M1 Carbine Overheating

jackstrawIII · September 10, 2018, 09:49 AM

Hey, recently picked up a USGI M1 Carbine (Underwood) in good shape. It's a 1943 manufacture date, and runs and cycles great. Except...

It heats up really, really fast. If I shoot 20 rounds through it in less than a couple minutes or so, the barrel and action will be so hot you can't really touch it for more than a second. I'm just shooting bulk Armscor Precision ammo, nothing too hot or high pressure.

Guys who have some experience with these guns:
- Is there some sort of lubrication protocol that will prevent this?
- Should I be concerned, or is this normal and I just need to get over it?

Thanks so much.

davidsog · September 10, 2018, 10:01 AM

It was made for LSA.

https://www.amazon.com/Rothco-G-I-LS.../dp/B01DMWL4K2

Overheating was not uncommon in service M1's.

NoSecondBest · September 10, 2018, 10:02 AM

Normal. Most loads for this gun use a ball powder and that adds even more to the heating. Any gun will get very hot to the touch after firing 20 rounds within a couple of minutes. Even my shotguns do that when shooting what they call "flush and flurries". One time I fired seventeen rounds in just under two minutes, and not thinking I grabbed my gun by the barrel to pick it up. I ended up with a big blister all the way across the palm of my hand. Lube is not really going to do much, if anything, to help with this.

COSteve · September 10, 2018, 10:08 AM

Normal. Back when it was designed it, like all weapons not meant to be machine guns weren't used for mag dumps. They were designed for aimed fire.

davidsog · September 10, 2018, 10:11 AM

Section III covers cleaning and lubrication

http://www.6thcorpscombatengineers.c...0%20M1%20).pdf

This one has more detailed instructions with a list of specific areas to lube and a goes over the characteristics of various lubricants you can use on your weapon.

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR...m1_carbine.pdf

RickB · September 10, 2018, 11:14 AM

I'll admit to never noticing that my Carbine quickly gets hot.
I used to shoot 3-gun with it, and it was common to shoot an average of a shot per second for 20-60 seconds; I must have just never put my hand on the barrel after a stage?
I shoot nothing but handloads with IMR4227 powder.

**44 AMP** · September 10, 2018, 11:20 AM

The handguard is NOT just there for looks, you know...

It's normal, expected and the design allows for it.

Now, if your wood stock starts smoldering after only 20rnds, Then something is definitely not right.

jackstrawIII · September 10, 2018, 12:45 PM

Davidsog, thanks for those links on maintenance and cleaning. Really useful!!

davidsog · September 10, 2018, 01:03 PM

You are most welcome!

pete2 · September 10, 2018, 06:44 PM

What 44 AMP said.

jackstrawIII · September 10, 2018, 08:19 PM

Quote:

It's normal, expected and the design allows for it.

Now, if your wood stock starts smoldering after only 20rnds, Then something is definitely not right.

That's a pretty high bar haha. I guess it's not a problem. I'll just keep shooting. Glad I asked though, as the resources shared were super helpful. Thanks everyone.

kraigwy · September 11, 2018, 07:28 AM

Military Rifles can take it:

Years ago I was running a sniper school using M1C/Ds. We were using one of the machine gun ranges at Ft Richardson. A regular army LT showed up with a machine gun crew asking if they could use one end of the range to qualify the machine gunners.

I let them qualify then afterword we had a little competition. Their M-60 against 4 of our snipers. Who could get the most targets down in a certain period of time. 400-900 yards. We, won. Instead of using one of our sniper rifles I used my personal DCM M1 Garand. It got so hot sap was boiling out of the handguard. Yet it still shot. Fact is several years later I was still getting good scores shooting the same barrel in CMP matches. Even got some fair scores shooting 1000 yard matches.

If you want a long shooting, accurate barrel, build your 30 tgt rifle using an un-used surplus M1919A4 Barrel.

As to the Carbine. I shoot my Underwood in the CMP's Carbine Matches. If you concentrate of accuracy, taking the extra second to confirm your sight picture, and breath properly while you shoot, the carbine will never get too hot.

Erno86 · September 11, 2018, 09:21 AM

For hi-power semi auto rapid firing strings...I would be concerned about burning out the barrel too quickly. Firing 20 rounds in a couple of minutes, for so often, can lead to throat erosion cracks just forward of the chamber in the bore.

I kinda follow the old saying --- "shoot a family of six" --- that is...shoot only 6 rounds in a rapid firing string of hi-power ammo (unless you're training or in competition and don't mind burning out the barrel). While at the range during practice...my rapid firing string will be limited to six rounds, because I don't want the barrel to reach past the 180 degree fahrenheit limit (which can fry an egg on metal, or with the barrel feeling too hot to touch), that is conducive too barrel burnout.

After I fire a six shot rapid fire string with hi-power ammo...I'll let the big gun cool, and switch to my 22 rimfire firearm or another centerfire.

T. O'Heir · September 11, 2018, 12:45 PM

"...20 rounds through it in less than a couple minutes..." Will do that. Isn't about it being a Carbine though. It's the 20 rounds rapid. Happens with a semi-auto .22, um, too.
Used to get the wood forestock of our FN C1A1's smouldering with 2 20 round mags rapid. Nothing abnormal about it.
"...We, won..." Nothing beats accurate rifle fire.

**4V50 Gary** · September 16, 2018, 10:05 AM

What Kraigway suggested.

BTW kraigway, thanks for the M1919A4 barrel suggestion.

September 10, 2018, 09:49 AM	#1
jackstrawIII Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2016 Location: Upstate NY. Posts: 901	M1 Carbine Overheating Hey, recently picked up a USGI M1 Carbine (Underwood) in good shape. It's a 1943 manufacture date, and runs and cycles great. Except... It heats up really, really fast. If I shoot 20 rounds through it in less than a couple minutes or so, the barrel and action will be so hot you can't really touch it for more than a second. I'm just shooting bulk Armscor Precision ammo, nothing too hot or high pressure. Guys who have some experience with these guns: - Is there some sort of lubrication protocol that will prevent this? - Should I be concerned, or is this normal and I just need to get over it? Thanks so much. __________________ In God we trust.

September 10, 2018, 11:14 AM	#6
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I'll admit to never noticing that my Carbine quickly gets hot. I used to shoot 3-gun with it, and it was common to shoot an average of a shot per second for 20-60 seconds; I must have just never put my hand on the barrel after a stage? I shoot nothing but handloads with IMR4227 powder. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

September 10, 2018, 11:20 AM	#7
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,812	The handguard is NOT just there for looks, you know... It's normal, expected and the design allows for it. Now, if your wood stock starts smoldering after only 20rnds, Then something is definitely not right. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 10, 2018, 12:45 PM	#8
jackstrawIII Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2016 Location: Upstate NY. Posts: 901	Davidsog, thanks for those links on maintenance and cleaning. Really useful!! __________________ In God we trust.

September 11, 2018, 07:28 AM	#12
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Military Rifles can take it: Years ago I was running a sniper school using M1C/Ds. We were using one of the machine gun ranges at Ft Richardson. A regular army LT showed up with a machine gun crew asking if they could use one end of the range to qualify the machine gunners. I let them qualify then afterword we had a little competition. Their M-60 against 4 of our snipers. Who could get the most targets down in a certain period of time. 400-900 yards. We, won. Instead of using one of our sniper rifles I used my personal DCM M1 Garand. It got so hot sap was boiling out of the handguard. Yet it still shot. Fact is several years later I was still getting good scores shooting the same barrel in CMP matches. Even got some fair scores shooting 1000 yard matches. If you want a long shooting, accurate barrel, build your 30 tgt rifle using an un-used surplus M1919A4 Barrel. As to the Carbine. I shoot my Underwood in the CMP's Carbine Matches. If you concentrate of accuracy, taking the extra second to confirm your sight picture, and breath properly while you shoot, the carbine will never get too hot. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

September 10, 2018, 10:01 AM	#2
davidsog Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Posts: 1,326	It was made for LSA. https://www.amazon.com/Rothco-G-I-LS.../dp/B01DMWL4K2 Overheating was not uncommon in service M1's.

September 10, 2018, 10:02 AM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Normal. Most loads for this gun use a ball powder and that adds even more to the heating. Any gun will get very hot to the touch after firing 20 rounds within a couple of minutes. Even my shotguns do that when shooting what they call "flush and flurries". One time I fired seventeen rounds in just under two minutes, and not thinking I grabbed my gun by the barrel to pick it up. I ended up with a big blister all the way across the palm of my hand. Lube is not really going to do much, if anything, to help with this.

September 10, 2018, 10:08 AM	#4
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	Normal. Back when it was designed it, like all weapons not meant to be machine guns weren't used for mag dumps. They were designed for aimed fire.

September 10, 2018, 10:11 AM	#5
davidsog Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Posts: 1,326	Section III covers cleaning and lubrication http://www.6thcorpscombatengineers.c...0%20M1%20).pdf This one has more detailed instructions with a list of specific areas to lube and a goes over the characteristics of various lubricants you can use on your weapon. http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR...m1_carbine.pdf

September 10, 2018, 01:03 PM	#9
davidsog Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Posts: 1,326	You are most welcome!

September 10, 2018, 06:44 PM	#10
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	What 44 AMP said.

September 11, 2018, 09:21 AM	#13
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	For hi-power semi auto rapid firing strings...I would be concerned about burning out the barrel too quickly. Firing 20 rounds in a couple of minutes, for so often, can lead to throat erosion cracks just forward of the chamber in the bore. I kinda follow the old saying --- "shoot a family of six" --- that is...shoot only 6 rounds in a rapid firing string of hi-power ammo (unless you're training or in competition and don't mind burning out the barrel). While at the range during practice...my rapid firing string will be limited to six rounds, because I don't want the barrel to reach past the 180 degree fahrenheit limit (which can fry an egg on metal, or with the barrel feeling too hot to touch), that is conducive too barrel burnout. After I fire a six shot rapid fire string with hi-power ammo...I'll let the big gun cool, and switch to my 22 rimfire firearm or another centerfire. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

September 11, 2018, 12:45 PM	#14
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...20 rounds through it in less than a couple minutes..." Will do that. Isn't about it being a Carbine though. It's the 20 rounds rapid. Happens with a semi-auto .22, um, too. Used to get the wood forestock of our FN C1A1's smouldering with 2 20 round mags rapid. Nothing abnormal about it. "...We, won..." Nothing beats accurate rifle fire. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 16, 2018, 10:05 AM	#15
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	What Kraigway suggested. BTW kraigway, thanks for the M1919A4 barrel suggestion. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*