Concealed vs. Open carry while hiking

cracked91 · February 23, 2009, 11:51 PM

What do you guys think of Open carry vs. Concealed carry when hiking. There are alot of factors to weigh in, for example a BG might leave you alone if he sees you have a gun, or he might wait till you are sleeping to do something. But if you are carrying concealed he might not be afraid to try to rob you in the first place? Some other info though for me it is a choice between a concealed Bersa .380 with no spare mag, a concealed P22 with 2 spare mags(I got my average reload time down to about 4 seconds), A openly carried S&W 66-5 .357 4", or an openly carried Springfield GI 1911 (no spare mags at the moment).

nazshooter · February 24, 2009, 01:00 AM

I only carry about half the time when out hiking but when I do I OC a Ruger P345. The way I see it, next to being aware of your surroundings the best thing you can do is not look like prey and I think the deterrent factor of OC is pretty high. Besides, if the BG isn't deterred by the fact that you are armed then you're probably going to want the larger caliber.

BTW. I've been noticing a lot more people carrying on the trails here in AZ lately, mostly revolvers.

KLRANGL · February 24, 2009, 01:03 AM

Yay for Virginia not allowing OC in state parks

chris in va · February 24, 2009, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Yay for Virginia not allowing OC in state parks

Where does it say that specifically? CC is allowed with permit...

Quote:

4VAC5-30-200. Firearms.

No person except employees, police officers, or officers of the department shall carry or possess firearms of any description, or airguns, within the park. This regulation shall not apply in areas designated for hunting by the Department of Conservation and Recreation. This regulation also shall not apply to the carrying of concealed handguns within state parks by holders of a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to § 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.

Statutory Authority

BTW here's something you may have missed. AG wrote VCDL back saying OC is fine in State Parks.

http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/08-043-Cuccinelli.pdf

Stevie-Ray · February 24, 2009, 02:45 PM

I always OC'd when hiking before I got my CPL. Now, I generally CC, but sometimes OC. See?

**OldMarksman** · February 24, 2009, 03:00 PM

I've seen a lot of comments here about the supposed deterrent value of open carry. I'd be interested in the bases of those comments.

A friend of mine who is a former policeman believes that a dangerous killer would simply take you out by surprise just to take your gun.

For me, were I to hike in an area in which I could carry openly, the decision to do so would be based on the choice of gun, and that choice would be driven by the fact that I don't like the idea of not having "enough gun." We have bears, feral pigs, wild dogs, and the worst human criminal element. A bigger gun would be my choice. And that indicates against CC.

Gazpacho · February 24, 2009, 05:02 PM

Carry concealed, always.

In general you will encounter fewer problems, if no one knows you are carrying a gun (assuming you have the legal right to do so).

In my (limited) experience, park rangers know even less about gun laws than the general public.

The only firearms I open carry in the wilderness are equiped with slings.

As an aside, Scandium, Titanium and Aluminum are a hiker's best friends.

troy_mclure · February 24, 2009, 06:15 PM

depends what kinda hiking im doing, and where.
if im just strolling thru the woods no pack, ill cc.
if ive got a pack and oc is legal, ill have a pistol strapped to my pack.
if oc is not legal, i have a quick access Velcro pouch in my pack thats just a bit slower than holster.

NavyLT · February 24, 2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

I've seen a lot of comments here about the supposed deterrent value of open carry.

I have never been accosted while open carrying, therefore, I am assuming it has deterred every thought of it by BG's.

How in the heck would you measure deterrment of an action? However, if you look at military strategy, deterrment by a visible show of possible retalitory force has always been the defensive strategy. The element of surprise has been reserved for offensive strategy.

chris in va · February 24, 2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

I'd be interested in the basis of those comments

OldMarksman, I've got one for you.

I know a guy in VA that went to deposit his check at a Suntrust bank near Richmond. He knows the tellers and was chatting with one of them when this guy comes in wearing a winter mask. He said the guy looked around nervously, saw his openly carried 1911, wrung his hands a few times and left.

KLRANGL · February 24, 2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Where does it say that specifically? CC is allowed with permit...

CC is allowed with permit, but I said OC... OC is not allowed as per state parks rules...

Quote:

BTW here's something you may have missed. AG wrote VCDL back saying OC is fine in State Parks.

Ive seen it, but the AG's opinion does not make it law. Right or wrong, the VA DCR website says firearms to be carried by concealed carry permit holders only.

cracked91 · February 25, 2009, 12:14 AM

Yeah I live in AZ too and when I go hiking on the rim with my friends I usually just pack my .357 on my waist but loaded the thing weighs in. The P22 I can't even feel wherever it is fully loaded, which is also why lately I have preferred it. There also seems to be an emotional issue with hikers on trails closer to the city, people seeing being carried by someone who does not look 35 or older seem to get uncomfortable (im 21 but I have been open carrying my revolver on the more remote trails since I was 17, here in az anyone 14-17 can carry a weapon as long as it is legal hunting or target shooting, so if anyone asked i was hunting.) But the main concern for me was mentioned above, if the BG sees your gun he might just wait till he can catch you with your guard down

nazshooter · February 25, 2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

I've seen a lot of comments here about the supposed deterrent value of open carry. I'd be interested in the bases of those comments.

On this and pretty much every other gun forum you'll find people recounting experiences where a BG backed off once the good guy displayed their gun. Beyond that, it just seems like common sense that criminals, just like any other predator prefer easy prey.

Quote:

A friend of mine who is a former policeman believes that a dangerous killer would simply take you out by surprise just to take your gun.

Well, that's the classic argument against OC but I've never heard of it actually happening, have you? Seems like a tough way to make a living.

One reason I prefer OC in the woods is that it's generally a lot faster to draw. The one and only time I ever felt threatened the guys never made any overt threats that would have justified me drawing but they were close enough that I probably couldn't have gotten to some zipper pouch on my pack if they'd tried anything. I could however get to a gun right there on my hip.

treo · February 25, 2009, 03:19 AM

I can't see how you could CC W/ a backpack in such away that the weapon would be readily available.

I'd hang the pistol right on the pack

The Great Mahoo · February 25, 2009, 08:25 AM

I generally carry concealed, simply because I find it a bit easier on me. My pack has a gun-pocket on it, so I just keep the gun in there. I carry a .45colt revolver N-Frame with some extra ammo, mostly.

I am in favor of open carry, I have just never done it much. Its just easier, in my oppinion, to have it in a ready-access spot on my pack, rather than bouncing on my hip while carrying gear. I suppose if I carried my smaller, daily CCW while hiking, I might be more inclined to keep it on my person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy_mclure

if oc is not legal, i have a quick access Velcro pouch in my pack thats just a bit slower than holster.

I'm curious as to what pack you have. I have a Camalbak Demon that has this kind of feature, but am wondering if there are other packs like this.

ActivShootr · February 25, 2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Carry concealed, always.

I can't think of a reason not to.

troy_mclure · February 25, 2009, 10:24 AM

great mahoo, i have a demon, and a swiss gear ruck that has a convenient pouch as well.

swman · February 25, 2009, 10:27 AM

Always carry concealed. Never show people what you really have.

NavyLT · February 25, 2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Carry concealed, always.

I can't think of a reason not to.

Because it is easier to deter an action from happening in the first place rather than defend against an action that is in the process of happening.

Glenn E. Meyer · February 25, 2009, 12:19 PM

I believe that Platt and Matix went to shooting areas in Florida and killed those folks for their cars and gear. So that's at least one case where the presence of guns was not a deterrent as compared to the surprise factor.

Also, the Hmong individual went and killed other armed hunters when he snapped.

Sparks2112 · February 25, 2009, 01:38 PM

The last time I went hiking I carried a .45 in a thigh holster, and a Glock 31 IWB under my jacket. Different tools for different problems and all...

armsmaster270 · February 25, 2009, 03:25 PM

I have always carried a mountain gun openly and a hideout CCW

coondogger · February 25, 2009, 04:00 PM

I spend a lot of time in the woods. I'm either hunting, scouting, fishing, or roving. During hunting season handgun carry isn't a factor. I'm already carrying a rifle or shotgun. But when fishing or scouting I generally open carry unless it's cold and I'm wearing a jacket. I carry not for protection against human predators (where I go, there usually aren't any), but for protection against rabid animals or just plain aggressive animals (which are rare).

deputy tom · February 26, 2009, 08:08 PM

swman said it right,"Always carry concealed. Never show people what you really have.".I don't even let them see my pocket knife clip.The element of supprize is worth ten fold.tom.

indiandave · February 27, 2009, 10:12 AM

Back in the 70's and 80's I did a lot of backpacking. I never carried a gun and never had a problem. Today the world is a different place. I would carry. I have a camara pack that sits in front of my waist. I would carry an Airweight revolver(S&W 642) plus a reload there. I use to be pretty fast with a camera. I think I could get my gun out fast. Every oz. counts going up hill so the little S&W would be light.It just seams the hills are longer and steeper today

February 23, 2009, 11:51 PM	#1
cracked91 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 385	Concealed vs. Open carry while hiking What do you guys think of Open carry vs. Concealed carry when hiking. There are alot of factors to weigh in, for example a BG might leave you alone if he sees you have a gun, or he might wait till you are sleeping to do something. But if you are carrying concealed he might not be afraid to try to rob you in the first place? Some other info though for me it is a choice between a concealed Bersa .380 with no spare mag, a concealed P22 with 2 spare mags(I got my average reload time down to about 4 seconds), A openly carried S&W 66-5 .357 4", or an openly carried Springfield GI 1911 (no spare mags at the moment).

February 24, 2009, 01:03 AM	#3
KLRANGL Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 958	Yay for Virginia not allowing OC in state parks __________________ And it's Killer Angel... as in the book

February 24, 2009, 02:45 PM	#5
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	I always OC'd when hiking before I got my CPL. Now, I generally CC, but sometimes OC. See? __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

February 24, 2009, 06:15 PM	#8
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	depends what kinda hiking im doing, and where. if im just strolling thru the woods no pack, ill cc. if ive got a pack and oc is legal, ill have a pistol strapped to my pack. if oc is not legal, i have a quick access Velcro pouch in my pack thats just a bit slower than holster. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

February 25, 2009, 10:24 AM	#17
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	great mahoo, i have a demon, and a swiss gear ruck that has a convenient pouch as well. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

February 24, 2009, 01:00 AM	#2
nazshooter Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2008 Posts: 151	I only carry about half the time when out hiking but when I do I OC a Ruger P345. The way I see it, next to being aware of your surroundings the best thing you can do is not look like prey and I think the deterrent factor of OC is pretty high. Besides, if the BG isn't deterred by the fact that you are armed then you're probably going to want the larger caliber. BTW. I've been noticing a lot more people carrying on the trails here in AZ lately, mostly revolvers.

February 24, 2009, 03:00 PM	#6
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	I've seen a lot of comments here about the supposed deterrent value of open carry. I'd be interested in the bases of those comments. A friend of mine who is a former policeman believes that a dangerous killer would simply take you out by surprise just to take your gun. For me, were I to hike in an area in which I could carry openly, the decision to do so would be based on the choice of gun, and that choice would be driven by the fact that I don't like the idea of not having "enough gun." We have bears, feral pigs, wild dogs, and the worst human criminal element. A bigger gun would be my choice. And that indicates against CC.

February 24, 2009, 05:02 PM	#7
Gazpacho Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2004 Posts: 592	Carry concealed, always. In general you will encounter fewer problems, if no one knows you are carrying a gun (assuming you have the legal right to do so). In my (limited) experience, park rangers know even less about gun laws than the general public. The only firearms I open carry in the wilderness are equiped with slings. As an aside, Scandium, Titanium and Aluminum are a hiker's best friends.

February 25, 2009, 12:14 AM	#12
cracked91 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 385	Yeah I live in AZ too and when I go hiking on the rim with my friends I usually just pack my .357 on my waist but loaded the thing weighs in. The P22 I can't even feel wherever it is fully loaded, which is also why lately I have preferred it. There also seems to be an emotional issue with hikers on trails closer to the city, people seeing being carried by someone who does not look 35 or older seem to get uncomfortable (im 21 but I have been open carrying my revolver on the more remote trails since I was 17, here in az anyone 14-17 can carry a weapon as long as it is legal hunting or target shooting, so if anyone asked i was hunting.) But the main concern for me was mentioned above, if the BG sees your gun he might just wait till he can catch you with your guard down

February 25, 2009, 03:19 AM	#14
treo Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2008 Posts: 22	I can't see how you could CC W/ a backpack in such away that the weapon would be readily available. I'd hang the pistol right on the pack

February 25, 2009, 10:27 AM	#18
swman Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 152	Always carry concealed. Never show people what you really have.

February 25, 2009, 12:19 PM	#20
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I believe that Platt and Matix went to shooting areas in Florida and killed those folks for their cars and gear. So that's at least one case where the presence of guns was not a deterrent as compared to the surprise factor. Also, the Hmong individual went and killed other armed hunters when he snapped. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

February 25, 2009, 01:38 PM	#21
Sparks2112 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 479	The last time I went hiking I carried a .45 in a thigh holster, and a Glock 31 IWB under my jacket. Different tools for different problems and all... __________________ -- Sparks AKA J.M. Johnston

February 25, 2009, 03:25 PM	#22
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	I have always carried a mountain gun openly and a hideout CCW __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

February 25, 2009, 04:00 PM	#23
coondogger Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Posts: 120	I spend a lot of time in the woods. I'm either hunting, scouting, fishing, or roving. During hunting season handgun carry isn't a factor. I'm already carrying a rifle or shotgun. But when fishing or scouting I generally open carry unless it's cold and I'm wearing a jacket. I carry not for protection against human predators (where I go, there usually aren't any), but for protection against rabid animals or just plain aggressive animals (which are rare). __________________ Tu ne cede malis

February 26, 2009, 08:08 PM	#24
deputy tom Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2002 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 753	swman said it right,"Always carry concealed. Never show people what you really have.".I don't even let them see my pocket knife clip.The element of supprize is worth ten fold.tom. __________________ N.R.A.LIFE MEMBER Thank Goodness we're back on line. An end will come on the world, but love and music will endure. Thig crioch air an t-saoghail, ach mairidh gaol 's ceol. Old Scottish Gaelic proverb

February 27, 2009, 10:12 AM	#25
indiandave Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 214	Back in the 70's and 80's I did a lot of backpacking. I never carried a gun and never had a problem. Today the world is a different place. I would carry. I have a camara pack that sits in front of my waist. I would carry an Airweight revolver(S&W 642) plus a reload there. I use to be pretty fast with a camera. I think I could get my gun out fast. Every oz. counts going up hill so the little S&W would be light.It just seams the hills are longer and steeper today