First Gun Help? - Page 3

marine6680 · June 22, 2015, 08:52 PM

Tunnel... Who are you quoting? I don't see it in the thread.

Either way... Physics...

Most people don't understand it, not well enough anyway with regards to bullet performance.

They don't understand how little energy plays in for (most) handgun rounds.

The added size and weight of the 40 is offset by the added drag it faces when traveling through test medium... That coupled with the understanding of wounding done by professionals has lead to an optimum performance characteristics profile... And 9mm, 40, and 45 all meet that profile with little variation.

TunnelRat · June 22, 2015, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Tunnel... Who are you quoting? I don't see it in the thread.

That individual amended his post

.

Quote:

They don't understand how little energy plays in for (most) handgun rounds.

Agreed. People act like it's the difference between 5.56x45 and 7.62x51. There's only so much a handgun can do. We carry them because of the convenience they afford.

marine6680 · June 23, 2015, 12:16 AM

Well that would be why then.

Husqvarn · June 23, 2015, 12:30 AM

Go to www.impactguns.com handguns and choose your caliber then start with Prices Low to High, that will show you what is on the market in your price range. Youtube is good to check out the gun of your choice.
Remember .40 is a Goverment Round and may at times be hard to get as Unckle Sam has first bid.

BigBL87 · June 23, 2015, 01:11 AM

In addition to impactguns.com, I like to use slickguns.com. Great for finding the best deal available.

Quote:

The price difference between 9mm and .40 S&W ammo is negligible. All else being equal I would recommend .40

Since nobody touched on this, I wanted to correct or at least address it. Using ammoseek.com, the cheapest brass 9mm I found is 18 cents, cheapest brass .40 is 22 cents. That may not sound like much, but that's $40 less per 1000 rounds. To me that's not negligible. That being said, if/when I jump up in caliber on my next gun, I plan to skip over .40 S&W and go straight to .45 ACP. If I'm going to jump up, I'd rather not settle for the middle ground.

Theohazard · June 23, 2015, 03:18 AM

Like the previous poster pointed out; the price of 9mm ammo is definitely cheaper than the price of .40 S&W or .45 ACP. So, considering there's no measurable difference in the real-world effectiveness between those calibers, I think it makes sense to pick a defensive caliber you can practice with the most. For most people that's 9mm, and that's one of the reasons why it's more popular than the other defensive calibers.

hartcreek · June 23, 2015, 03:30 AM

The OP simply needs to shoot more rental guns to get an idea of what is out there and check everyplace that sell guns in his area. Only by shooting hammer style semis and stryker during the same session will you be able to decide. Once you get more experience shooting it will not make a difference until you pick up a Glock and fight the angle. This is his first hangun and he needs to take more time unless there is a rush for live fire for a CCW.

jetinteriorguy · June 23, 2015, 05:06 AM

CZ P-09, 19+1 capacity, very good stock trigger, adjustable handgrip, not too heavy, very accurate, great ergonomics, upgrades available, and ultra reliable. Also very affordable.

PatientWolf · June 23, 2015, 05:30 AM

OP, based on your original post PLUS updates (good to see you are following and participating in the tread), I would, as others have pointed out, be looking for a hammer fired 9mm in your position.

Of the ones you've mentioned, the CZ and the Sig 2022 are both excellent weapons. If you are leaning toward the CZ but the cost is a little too steep, I'd look at the Tri-Star/Canik clones (also as others have pointed out. If you prefer the CZ and can swing the cost, then stick with the original.

Other option you may want to consider would be a used H&K USPc in 9mm. I've seen them go on the used shelf for reasonable amounts.

JDBerg · June 23, 2015, 08:55 AM

OP, Why not enroll in the NRA Basic Handgun Safety class at your LGR. When you ask the Number 1 question that always gets asked, the instructor will typically respond with "rent or borrow different guns for 6 months and find out for yourself which one you shoot the best, which will be the one you like the best". Best advice I ever got came as a result of taking that course!

Frankly · June 23, 2015, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Using ammoseek.com, the cheapest brass 9mm I found is 18 cents, cheapest brass .40 is 22 cents. That may not sound like much, but that's $40 less per 1000 rounds. To me that's not negligible.

Fair enough to say it's subjective. To me that's a negligible difference for factory ammo. If you hand load, it's even less.

Quote:

I plan to skip over .40 S&W and go straight to .45 ACP. If I'm going to jump up, I'd rather not settle for the middle ground.

Now you're talking about a substantial difference in ammo cost.

**Spats McGee** · June 23, 2015, 11:27 AM

First of all, welcome to TFL, DAFL! You've got quite the first post there.

I've been watching this thread, but unable to reply, for a few days. Someone commented earlier that it seemed like you, DAFL, might be looking for both a CC gun, as well as one for armed security work. Do you mind telling us if that's indeed the case? (We'll be encouraging you to buy more pistols later (

), but it might help us help you if we knew if this pistol was: (a) to be CC only; or (b) if you're looking to OC it as an armed security guard, as well.)

Personally, I've always put my guns to multiple uses, partly because I've never had the budget to buy lots of dedicated-use guns, and partly because I'd just rather have a handful of guns that I shoot fairly well, than have lots of guns that I shoot rather poorly.

If you're going to use the pistol for CC only, then smaller and lighter might be the order of the day, but that might depend on your wardrobe and activities. If I lived in FL and had a job on the waterfront that called for shorts and a T-shirt, I'd be looking for something in the LCP or LC9 size. Maybe a J-frame or an LCR. OTOH, even in that climate, if I were in a job that required slacks, collard shirt and a jacket, I'd move up a size for: (a) capacity; (b) longer sight radius; (c) less recoil.

In my personal, subjective, relatively inexperienced opinion, the pistols commonly called "compacts" are like Goldilocks. Not too big and not too small. Something in the 4" range for a barrel, 10-15 rounds (depending on caliber and model). Mine is a Glock 19, but (clearly) not everyone cares for Glocks. That's OK, because there are a host of other pistols that fit the Goldilocks parameters: S&W M&P compacts, XDm compacts, some in the Ruger SR series, some CZs. No doubt I've overlooked a few, but those are the ones that come to mind.

Old_Dog · June 23, 2015, 02:30 PM

None. I would not recommend a .40 for a first time gun buyer. You cag get 9mm ammo that comes real close to the performance of a .40. The recoil from a .40 is sharp and in small guns, will slow down your follow up shots and may not be very comfortable to shoot. I would take a look at 9mm instead. You will shoot it better and faster. These days with modern ammo there is little difference in "stopping" power among the 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP. All are in used by LEO.

There seems to be some agencies moving to either 9mm or .45 ACP by some law enforcement agencies. They all claim that when they go to 9mm, their qualification scores improve significantly. My regular Federal HST 9mm ammo passes all the FBI tests and we are talking fractions of an inch in bullet size. I ignore the energy transfer and other stuff people debate about because I was in combat and saw what really mattered is shot placement and that is more easily accomplished with the less recoiling 9mm for me.

Frankly · June 23, 2015, 04:13 PM

Quote:

I would not recommend a .40 for a first time gun buyer.

I refrain from telling first time gun buyers what they should not get. My favorite advice on the subject is get the largest caliber you can shoot well, and practice a lot.

hatchettjack · June 23, 2015, 05:54 PM

Just sayin!
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1435100085.139038.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1435100132.091394.jpg

View Poll Results: Pick the one you would want to carry.
M&P 40	13	39.39%
G22	10	30.30%
FNX 40	6	18.18%
SR40	4	12.12%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

June 23, 2015, 03:18 AM	#56
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	Like the previous poster pointed out; the price of 9mm ammo is definitely cheaper than the price of .40 S&W or .45 ACP. So, considering there's no measurable difference in the real-world effectiveness between those calibers, I think it makes sense to pick a defensive caliber you can practice with the most. For most people that's 9mm, and that's one of the reasons why it's more popular than the other defensive calibers. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

June 23, 2015, 11:27 AM	#62
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	First of all, welcome to TFL, DAFL! You've got quite the first post there. I've been watching this thread, but unable to reply, for a few days. Someone commented earlier that it seemed like you, DAFL, might be looking for both a CC gun, as well as one for armed security work. Do you mind telling us if that's indeed the case? (We'll be encouraging you to buy more pistols later (), but it might help us help you if we knew if this pistol was: (a) to be CC only; or (b) if you're looking to OC it as an armed security guard, as well.) Personally, I've always put my guns to multiple uses, partly because I've never had the budget to buy lots of dedicated-use guns, and partly because I'd just rather have a handful of guns that I shoot fairly well, than have lots of guns that I shoot rather poorly. If you're going to use the pistol for CC only, then smaller and lighter might be the order of the day, but that might depend on your wardrobe and activities. If I lived in FL and had a job on the waterfront that called for shorts and a T-shirt, I'd be looking for something in the LCP or LC9 size. Maybe a J-frame or an LCR. OTOH, even in that climate, if I were in a job that required slacks, collard shirt and a jacket, I'd move up a size for: (a) capacity; (b) longer sight radius; (c) less recoil. In my personal, subjective, relatively inexperienced opinion, the pistols commonly called "compacts" are like Goldilocks. Not too big and not too small. Something in the 4" range for a barrel, 10-15 rounds (depending on caliber and model). Mine is a Glock 19, but (clearly) not everyone cares for Glocks. That's OK, because there are a host of other pistols that fit the Goldilocks parameters: S&W M&P compacts, XDm compacts, some in the Ruger SR series, some CZs. No doubt I've overlooked a few, but those are the ones that come to mind. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

June 23, 2015, 02:30 PM	#63
Old_Dog Member Join Date: May 6, 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 62	None. I would not recommend a .40 for a first time gun buyer. You cag get 9mm ammo that comes real close to the performance of a .40. The recoil from a .40 is sharp and in small guns, will slow down your follow up shots and may not be very comfortable to shoot. I would take a look at 9mm instead. You will shoot it better and faster. These days with modern ammo there is little difference in "stopping" power among the 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP. All are in used by LEO. There seems to be some agencies moving to either 9mm or .45 ACP by some law enforcement agencies. They all claim that when they go to 9mm, their qualification scores improve significantly. My regular Federal HST 9mm ammo passes all the FBI tests and we are talking fractions of an inch in bullet size. I ignore the energy transfer and other stuff people debate about because I was in combat and saw what really mattered is shot placement and that is more easily accomplished with the less recoiling 9mm for me. __________________ I prepare for the possible that is most likely rather than the unlikely just because it is possible.

June 23, 2015, 05:54 PM	#65
hatchettjack Member Join Date: June 11, 2015 Posts: 17	First Gun Help? Just sayin! ImageUploadedByTapatalk1435100085.139038.jpg ImageUploadedByTapatalk1435100132.091394.jpg

June 22, 2015, 08:52 PM	#51
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Tunnel... Who are you quoting? I don't see it in the thread. Either way... Physics... Most people don't understand it, not well enough anyway with regards to bullet performance. They don't understand how little energy plays in for (most) handgun rounds. The added size and weight of the 40 is offset by the added drag it faces when traveling through test medium... That coupled with the understanding of wounding done by professionals has lead to an optimum performance characteristics profile... And 9mm, 40, and 45 all meet that profile with little variation.

June 23, 2015, 12:16 AM	#53
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Well that would be why then.

June 23, 2015, 12:30 AM	#54
Husqvarn Member Join Date: June 14, 2015 Posts: 39	Go to www.impactguns.com handguns and choose your caliber then start with Prices Low to High, that will show you what is on the market in your price range. Youtube is good to check out the gun of your choice. Remember .40 is a Goverment Round and may at times be hard to get as Unckle Sam has first bid.

June 23, 2015, 03:30 AM	#57
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	The OP simply needs to shoot more rental guns to get an idea of what is out there and check everyplace that sell guns in his area. Only by shooting hammer style semis and stryker during the same session will you be able to decide. Once you get more experience shooting it will not make a difference until you pick up a Glock and fight the angle. This is his first hangun and he needs to take more time unless there is a rush for live fire for a CCW.

June 23, 2015, 05:06 AM	#58
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,176	CZ P-09, 19+1 capacity, very good stock trigger, adjustable handgrip, not too heavy, very accurate, great ergonomics, upgrades available, and ultra reliable. Also very affordable.

June 23, 2015, 05:30 AM	#59
PatientWolf Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 947	OP, based on your original post PLUS updates (good to see you are following and participating in the tread), I would, as others have pointed out, be looking for a hammer fired 9mm in your position. Of the ones you've mentioned, the CZ and the Sig 2022 are both excellent weapons. If you are leaning toward the CZ but the cost is a little too steep, I'd look at the Tri-Star/Canik clones (also as others have pointed out. If you prefer the CZ and can swing the cost, then stick with the original. Other option you may want to consider would be a used H&K USPc in 9mm. I've seen them go on the used shelf for reasonable amounts.

June 23, 2015, 08:55 AM	#60
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	OP, Why not enroll in the NRA Basic Handgun Safety class at your LGR. When you ask the Number 1 question that always gets asked, the instructor will typically respond with "rent or borrow different guns for 6 months and find out for yourself which one you shoot the best, which will be the one you like the best". Best advice I ever got came as a result of taking that course!