What is a "Car Gun?"

[Gary L. Griffiths]

In another thread I asked about an AR-15 pistol in .300 Blk for a “car gun.” One of the members replied that it might be useful to define a “car gun,” so I will throw out some characteristics of what I consider to be a “car gun.”

To me, a “car gun” bridges the gap between a routinely carried concealed weapon and a full-fledged battle weapon. It’s purpose is to defend the owner and his or her family and friends from a concerted assault on the vehicle by multiple assailants while traveling, whether from inside the vehicle or if forced from the vehicle by a violent mob. It should have, nominally, 100 rds of ammunition loaded into magazines. It differs from a “truck gun,” (e.g., a “thuty-thuty” Winchester, AR-15, riot-type shotgun, or even .22 rifle) which is more oriented towards rural applications, such as predator/pest control, or putting down a wounded animal.

I would postulate four categories of car guns: (1) Battle Pistol, (2) Rifle-Caliber Pistol, (3) Pistol-Caliber Carbine, and (4) Carbine. Here are what I perceive as advantages and disadvantages of each:

Battle Pistol: A high-capacity full-sized 9mm pistol, such as a Springfield XD, Glock 17, Beretta 92, Sig 226, etc. For those who routinely carry, say, a Glock 19 or Springfield Xdm, it may suffice simply to have extended capacity magazines available in the car for emergency use. Advantages: Easiest to conceal/secure in the vehicle. Quickest to deploy, although probably not quickly enough to counter a sudden car-jacking. May be kept loaded in vehicle if one has a concealed carry permit. Disadvantages: Least intimidating. It’s just a pistol. A violent mob may be emboldened to attack, even if they see a 33-rd magazine hanging out the butt of a Glock. This is the one instance where something on the order of a Tec-9 be useful, assuming it can be made to fire reliably. Least accurate in case one is forced to engage an armed assailant in the midst of a mob. Least stopping power.

Rifle-Caliber Pistol: An AR-15, Draco, “Enforcer” M-1 Carbine pistol, etc. Advantages: Easier to conceal/secure/deploy than full-sized carbines. Very intimidating. A violent mob is likely to perceive the pistol as a submachine gun. Fairly powerful. A .223, .300 Blk, 7.62x39, or .30 Carbine cartridge, even fired from a short barrel, packs more punch than a 9mm making it more likely to stop assailants with fewer hits. Can be fired more accurately than a pistol, especially if equipped with a red-dot sight. May be kept loaded in vehicle if one has a concealed carry permit. Disadvantages: Less easy to secure/deploy than pistols. Severe muzzle blast. Still, winding up D-E-A-F is better than winding up D-E-A-D!

Pistol-Caliber Carbine: A Kel-Tec Sub 2000, Hi-Point Carbine, Beretta CX-4 Storm, etc. To me, most of the disadvantages of a rifle-caliber pistol, with most of the disadvantages of a pistol. YMMV. Advantages: Fairly intimidating. Appears to be a long arm, at least, if not a sub-gun. Less muzzle blast than rifle-caliber pistols. Can be fired more accurately than a pistol. The Kel-Tec can be folded to be more easily concealed/secured. Disadvantages: Less easy to secure/deploy than pistols. Less stopping power than rifle-caliber pistols, albeit slightly more than regular pistols.

Carbine: AR-15s, “M-4geries”, M-1 Carbines, AK-47 variants, etc. Advantages: Can be fired more accurately and at longer range than any of the other types, although long-range accuracy is of dubious value in a self-defense situation. Most powerful. Very intimidating – again, mobs may be cowed by the “assault rifle” mystique. Disadvantages: Least easy to conceal/secure/deploy, especially from within a vehicle.

Just my take on the “car gun” concept. Hopefully, will spark a few ideas for those looking into this category.

[Aguila Blanca]

I don't think "car gun" charecterizes any particular caliber or classification of firearm. To me, a "car gun" is a reliable old beater of a gun that you don't mind leaving in the car all the time -- meaning it's going to be bounced around, probably get scratched, be subjected to temperature and humidity extremes and therefore probably to rust -- but, like the proverbial Timex watch, it "takes a lickin' but keeps on tickin'."

For me, where I live, a car gun would be a 1911. I notice your four categories completely overlook handguns.

[southjk]

Around here a "car gun" is a gun that is going to be unwillingly donated to the local youths to be used in their criminal activities.

[Gary L. Griffiths]

I notice your four categories completely overlook handguns.

Apparently you didn't bother to actually read my post. First category was, "Battle Pistol."

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Interesting discussion. And after reading the same twenty discussions for 17 years now, that's saying something!

While I think most people picture a "car gun" as a pistol they leave in their vehicle in case they need a gun, I've never thought of it that way because I carry a pistol with me and have for awhile now. By and large, I am not a fan of leaving firearms in vehicles because a steel and fiberglass container with giant glass windows on four sides is not super secure.

So, in a typical situation, the only thing the car has is a high capacity magazine or two for the pistol on my hip. However, as we discussed in the other thread, in other parts of the world, roadblocks or literal highway robbery isn't unusual - especially of refugees fleeing a conflict zone. In that type of situation, a firearm that lets you control a 200m or so area, that is still maneuverable from inside a vehicle, and has decent performance against barriers (steel, autoglass, other vehicles) is very handy. When I think of a "car gun", that is what I think of.

The current political roadblocks in the U.S. aren't really in that same category; but there is certainly the potential for them to move in a disturbing direction.

I think several firearms could serve that role well, although having stood on the running board of an SUV shooting at poppers from 3-50yds in order to clear space to access my rifle, I found some problems with the "battle pistol" concept (although ironically, I nailed the longest range target with the first shot, one handed, and with Ashley express sights on the first run through - that was an anomaly though.)

[Berserker]

Probably a 38, or something small, cause men drive trucks.

As said a knock around gun, that you don't care alot about. I think of handguns. But in some areas it could be a rifle for problem animals.

Midwest, I am going to say handgun for protection from people. Out west maybe rifle to deal problems on the farm or ranch.


But again, I think compact size, and not a pretty gun you worry about getting scratched or stolen.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Gry L. Griffiths

Apparently you didn't bother to actually read my post. First category was, "Battle Pistol."

Actually, I did read the entire post, but obviously too quickly. The mind plays strange tricks -- I saw "Battle" and simply wrote that category off as a long gun classification, since to my mind there's no such thing as a "battle pistol."

[osbornk]

I would picture one as a rough but reliable 38 special revolver with a 4" barrel.

[Gary L. Griffiths]

Actually, I did read the entire post, but obviously too quickly.

Thought something like that. Your posts are usually cogent and far from snarky!

[JoeSixpack]

For me a "car gun" "truck gun" is the same thing.. and It really boils down to 2 possibilities.
A gun you use inside the car, and a gun that lives in the car but is not necessarily for use inside the car.

The first would be a sort of "anti carjacking gun" you might mount it in a holster under the dash or something, I have a bit of a problem drawing from the hip when sitting.. Cross draw and shoulder holsters work better but is not my preference day to day.

Honestly I have no real need for this type of gun because im nearly always with my carry gun which is a Taurus 99 (92 w/adj sights)
and/or my soon to be range tested Taurus 709 mouse gun.

But If I was picking a gun of this type (anti carjacking) It would probably be a Taurus Judge in .410/45LC


Now what I REALLY think of for a car gun is some sort of long arm that would supplement my sidearm, If there was some sort of disaster and I could not get home I'd have either an extra gun for a friend/family/coworker, or just extra firepower for my self.

Now my primary carry would already fit into the "battle pistol" category so no need to duplicate that and even if I was just carrying the mouse gun I still don't think I'd bother with a 2nd conventional pistol..

I thought the AR15 pistol w/red dot on top and single point sling would be a quite handy, but the buffer tube sticks out so in this "rifle caliber pistol" idea I would rather have a mini-draco, or a keltec plr16

A lot of firepower in a reasonably compact and quite possibility concealable package, I currently have neither of the 3 guns I just mentioned although I am building a ar15 pistol.. and I have wanted a mini draco for some time but just have had bigger first to fry so far.

The Keltec sub 2000 would make a nice car gun because it can fold in half and could potentially just be stuffed in a back pack for concealment.

The problem here is cost.. I share Bartholomew Roberts concern about theft.
So the gun would need to be exceedingly cheap.. like under 300 bucks.
While not my 1# choice I can think of only 1 gun that would fit my goals within reason.. a maverick 88.. can be had for less then 200 bucks.

Add in a few cheap shell belts for quick access, toss on a ATI folding stock and you're in business.
I would probably conceal it by stashing it near the speakers under the rear window.. tie it up with heavy Velcro straps and anyone breaking in the trunk would not normally see the gun from standing angle.

Probably not the most concealable thing even with a folding stock but might be doable with a long coat.

The nice thing about 12ga is they also apparently make signal flares for them.

Of course I'd stash some canned goods and water, medkit, flash light and some batteries, map, radio and a pack to carry it all.

I already have 2 way "GMRS" radios.. the cheap "family radios" not great but good for about a mile in the open. As well as emergency blankets in the car.

So ya for me the "car gun" would be a supplemental gun for travel or just day-2-day "just in case".
Would not be quick access, my handgun would be the 1st 'goto' gun in a split second situation.

My goal is most situations would be to just get me "home", or if things are really bad just keep me safe till things blow over (if temporary).

[FAS1]

To me, car gun = stolen gun.

[Texas45]

Why anyone would "leave a gun" or "store a gun" in their car is beyond me.
Me car gun is on my hip when I get in and still there when I get out. My car doesnt know how to operate it so I dont see any sensible reason that it needs to hold on to it.

I do however let all my vehicles store a spare mag for MY gun for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Excoastie]

I have a Taurus PT111 G2 that I picked up spefically to use as "Jeep gun" for when I'm unable to take my EDC with me, such as to and from work (work has a strict no weapons policy), etc.

When I am home, I bring it back in the house so it's not left in the Jeep. When I go somewhere that I'm not able to carry, I lock it in my Tuffy lock box, which is a secure storage compartment bolted down inside the vehicle designed to keep your "valuables" secure in a vehicle that isn't hard to break into


Exco

[Badgerstate]

To me, a car gun is something that fits in your glovebox. Any non-compact handgun fits the bill for me in that regard.

[KyJim]

I also am hesitant to leave a gun in a car. However, assuming I did so, I might consider a Mossberg 590 with the Shockwave Raptor grip, especially in urban areas. And yes it is non-NFA. Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_sqSTg2v8.

Probably the only gun you could carry in the car that would be more intimidating than an "evil assault rifle/carbine." Deadly at closer ranges. A little unwieldy sitting in the car but that's why you carry a pistol, right?

Never shot one but everything I've seen on the Internet says it is far superior in controlling recoil than the pistol-style grip on the Mossberg Persuaders. So, gotta' take this as gospel.

[pete2]

I don't know about shooting cars, hunting buddy of mine killed a GMC pickup with a 30 06, shot it in the transmission. True story.

[KyJim]

I don't know about shooting cars, hunting buddy of mine killed a GMC pickup with a 30 06, shot it in the transmission. True story.

His ex's?

[2123]

Car gun is either a revolver or a semi-auto pistol, that usually isn't worth too very much.

It tends to be very used, but still functional, and one that you don't mind losing if it gets stolen from you.

[osbornk]

^^^^^^^
Agreed

[PlatinumCore16]

and one that you don't mind losing if it gets stolen from you

I feel that this is a very poor line of thinking. I would NEVER buy/store/use/hide a gun with the thought that it I won't "care" if it's stolen. I will ALWAYS care if my firearm is stolen, in fact I believe that I started a thread that touches on this issue (see: How to defend your home defense) Skip to the later pages to see posts and discussion starting with Frank Ettin.

If I was to ever have a "car" gun it would be one that is in the car with me, or out of the car with me. Unless there was a disaster area (aka hurricane or something similar) where I would be bringing a gun with me in the car to protect myself and inhabitants and to get us out of the situation. I would never store a gun in my car.

[rpseraph]

The risk of getting my car broken into is waaaayyyy higher than needing a firearm other than my conceal carry.

There is a potential for locking the gun up in the car somewhere/somehow I suppose. So that even if the car gets smashed into, getting the gun would be difficult.

Maybe if I get into a position where I have so many guns I need to start storing them in my car, it will be a different story, haha.

Personal opinion

[2123]

Quote:
and one that you don't mind losing if it gets stolen from you

I feel that this is a very poor line of thinking. I would NEVER buy/store/use/hide a gun with the thought that it I won't "care" if it's stolen. I will ALWAYS care if my firearm is stolen, in fact I believe that I started a thread that touches on this issue (see: How to defend your home defense) Skip to the later pages to see posts and discussion starting with Frank Ettin.

If I was to ever have a "car" gun it would be one that is in the car with me, or out of the car with me. Unless there was a disaster area (aka hurricane or something similar) where I would be bringing a gun with me in the car to protect myself and inhabitants and to get us out of the situation. I would never store a gun in my car.


I suppose that I could have worded that better, but the way I did word it, is very true.

I was a cop for 30 yrs., and I took plenty of stolen gun reports. Those stolen from a vehicle tended to be ones exactly as I described. I'd say 90% of the owners who had them stolen from them, didn't care all that much about the value of the firearm in question.

I'm not saying that I agree with them or how they reacted. But, it is what it is. Many buy a cheap gun just for that purpose, to keep one in a vehicle. They know it's a risk, but they don't care enough to remove it when they are not in the vehicle.

[JoeSixpack]

Id care if a gun was stolen regardless of cost,
But the gun would need to have a low enough value I could afford to lose it in the first place.

It's the same reason I dont have 1000's of dollars in stereo equip or flashy rims on my car.
no political or 2a stickers on the bumper.

When I think of a car gun I think of a situation where I either need or want something beyond my carry gun.

As far as storing the gun in the car.. well it must be nice to never have to disarm and leave your carry gun in the car due to restricted areas, businesses, etc.

Im lucky I have never had my car ripped off, so might feel differently if it was a problem for me.

[2123]

For me, having a firearm stolen is a very big deal. But, not everyone is like me.

Some could care less. I know that for fact. It's not unlike having a circular saw stolen from them.

Most that feel this way, really aren't all that "into" firearms like we on this forum are.

I know, hard to believe that not everyone is a gun nut. Some people collect stamps. How mind numbing is that?

[peggysue]

My "Car Gun".
I had an old 22LR H&R 929 I carried when I worked in Chicago in the early 1980's. Sadly CCW did not exist back then except for the Alderman in Chicago. I had it well hidden inside a light access panel in my hatch back. Never did have to use it in self defense because if I had it would be in Lake Michigan now.