December 28, 2014, 12:15 PM | #376 |
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I heard that past arguments them selves don't carry much weight , only the rulings do . I assume it's because one will say anything to win a case even if you don't believe it , so it would make sense not to put much weight into them .
That being said I do believe there was a ruling agreeing with the AG when she made that argument so lets see if that carries any weight .
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December 28, 2014, 06:00 PM | #377 |
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Past arguments made by potential litigants in same or identical cases such as Peruta/Baker/Richards do carry weight with regard to their standing in those cases. A party can't even bring up new arguments on appeal not previously raised, let alone make an opposite argument in the same case(s).
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March 8, 2015, 09:42 AM | #378 |
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So does anyone have any idea what is happening with this case now? It seems that every time there's a time frame for some sort of decision it comes and goes with nothing happening. Just how long can they string this out for?
I've even had to check the "old thread warning" box to post this it's been so long! |
March 8, 2015, 10:39 AM | #379 |
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Still sitting with the will-it-go-en-banc problem. No news.
You can check the court's web site here: http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/content/..._id=0000000722 and Peruta's lawyer's web site here: http://michellawyers.com/guncasetrac...rutavsandiego/
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March 9, 2015, 12:58 PM | #380 | |
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From everything I've read about time lines . The court should have completed the vote on weather to go En-banc or not . We are just waiting for the results . Some are speculating that we are waiting on a very long dissent ( either way ) that is being written up now .
Like this dissent http://notabug.com/kozinski/silveira_v_lockyer Quote:
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March 10, 2015, 10:09 PM | #381 |
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There are no hard and fast timelines for the Court of Appeals to act; at best, timelines are mere recommendations to keep things moving. My experience with the Ninth is that things happen "eventually," but not according to any defined schedule. If for example, a vote occurs declining to grant en banc, and one or more justice dissents, the result of the vote will not be released until the dissenting opinion is completed.
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March 26, 2015, 06:23 PM | #382 |
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En banc rehearing ordered: https://www.firearmspolicy.org/news/...o-ccw-lawsuit/
This doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling! |
March 26, 2015, 06:35 PM | #383 |
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This is a very unhappy development. Who is appealing, i.e. who will argue for the state? Gore says he's out, AG Harris has not yet been granted intervention (though the order denying intervention has also been struck). What a mess.
I having trouble imagining any way this ends well, unless SCOTUS grants cert, but it it's probably 2 or 3 years from a cert petition now. |
March 26, 2015, 07:36 PM | #384 |
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The chief judge is Thomas. Wasn't he the dissent the last time this was heard?
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March 26, 2015, 07:45 PM | #385 |
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Holy Crap! Not only does this not look good, it also has no date of the hearing.
Any ideas how much longer the 9th can delay this? And is it normal for the decision of the previous 3 judge panel to not be allowed as precedent?
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March 27, 2015, 12:23 AM | #386 |
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Docs here: http://michellawyers.com/guncasetrac...rutavsandiego/
Oral arguments scheduled for the week of June 15, 2015. It isn't quite clear whether the court has joined Peruta and Richards (v Prieto, Yolo County) for this hearing. Yes, Thomas wrote the dissent from the 3-judge panel.
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March 27, 2015, 06:37 AM | #387 |
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Thanks Librarian. At least we don't have to wait long for the hearing. The decision on the other hand.................
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March 27, 2015, 06:25 PM | #388 | |
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Quote:
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March 28, 2015, 02:53 AM | #389 | |
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Quote from judge Thomas
Quote:
Question : How much of what we all thought was a well thought out , well researched ruling can we use . There was a lot of research and historical analysis in that ruling . I guess what I'm asking is how much of that ruling can they just cut and paste to there briefs or oral arguments ????
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March 28, 2015, 12:47 PM | #390 |
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The Peruta arguments will be incorporated for the en banc review, as they emanated directly from Heller, McDonald, Moore, and even the (overturned on appeal) Woolard case in MD. The arguments are sound; are based squarely on the Supreme Court's reasoning in Heller and MCDonald and remain as compelling as ever.
I suspect when (not if) the ninth circuit overturns Peruta decision it will closely parallel Judge Thomas's dissent in the original three-judge panel decision. They will seize on language in Heller, absent the essential context for it, that concealed carry is not protected under the second amendment. But in Heller, in each cited case where a concealed carry ban was upheld, there was open carry available to satisfy the right. Setting aside the absurdity of relying on California's (then) unloaded open carry requirement, the original district court decision with Judge Irma Gonzalez relied on (unloaded) open carry to satisfy the right. It was used as justification for discretionary issuance of CCW licenses. But even unloaded open carry was since banned by the CA legislature, strengthening and simplifying the plaintiff's argument in Peruta. Last edited by maestro pistolero; March 28, 2015 at 01:09 PM. |
March 28, 2015, 01:56 PM | #391 |
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It would be interesting to see how Thomas's logic would apply in a state like Florida or Texas where concealed carry is shall-issue but open carry is banned. Using this judge's logic, States would be forced to either allow open carry firearms in order to continue satisfying the right to bear arms or they could be permitted to foreclose the right altogether.
Of course, shall issue states could continue to license concealed carry, but if the right to bear is only a right to open carry it ignores the preference of almost all shall issue states and the vastly more common and accepted social norm today of discrete concealed carry. The original basis for bans on concealed carry was that it was deemed by society to be underhanded, lacking in honor, and the practice of criminals. In modern society, it is now open carry that is often deemed brutish and uncivilized, and it is far more often open carry that is feared and a claimed source of social disruption. Based on the microscopic .007% revocation rate of licensees, it is clear that licensed concealed carry is hardly the practice of common criminals. . . in fact, the opposite could not be more true. Last edited by maestro pistolero; March 28, 2015 at 02:11 PM. |
March 28, 2015, 06:44 PM | #392 | ||
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March 28, 2015, 06:58 PM | #393 | |
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I've said it many times, but if there's one thing an anti-gun zealot abhors more than knowing his or her fellow citizen is armed, it is having to actually see the darn thing. |
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March 29, 2015, 01:19 AM | #394 | |
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March 29, 2015, 01:42 AM | #395 | |
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March 29, 2015, 09:47 AM | #396 | |
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March 29, 2015, 10:03 AM | #397 |
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I believe they specifically called restricting it to the home a flagrant infringement, to boot.
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March 29, 2015, 10:36 AM | #398 |
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Heller invalidated the requirement that a firearm be disabled. The right is to a functional firearm for ""immediate use for self-defense." Just because the scope of the Heller case was the home does not mean that a defensive firearm outside the home can be required to be nonfunctional, i.e. unloaded.
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March 29, 2015, 02:07 PM | #399 |
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I agree completely, but we've seen a lot of judges use the "in the home" verbiage and twist that to mean outside the home gets "intermediate scrutiny"--which then turns into rational basis by another name...and they rule against us.
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March 29, 2015, 02:53 PM | #400 |
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Should the argument not be as simple as "does a person have the RIGHT (not choice)to defend ones self outside the home" ? That question need not include any weapon . Do we have a RIGHT not to die at the hands of another ? That question must be answered first before we move on to the next step . The next step is , does the person defending his or her self have the RIGHT (not choice)to use at least equal force if not overwhelming force to save ones own life .
If the answer to both is yes (which I believe it already is ) the case should be closed . Give me my holster please
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