thinkers. Most moved to 40 S&W because the FBI IIRC.

So pretty much the only thing you got right was that all BHPs are discontinued. The 40 S&W has been gone for 5+ IIRC. The last of the 9mm shipped into the US in March of last year.

[Stats Shooter]

As far as the LEO going back to 9mm bullet tech has a lot to do with it. Capacity and cost of ammo is also a big factor. The biggest factor is probably the FBIs return to 9mm. Most LEO even very large departments are not independent thinkers. Most moved to 40 S&W because the FBI IIRC.

So pretty much the only thing you got right was that all BHPs are discontinued. The 40 S&W has been gone for 5+ IIRC. The last of the 9mm shipped into the US in March of last year.

This is pretty much the story. When the FBI adopted the 40, after flirting with the 10mm, it was because the 9mm didn't have the required terminal performance and muzzle energy of the 157 gr +P 38 special FBI load. The 10mm was too powerful and the 9mm not powerful enough.

Terminal performance and energy has improved dramatically since the late 80's so now the FBI has reverted back to the 9 due to greater mag capacity, lower cost, and similar or better performance to the 40 s&w from the 80's when it was adopted.....so LEO's tend to play follow the leader.

But tying the points above to this thread, it means 40's will probably fall out of favor in the civilian shooting arena as well. I don't mean disappear, but my buddies working at the LGS have said it's getting hard to sell 40's already. They have a couple shelves full of new and used 40's from glock, s&w, XD, that you can probably negotiate down to dealer prices were you so inclined.

I don't know what that means for the value of a BHP in 40 , it could be good or bad in the sense that a 9mm might be more desirable in the future, but the 40 might be more collectable? Just a thought.


Here's another question then. If Browning and FN have discontinued production.....would another company be able to pick up the patient or rights to build them? Like say Ruger or someone with the ability to make the frames, slides and parts in house if they wanted?

[WVsig]

Originally Posted by Stats Shooter

This is pretty much the story. When the FBI adopted the 40, after flirting with the 10mm, it was because the 9mm didn't have the required terminal performance and muzzle energy of the 157 gr +P 38 special FBI load. The 10mm was too powerful and the 9mm not powerful enough.

Terminal performance and energy has improved dramatically since the late 80's so now the FBI has reverted back to the 9 due to greater mag capacity, lower cost, and similar or better performance to the 40 s&w from the 80's when it was adopted.....so LEO's tend to play follow the leader.

But tying the points above to this thread, it means 40's will probably fall out of favor in the civilian shooting arena as well. I don't mean disappear, but my buddies working at the LGS have said it's getting hard to sell 40's already. They have a couple shelves full of new and used 40's from glock, s&w, XD, that you can probably negotiate down to dealer prices were you so inclined.

I don't know what that means for the value of a BHP in 40 , it could be good or bad in the sense that a 9mm might be more desirable in the future, but the 40 might be more collectable? Just a thought.


Here's another question then. If Browning and FN have discontinued production.....would another company be able to pick up the patient or rights to build them? Like say Ruger or someone with the ability to make the frames, slides and parts in house if they wanted?

Patient rights on the BHP ran out years ago. Anyone who wanted to make them could. There have been many clones over the years. FEG, FM, Acrus, Kareem etc... Currently the only one being made and imported into the US is a Regent which is made in Turkey by Tias. They have been available in Canada for a while and just started coming into the US. Reports have been positive.

Honestly there is no money in the BHP design IHMO. There are so many surplus and commercial versions out there already anyone who wants one can get one if they know where to look. The market for them is really pretty limited. There is some renewed interest because they have been discontinued but I expect that to fade in the next year.

The 40 S&W has been discontinued for a while and honestly it was only produced and sold for the US market. It has little collectiblity vs 9mm versions like the T series or Pre-T series BHPs.

[tomrkba]

I had two. Novak did trigger work and they were great. Recoil was sharp due to the design and caused issues. Buy because you want a Hi Power in 40 S&W to shoot.

[Kevin Rohrer]

I really like my customized .40 BHP and carry it everyday. The trigger is not bad, and I have trained to fire it w/o a problem.