Colt Lightning Carbine - Page 2

Tidewater_Kid · August 12, 2016, 09:23 PM

a few more...

johnm1 · August 12, 2016, 10:01 PM

I want to thank Tidewater Kid for posting pictures for me. I'm not normally technically challenged but this time it got to me. There is a little bit of stubbornness involved. I'm just not going to pay for a picture hosting site. Im ok with beat up as long as it shoots.

These are pictures before it was cleaned up. Though it doesnt look much better after.

Tidewater_Kid · August 12, 2016, 11:08 PM

My pleasure John. Thanks for letting me share.

TK

johnm1 · August 13, 2016, 02:02 PM

Ok, so the barrel is pretty much toast. Slugged the barrel and the smallest measurement was .316. But the largest measurement was .319. The engraved rifling was visible but barely. The bore was fairly tight at the muzzle but there were two places in the middle third that had significantly less resistance. The bore was tight again just in front of he chamber. So I figure the options are:

- Swage a larger diameter bullet to somewhere around .320. I could see issues with the chamber at the neck and possible feed issues

- make/use hollow base bullets. I doubt these wojld obturate sufficiently.

- Reline the existing 18" barrel. Estimate at $300

- Replacement barrel. Unknown cost but suspect it would be close to $500. Colt Parts doesn't list a price but a mag tube lists for $250! Edit: mag tube is $195.

- Have a barrel made. $400-$500 dollars.

James K · August 13, 2016, 11:37 PM

It would be a long shot and require a lot of measurements (which I have NOT done), but something like an old .303 Enfield barrel would be OK on Internal diameters, and probably any .308 barrel would be OK at those low pressures.

Jim

johnm1 · August 14, 2016, 08:25 AM

I'm leaning towards relining the existing barrel. That gets the carbine to the condition I had expected when I bought it. First I want to see what the cost is for a replacement barrel from Colt Parts. That and get a second quote on the reline. Although the $285 quote i have sounds about right. I dislike the idea of investing in a barrel that has been cut. That and I would prefer a 20" round barrel to help with the weight. I wonder how much less a 20" round barrel would be compared to the 18" octogon?

I thought about making some hollow bases out of some of the rounds that I have just to see how they would work. But I don't have dies yet. I wonder if a 32 long seat die would crimp these for a test. I'm pretty sure I have those.

I knew this was a possibility when I bought it. But I have bought a lot of rifles with poor bores. This is the first time I got burned. I think the worst I had done before was to bring an old k98 Mauser back to 4 minutes. That might have passed inspection.

johnm1 · August 15, 2016, 10:27 PM

I'm having a hard time with the pin that retains the bolt/locking brace. Considering the amount of corrosion overall it doesn't surprise me. I just keep hitting it with kroil. I haven't figured a way to apply heat other than to heat the whole bolt. Sometimes that works on old automobiles. Heat, penetrating oil, cool, repeat. I'm not sure if I could hurt anything with a propane flame.

Soaked the barrel in Hoppes #9 last night and the patches are still coming out muddy. Deeper rifling is showing up though.

James K · August 16, 2016, 10:46 PM

Using a torch on a gun is not a great idea. I have no idea how or even whether the bolts of those guns were hardened, but heating around the bolt could ruin any hardening there is. So go easy with any torch around the locking areas of a gun.

Jim

johnm1 · August 17, 2016, 12:47 AM

I didn't figure that a procedure effective on a 600 pound cast iron engine block from the 50's would be applicable to a firearm. But in that environment it does work. The heat/cool, expansion/contraction with a good penetrating oil present eventually breaks almost any bolt free. You do need to be patient though. I'll just keep it wet with kroil.

I have just about resolved that I will never get a clean patch through this barrel. 129 years of neglect may never come clean. I'm still working on the intermittent feed issues. I want to be sure I can resolve those before I spend anything on the barrel. The guy from Colt Parts hasn't responded to my pricing request.

Model12Win · August 17, 2016, 10:38 AM

It BLOWS MY MIND why one of the big makers (I'm looking at you, Ruger) doesn't come out with a compact lightweight pump-action tube-fed rifle chambered in magnum pistol cartridges. I think with an alloy receiver, stainless bbl, polymer stock, 16"-20" bbls, in .357 or .44 magnum would be tops.

mapsjanhere · August 17, 2016, 11:22 AM

Probably because you'd be competing directly with a 20 gauge pump shotgun in performance and versatility.

James K · August 17, 2016, 07:58 PM

While pump shotguns are very popular, and slide action .22's were once very common, slide action center fire rifles seem to have never become very popular. Remington's 14/141 series and the later 760/7600 are probably at the top of the list, but attempts at pump action rifles by other makers have been less successful. The Remingtons seem to sell best in areas where semi-auto rifles are banned for hunting, so the pump action provides faster follow-up shots than a bolt action.

I doubt that the competition from shotguns is a major factor, and things might change if a major maker wanted to bring out a pump center-fire rifle, but as of now, I don't see a market.

Jim

johnm1 · August 20, 2016, 01:02 AM

No reply to my e mail from ColtParts. Phone goes to a voicemail that is full. Not sure where to source a replacement barrel other than them. Numrich has a 44-40 barrel but I'd have to change the innards out to match. And they don't have those parts. I'll shoot it again tomorrow for function and to see if a cleaner barrel helps. Can't see how it could.

I'll try for a little longer but won't wait too long before I reline this barrel.

Tidewater_Kid · August 20, 2016, 11:38 AM

You might give these folks a call.

http://www.ssfirearms.com/products.asp?cat=108

I have delt with them for a long time and they might have one or know where you might find one.

Good Luck!

TK

johnm1 · August 20, 2016, 09:43 PM

It is worth a try. While I don't have any objection to a reline, I'd rather not reline a barrel that has been cut. That and I'd prefer a round barrel. I assume a round barrel 2" longer will still be lighter than the octogon barrel.

johnm1 · August 21, 2016, 02:26 PM

Looks like I'll have to call these vendors. None list a barrel. Cleaning seemed to help the tumbling. Enough so I'm going to try hollow base bullets to see ifmthere is enough rifling to stabize a bullet. They still tum le, just not as much. The only hollow base 32-20 I know of are wad cutters. Not sure they will feed tnough A wadcutter would work for me if they would feed. I may try to hollow out some of the RNFP bullets i have. Just to see.

A better clean and lubricate didn't help the feed issues. I have to figure that out before I invest in a barrel reline.

August 12, 2016, 10:01 PM	#27
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	I want to thank Tidewater Kid for posting pictures for me. I'm not normally technically challenged but this time it got to me. There is a little bit of stubbornness involved. I'm just not going to pay for a picture hosting site. Im ok with beat up as long as it shoots. These are pictures before it was cleaned up. Though it doesnt look much better after. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

August 13, 2016, 02:02 PM	#29
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	Ok, so the barrel is pretty much toast. Slugged the barrel and the smallest measurement was .316. But the largest measurement was .319. The engraved rifling was visible but barely. The bore was fairly tight at the muzzle but there were two places in the middle third that had significantly less resistance. The bore was tight again just in front of he chamber. So I figure the options are: - Swage a larger diameter bullet to somewhere around .320. I could see issues with the chamber at the neck and possible feed issues - make/use hollow base bullets. I doubt these wojld obturate sufficiently. - Reline the existing 18" barrel. Estimate at $300 - Replacement barrel. Unknown cost but suspect it would be close to $500. Colt Parts doesn't list a price but a mag tube lists for $250! Edit: mag tube is $195. - Have a barrel made. $400-$500 dollars. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ Last edited by johnm1; August 13, 2016 at 09:21 PM.

August 14, 2016, 08:25 AM	#31
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	I'm leaning towards relining the existing barrel. That gets the carbine to the condition I had expected when I bought it. First I want to see what the cost is for a replacement barrel from Colt Parts. That and get a second quote on the reline. Although the $285 quote i have sounds about right. I dislike the idea of investing in a barrel that has been cut. That and I would prefer a 20" round barrel to help with the weight. I wonder how much less a 20" round barrel would be compared to the 18" octogon? I thought about making some hollow bases out of some of the rounds that I have just to see how they would work. But I don't have dies yet. I wonder if a 32 long seat die would crimp these for a test. I'm pretty sure I have those. I knew this was a possibility when I bought it. But I have bought a lot of rifles with poor bores. This is the first time I got burned. I think the worst I had done before was to bring an old k98 Mauser back to 4 minutes. That might have passed inspection. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

August 15, 2016, 10:27 PM	#32
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	I'm having a hard time with the pin that retains the bolt/locking brace. Considering the amount of corrosion overall it doesn't surprise me. I just keep hitting it with kroil. I haven't figured a way to apply heat other than to heat the whole bolt. Sometimes that works on old automobiles. Heat, penetrating oil, cool, repeat. I'm not sure if I could hurt anything with a propane flame. Soaked the barrel in Hoppes #9 last night and the patches are still coming out muddy. Deeper rifling is showing up though. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ Last edited by johnm1; August 15, 2016 at 11:26 PM.

August 17, 2016, 12:47 AM	#34
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	I didn't figure that a procedure effective on a 600 pound cast iron engine block from the 50's would be applicable to a firearm. But in that environment it does work. The heat/cool, expansion/contraction with a good penetrating oil present eventually breaks almost any bolt free. You do need to be patient though. I'll just keep it wet with kroil. I have just about resolved that I will never get a clean patch through this barrel. 129 years of neglect may never come clean. I'm still working on the intermittent feed issues. I want to be sure I can resolve those before I spend anything on the barrel. The guy from Colt Parts hasn't responded to my pricing request. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

August 12, 2016, 11:08 PM	#28
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	My pleasure John. Thanks for letting me share. TK

August 13, 2016, 11:37 PM	#30
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It would be a long shot and require a lot of measurements (which I have NOT done), but something like an old .303 Enfield barrel would be OK on Internal diameters, and probably any .308 barrel would be OK at those low pressures. Jim

August 16, 2016, 10:46 PM	#33
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Using a torch on a gun is not a great idea. I have no idea how or even whether the bolts of those guns were hardened, but heating around the bolt could ruin any hardening there is. So go easy with any torch around the locking areas of a gun. Jim

August 17, 2016, 10:38 AM	#35
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	It BLOWS MY MIND why one of the big makers (I'm looking at you, Ruger) doesn't come out with a compact lightweight pump-action tube-fed rifle chambered in magnum pistol cartridges. I think with an alloy receiver, stainless bbl, polymer stock, 16"-20" bbls, in .357 or .44 magnum would be tops.

August 17, 2016, 11:22 AM	#36
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Probably because you'd be competing directly with a 20 gauge pump shotgun in performance and versatility. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

August 17, 2016, 07:58 PM	#37
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	While pump shotguns are very popular, and slide action .22's were once very common, slide action center fire rifles seem to have never become very popular. Remington's 14/141 series and the later 760/7600 are probably at the top of the list, but attempts at pump action rifles by other makers have been less successful. The Remingtons seem to sell best in areas where semi-auto rifles are banned for hunting, so the pump action provides faster follow-up shots than a bolt action. I doubt that the competition from shotguns is a major factor, and things might change if a major maker wanted to bring out a pump center-fire rifle, but as of now, I don't see a market. Jim

August 20, 2016, 01:02 AM	#38
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	No reply to my e mail from ColtParts. Phone goes to a voicemail that is full. Not sure where to source a replacement barrel other than them. Numrich has a 44-40 barrel but I'd have to change the innards out to match. And they don't have those parts. I'll shoot it again tomorrow for function and to see if a cleaner barrel helps. Can't see how it could. I'll try for a little longer but won't wait too long before I reline this barrel. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

August 20, 2016, 11:38 AM	#39
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	You might give these folks a call. http://www.ssfirearms.com/products.asp?cat=108 I have delt with them for a long time and they might have one or know where you might find one. Good Luck! TK

August 20, 2016, 09:43 PM	#40
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	It is worth a try. While I don't have any objection to a reline, I'd rather not reline a barrel that has been cut. That and I'd prefer a round barrel. I assume a round barrel 2" longer will still be lighter than the octogon barrel. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

August 21, 2016, 02:26 PM	#41
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	Looks like I'll have to call these vendors. None list a barrel. Cleaning seemed to help the tumbling. Enough so I'm going to try hollow base bullets to see ifmthere is enough rifling to stabize a bullet. They still tum le, just not as much. The only hollow base 32-20 I know of are wad cutters. Not sure they will feed tnough A wadcutter would work for me if they would feed. I may try to hollow out some of the RNFP bullets i have. Just to see. A better clean and lubricate didn't help the feed issues. I have to figure that out before I invest in a barrel reline. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ