Have you Killed Whitetail with the 223Cal. rifle?

sureshots · May 21, 2008, 11:10 AM

Have you ever killed A whitetail deer with A rifle using the 223Caliber Cart. If so can you tell us about it.

Dezynco · May 21, 2008, 11:51 AM

I haven't personally, but I know folks that swear by them. I just feel that you should hunt deer with a larger caliber, at least a 243. It's just more "sportsmanly". There's always a chance that that little 22 caliber bullet, traveling so fast, might explode rather than penetrate - causing a cripple.

I just don't have faith in the small calibers.

rr2241tx · May 21, 2008, 11:52 AM

.223 Remington with a 55gr bullet is a very accurate and deadly whitetail round. Here's the deal: you either take good aim or you may be tracking without a decent blood trail for quite a distance. A head or neck shot from 200 yards is perfectly easy if you have a decent scope or decent iron sights and practice a little. Your deer will be dead before the sound gets there. Heart/lung shots usually result in a 3-4 second dash-n-crash, but a whitetail can cover a lot of ground in that time. There may not be any blood trail. Gut shots may take overnight to kill and that deer is not going to be fit to eat, even if you do find it before the coyotes get to it.

EBR with military sights are generally not up to the task because of poor quality sights. Beyond 200 yards, the round does not impart enough energy for a clean kill with a lung shot and the cone of probability is too large to bother with a head shot.

The vast majority of whitetails killed by hunters are taken at a range of 100 yards or less, so mostly I am of the opinion that in a quality rifle capable of 2MOA or better the .223 Remington is adequate. My sons and my dad all shoot .223 or .222 Remingtons and tag out every year without losing wounded animals. I carry a .222 Remington now and then and have never had a deer take a step after I pulled the trigger. But that's not fair because I grew up killing deer with a .218 Bee and iron sights.

rr2241tx

JP Sarte · May 21, 2008, 12:49 PM

Michigan doesn't allow it but even if they did the minimum I would use would be the .243 Win.

JP

Picher · May 21, 2008, 02:39 PM

Southern deer are smaller than their northern cousins. In Maine I think the .243 Win, using 100 grain bullets is the minimum that should be used, but the .223 Rem is legal.

Picher

DoctorXring · May 21, 2008, 02:43 PM

I have killed many Texas whitetails with a .223 Remington.
All inside of 200 yards. About half were head shots on does.
The others heart/lung shots. Total, I would estimate around
30 head. None went far. None lost.

Until the Nosler 60 grain Partition in this caliber came out,
I used the Nosler 60 grain Solid Base. Today I would use
the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.

If you are going to use the 223 Remington on deer I would
only use a Premium bullet. Right now the best bullet in
this caliber available is the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.
The Nosler Partition is also very good. If you cannot use
a controlled expansion type bullet, FORGET ABOUT THE
.223 Remington for deer, unless it is a chipping wedge distance
head shot on a doe and you are a good shot.

Limit your range to inside of 200 yards. Make a good shot with a
good bullet and the deer will be taken cleanly.

dxr

ClassicSWC · May 21, 2008, 02:57 PM

IMO, it dishonors the animal and the sport to use such a cartridge for deer. The .223 was not designed or meant for deer hunting. There are plenty of other sensible cartridges out there.

boltgun71 · May 21, 2008, 03:10 PM

I personally don't or would, but a buddy I went to high school with uses a Mini-14 in .223 to deer hunt with. I know he has taken at least five whitetails with it and never lost a one that I am aware of. He uses 64gr Winchester PowerPoint bullets in it.

RockyMtnTactical · May 21, 2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

There's always a chance that that little 22 caliber bullet, traveling so fast, might explode rather than penetrate - causing a cripple.

There's not much of a chance it will "explode" if you use the proper bullet for the job.

Rembrandt · May 21, 2008, 05:50 PM

.223 bounces off big bodied Iowa Whitetails......(and that's just the fawns)

hps1 · May 21, 2008, 06:21 PM

I'm a firm believer in "use enough gun". Having said that, I have killed two does and a 200 # hog W/an AR and did not feel a bit handicapped. All were within 125 yards. The does were shot in spine and the hog behind the ear; as expected, all dropped in their tracks.

Not my preferred whitetail medicine, but under the right conditions, the .223 is ample. Shot placement is primary concern.

Regards,
hps

Swampghost · May 21, 2008, 06:50 PM

As said, placement is everything. A .22 Mag can drop most anything that we run up against.

Back in '77 we hopped up the rounds enough to crack the reciever on a Mini-14. They were also VERY fatal to local deer (small) and had exit wounds that scattered good meat all over the swamp.

Using factory rounds inside of 100 yds. with good placement should drop any deer. With the very low recoil, placement shouldn't be a problem. Yeah, I pull a shot or two on the range just because I know what's coming with big bores. When hunting, I'm dialed into the animal.

308sc · May 21, 2008, 06:51 PM

If it will kill a human it will kill a deer, most calibers used on deer are overkill, you don't need a .300 WM to kill a deer. but I would use a .243 or some 6mm caliber for more room for error in shot placement.

pbrktrt · May 21, 2008, 07:01 PM

jp, i used to believe the same thing till i read last years rules. it now reads any centerfire may be used in the rifle zone. don't know if that's good or bad.

**44 AMP** · May 21, 2008, 10:24 PM

For every sportsman out there willing to take the time to take only a good shot, spend the money to use a bullet built for the game, and do their best to kill cleanly, there are the "slob hunters" who will take any shot offered, use the cheapest ammo, and seldom adhere to the general rules of sport hunting.

For decades, .22 cal rifles (centerfire) were only varmint rounds, and bullets suitable for deer were few and far between. Many states decided that while it could be done well, it was seldom done well with a .22 CF, and people being what they are, if allowed there would be a lot more crippled and wounded deer dying without actually being harvested. So they chose to mandate a larger caliber round for sporting use. Most states have a minimum of .24 caliber for deer.

Game laws have nothing to do with what will actually work to kill the animals, they have everything to do with what is considered "sporting".

I have not personally taken deer with a .22 centerfire, as I have not hunted anywhere it was legal to do so. There is no doubt in my mind that any .22 with the rigfht bullet for the game, and within its effective range will cleanly kill a deer with correct shot placement. If I had to hunt deer with a .22 Hornet, I would, and have no worries about it failing, so long as I did my part. I wouldn't be taking no 300 yds shots with it though!

globemaster3 · May 21, 2008, 10:38 PM

Sureshots, some friends and I used nothing but .223 in a range of weaponry from bolt to autos to depredate hogs in FL when I was in hs and college. Since the hide there is tougher than deer, I can only assume better results.

If we put the bullet where it needed to go, the hog went down. There was the errant snafu once in a while that required a follow up shot or some tracking,

but those were rare, and we never lost one that was hit.

Its all about knowing your equipment and capabilities. Personally, I carry a .243 or .308 nowadays to have a little more power and insurance when I fall short of delivering my part of the equation, which doesn't happen very often.

Pay good attention to cartridge selection. Work toward the heavier bullets, but also ensure you've got a twist rate in the barrel that will stabilize them for accuracy. If you are unsure at all about your ability to be exacting in bullet placement or patience to wait for that shot, I'd suggest going bigger.

DoctorXring · May 21, 2008, 10:52 PM

This is an interesting article about bullet penetration
and defeating bones on impact.

There is a section about the 60 grain Nosler Partition
bullet.

http://www.gunsandhunting.com/Bullethitsbone.html

I'm not recommending the use of the .223 Remington for deer
for all, just saying it will do the job. If I did not think it would and
there was any chance of failure, I would not have used it on
all those deer I have shot. When I anticipated any shot longer
than 150 yards, I would take my 6.5x55.

"Killing Power" of firearms is more about accuracy than
caliber and raw velocity. Bullet construction is also primary.

i.e. A .223 Remington loaded with 40 grain varmint bullets
would be a poor choice indeed.

Dezynco · May 21, 2008, 11:17 PM

Personally, I'd rather have at least a 7mm, to give myself room for tree limbs, thick grass, wind, etc. I mostly use a 30 cal. for deer hunting. Here in Mississpi, I usually don't have a "perfect" shot. Too much brush.

Big and slow will win out over fast and light, I also shoot BPCR. The BIG bullets will go 1000 yards + with predictability.

freakshow10mm · May 21, 2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Michigan doesn't allow it but even if they did

Wrong. Michigan allows ANY centerfire cartridge for deer hunting. Read the regs.

I have killed numerous deer with a .223. I use Win 64gr PP and they do a great job.

The .223 has at least the same KE as the .44 Magnum, a cartridge suggested for deer by many hunters. A .223 (5.56) will kill a 200 pound human as well as a 200 pound deer. You can kill both quickly with a well placed shot.

armedtotheteeth · May 22, 2008, 06:33 AM

I killed 4 deer with mY Ar-15 last year. All head shots, all died right there where they stood. I use Vmaxs, shoot them in the ear, or top of the skull. my other workhorse rifle ( Ar-30) tends to tear up many many tasty pieces of meatses. Know your regs. know your shot. 1300 foot pounds of energy is plenty plenty to kill a deer. A 223 has about 5 times the energy of a bow. Bows have killed deer for millions of years.

freakshow10mm · May 22, 2008, 08:35 AM

The wounding mechanisms between arrows and bullets differ greatly. When lacerating tissue, you don't need much energy.

JP Sarte · May 22, 2008, 09:34 AM

pbrktrt:

I am stunned. I guess I need to do some homework.

JP

thallub · May 22, 2008, 04:10 PM

My CZ 527 in .223 is a sure fire hog killer with M193 military ball. They usually drop as if struck by lightning. Never had one go more than 60 yards after being hit.

retrieverman · May 22, 2008, 04:59 PM

To answer the initial question, yes, my sons and I have all killed several deer with a 223 using 55 gr soft point bullets, and whether they were shot in the shoulder or the neck, none traveled over 20 yards.

**I will clarify that I do not "advocate" the use of 223 on deer because the margin of error is very small, but it can be used successfully in a pinch.**

BurkGlocker · May 23, 2008, 03:24 AM

Never have used the .223 Remmy, BUT... I have used my .220 Swift and taken numerous deer with it. Loaded up with 60 gr Hornady soft points, I havent had a deer one run on me (yet

), just crumple... But as was said earlier, shot placement is crucial. all of my shots were in the neck. My father used a 22-250 for years for his choice deer round, but that was on our 'small' Texas deer.

(Still would like to see how the Partition works on the deer though....)

May 21, 2008, 11:10 AM	#1
sureshots Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Piedmont,NC Posts: 464	Have you Killed Whitetail with the 223Cal. rifle? Have you ever killed A whitetail deer with A rifle using the 223Caliber Cart. If so can you tell us about it. Last edited by sureshots; May 21, 2008 at 04:24 PM.

May 21, 2008, 06:21 PM	#11
hps1 Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 425	I'm a firm believer in "use enough gun". Having said that, I have killed two does and a 200 # hog W/an AR and did not feel a bit handicapped. All were within 125 yards. The does were shot in spine and the hog behind the ear; as expected, all dropped in their tracks. Not my preferred whitetail medicine, but under the right conditions, the .223 is ample. Shot placement is primary concern. Regards, hps __________________ Gun Owners note: The Second Amendment is not about hunting! Join NRA @: http://membership.nrahq.org/

May 21, 2008, 10:24 PM	#15
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	There is good reason many states do not allow .22 cal for deer For every sportsman out there willing to take the time to take only a good shot, spend the money to use a bullet built for the game, and do their best to kill cleanly, there are the "slob hunters" who will take any shot offered, use the cheapest ammo, and seldom adhere to the general rules of sport hunting. For decades, .22 cal rifles (centerfire) were only varmint rounds, and bullets suitable for deer were few and far between. Many states decided that while it could be done well, it was seldom done well with a .22 CF, and people being what they are, if allowed there would be a lot more crippled and wounded deer dying without actually being harvested. So they chose to mandate a larger caliber round for sporting use. Most states have a minimum of .24 caliber for deer. Game laws have nothing to do with what will actually work to kill the animals, they have everything to do with what is considered "sporting". I have not personally taken deer with a .22 centerfire, as I have not hunted anywhere it was legal to do so. There is no doubt in my mind that any .22 with the rigfht bullet for the game, and within its effective range will cleanly kill a deer with correct shot placement. If I had to hunt deer with a .22 Hornet, I would, and have no worries about it failing, so long as I did my part. I wouldn't be taking no 300 yds shots with it though! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 21, 2008, 10:52 PM	#17
DoctorXring Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2002 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 392	.223 This is an interesting article about bullet penetration and defeating bones on impact. There is a section about the 60 grain Nosler Partition bullet. http://www.gunsandhunting.com/Bullethitsbone.html I'm not recommending the use of the .223 Remington for deer for all, just saying it will do the job. If I did not think it would and there was any chance of failure, I would not have used it on all those deer I have shot. When I anticipated any shot longer than 150 yards, I would take my 6.5x55. "Killing Power" of firearms is more about accuracy than caliber and raw velocity. Bullet construction is also primary. i.e. A .223 Remington loaded with 40 grain varmint bullets would be a poor choice indeed.

May 23, 2008, 03:24 AM	#25
BurkGlocker Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2008 Location: Sheppard AFB, TX Posts: 568	Never have used the .223 Remmy, BUT... I have used my .220 Swift and taken numerous deer with it. Loaded up with 60 gr Hornady soft points, I havent had a deer one run on me (yet), just crumple... But as was said earlier, shot placement is crucial. all of my shots were in the neck. My father used a 22-250 for years for his choice deer round, but that was on our 'small' Texas deer. (Still would like to see how the Partition works on the deer though....)

May 21, 2008, 11:51 AM	#2
Dezynco Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2008 Posts: 401	I haven't personally, but I know folks that swear by them. I just feel that you should hunt deer with a larger caliber, at least a 243. It's just more "sportsmanly". There's always a chance that that little 22 caliber bullet, traveling so fast, might explode rather than penetrate - causing a cripple. I just don't have faith in the small calibers.

May 21, 2008, 11:52 AM	#3
rr2241tx Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2007 Location: The Great State of Taxes Posts: 267	.223 Remington with a 55gr bullet is a very accurate and deadly whitetail round. Here's the deal: you either take good aim or you may be tracking without a decent blood trail for quite a distance. A head or neck shot from 200 yards is perfectly easy if you have a decent scope or decent iron sights and practice a little. Your deer will be dead before the sound gets there. Heart/lung shots usually result in a 3-4 second dash-n-crash, but a whitetail can cover a lot of ground in that time. There may not be any blood trail. Gut shots may take overnight to kill and that deer is not going to be fit to eat, even if you do find it before the coyotes get to it. EBR with military sights are generally not up to the task because of poor quality sights. Beyond 200 yards, the round does not impart enough energy for a clean kill with a lung shot and the cone of probability is too large to bother with a head shot. The vast majority of whitetails killed by hunters are taken at a range of 100 yards or less, so mostly I am of the opinion that in a quality rifle capable of 2MOA or better the .223 Remington is adequate. My sons and my dad all shoot .223 or .222 Remingtons and tag out every year without losing wounded animals. I carry a .222 Remington now and then and have never had a deer take a step after I pulled the trigger. But that's not fair because I grew up killing deer with a .218 Bee and iron sights. rr2241tx

May 21, 2008, 12:49 PM	#4
JP Sarte Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 229	Michigan doesn't allow it but even if they did the minimum I would use would be the .243 Win. JP

May 21, 2008, 02:39 PM	#5
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	Southern deer are smaller than their northern cousins. In Maine I think the .243 Win, using 100 grain bullets is the minimum that should be used, but the .223 Rem is legal. Picher

May 21, 2008, 02:43 PM	#6
DoctorXring Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2002 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 392	I have killed many Texas whitetails with a .223 Remington. All inside of 200 yards. About half were head shots on does. The others heart/lung shots. Total, I would estimate around 30 head. None went far. None lost. Until the Nosler 60 grain Partition in this caliber came out, I used the Nosler 60 grain Solid Base. Today I would use the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. If you are going to use the 223 Remington on deer I would only use a Premium bullet. Right now the best bullet in this caliber available is the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. The Nosler Partition is also very good. If you cannot use a controlled expansion type bullet, FORGET ABOUT THE .223 Remington for deer, unless it is a chipping wedge distance head shot on a doe and you are a good shot. Limit your range to inside of 200 yards. Make a good shot with a good bullet and the deer will be taken cleanly. dxr

May 21, 2008, 02:57 PM	#7
ClassicSWC Member Join Date: April 18, 2007 Posts: 59	IMO, it dishonors the animal and the sport to use such a cartridge for deer. The .223 was not designed or meant for deer hunting. There are plenty of other sensible cartridges out there.

May 21, 2008, 03:10 PM	#8
boltgun71 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 547	I personally don't or would, but a buddy I went to high school with uses a Mini-14 in .223 to deer hunt with. I know he has taken at least five whitetails with it and never lost a one that I am aware of. He uses 64gr Winchester PowerPoint bullets in it.

May 21, 2008, 05:50 PM	#10
Rembrandt Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 2,108	.223 bounces off big bodied Iowa Whitetails......(and that's just the fawns)

May 21, 2008, 06:50 PM	#12
Swampghost Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: Florida, east coast Posts: 2,106	As said, placement is everything. A .22 Mag can drop most anything that we run up against. Back in '77 we hopped up the rounds enough to crack the reciever on a Mini-14. They were also VERY fatal to local deer (small) and had exit wounds that scattered good meat all over the swamp. Using factory rounds inside of 100 yds. with good placement should drop any deer. With the very low recoil, placement shouldn't be a problem. Yeah, I pull a shot or two on the range just because I know what's coming with big bores. When hunting, I'm dialed into the animal.

May 21, 2008, 06:51 PM	#13
308sc Member Join Date: April 1, 2008 Location: Elgin, South Carolina Posts: 30	If it will kill a human it will kill a deer, most calibers used on deer are overkill, you don't need a .300 WM to kill a deer. but I would use a .243 or some 6mm caliber for more room for error in shot placement.

May 21, 2008, 07:01 PM	#14
pbrktrt Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2008 Posts: 313	jp, i used to believe the same thing till i read last years rules. it now reads any centerfire may be used in the rifle zone. don't know if that's good or bad.

May 21, 2008, 10:38 PM	#16
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	Sureshots, some friends and I used nothing but .223 in a range of weaponry from bolt to autos to depredate hogs in FL when I was in hs and college. Since the hide there is tougher than deer, I can only assume better results. If we put the bullet where it needed to go, the hog went down. There was the errant snafu once in a while that required a follow up shot or some tracking, but those were rare, and we never lost one that was hit. Its all about knowing your equipment and capabilities. Personally, I carry a .243 or .308 nowadays to have a little more power and insurance when I fall short of delivering my part of the equation, which doesn't happen very often. Pay good attention to cartridge selection. Work toward the heavier bullets, but also ensure you've got a twist rate in the barrel that will stabilize them for accuracy. If you are unsure at all about your ability to be exacting in bullet placement or patience to wait for that shot, I'd suggest going bigger.

May 21, 2008, 11:17 PM	#18
Dezynco Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2008 Posts: 401	Personally, I'd rather have at least a 7mm, to give myself room for tree limbs, thick grass, wind, etc. I mostly use a 30 cal. for deer hunting. Here in Mississpi, I usually don't have a "perfect" shot. Too much brush. Big and slow will win out over fast and light, I also shoot BPCR. The BIG bullets will go 1000 yards + with predictability.

May 22, 2008, 06:33 AM	#20
armedtotheteeth Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2005 Location: podunk, Texas Posts: 1,610	I killed 4 deer with mY Ar-15 last year. All head shots, all died right there where they stood. I use Vmaxs, shoot them in the ear, or top of the skull. my other workhorse rifle ( Ar-30) tends to tear up many many tasty pieces of meatses. Know your regs. know your shot. 1300 foot pounds of energy is plenty plenty to kill a deer. A 223 has about 5 times the energy of a bow. Bows have killed deer for millions of years.

May 22, 2008, 08:35 AM	#21
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	The wounding mechanisms between arrows and bullets differ greatly. When lacerating tissue, you don't need much energy.

May 22, 2008, 09:34 AM	#22
JP Sarte Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 229	pbrktrt: I am stunned. I guess I need to do some homework. JP

May 22, 2008, 04:10 PM	#23
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	My CZ 527 in .223 is a sure fire hog killer with M193 military ball. They usually drop as if struck by lightning. Never had one go more than 60 yards after being hit.

May 22, 2008, 04:59 PM	#24
retrieverman Member Join Date: August 20, 2007 Posts: 46	To answer the initial question, yes, my sons and I have all killed several deer with a 223 using 55 gr soft point bullets, and whether they were shot in the shoulder or the neck, none traveled over 20 yards. I will clarify that I do not "advocate" the use of 223 on deer because the margin of error is very small, but it can be used successfully in a pinch.