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Old December 4, 2008, 12:45 AM   #1
KUHIO
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I've got wheel weights, Now What!?

Hey guys, I'm getting into reloading, don't yet have bullet casting stuff BUT I've begun collecting wheel weights (I've read here that some of you use them to cast). It just so happens that I'm a tire tech for a construction equipment company, and have access to an endless supply of weights! Aren't you jealous! So how do I use 'em
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Old December 4, 2008, 01:12 AM   #2
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Cast them into ingots that fit in the lead pot. After heating to the corret temp (800 degrees or so) every now and then put in a pea size gob of bullet lube, and stir it. It keeps the tin, zink, lead, etc mixed. Careful it may flair up, dont hurt anything but does make it smoke. Lead fumes aren't dangerous until it gets above 1000 degress but you still want to cast in a well ventolated area.
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Old December 4, 2008, 01:29 AM   #3
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Thanks Kraigwy! What part of Wyoming are you from? My fiance and I want to move to the Cheyenne area after we get married.
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Old December 4, 2008, 02:03 AM   #4
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I would not call myself a great expert,but I believe you want to keep zinc out of the mix.Zinc wheelweights are painted.My understanding is you will compromise the casting quality of the whole batch with zinc.
The good metals are lead,tin,and antimony.Beware the toxicity of lead and antimony.Wearing gloves,washing hands,etc is all good.Heavy metals build up in your body cumulatively.Not trying to scare you off,just take care.
Wear eye protection.
There is an important idea you do not want to learn the hard way.Don't add the rough lead to a pool of molten lead.Start with a cooler pot,fill it,process it and then start over.Why? Picture if you will adding a weight holding some moisture.It goes to superheated steam rapidly and bang,you have a lead plated face.Come up to heat gradually cooks it off.(Once they are ingots,its not so much a problem)
As the batch melts,the steel clips,sand,etc will float to the top.While its ok to remove some obvious contamination at this point,as Kraigwy said,the alloys will separate out and you may skim all the antimony off.Bullet lube works,as do products like Marvelflux,available from Brownell's.As you stir it in,it will remix the alloy.Then,you may skim the trash off,and pour ingots.
Its not a bad idea to stamp the ingots with a ww for weights,a p for sheet lead or lead pipe,and so on.Helps keep track later.
Straight weights works good for me in .44 mag solid loads.
If a fellow is new to casting bullets,he can sure get some ideas reading Paul Matthews books fo casting BPCR bullets.I have done ok making handgun bullets with a Lee bottom pour pot.
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Old December 4, 2008, 02:33 AM   #5
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Ditto on the Lee Bottom pour pot, and the advice given so far. Here's another safety tip: ALWAYS make sure that your ingot mold is BONE DRY and heated before you pour. I found this out the hard way--thank Almighty God I was wearing heavy gloves and a heavy coat, with safety-rated glasses! I had the ENTIRE contents of a 10 pound ingot mold literally explode at me--if I hadn't been wearing the glasses, I would have lost at least one eye; had I not been wearing heavy gloves and clothing, I would have suffered deep tissue burns over my back and entire right arm.

Never get complacent--ALWAYS use good safety procedures.

To initially smelt and clean your wheelweights, I heartily recommend a seperate burner, like the propane burner and stand arrangement for a turkey cooker. Use a cast iron pot to melt in--I got mine for $5.00 from Goodwill.

Use a small pot--even the small ones can hold 20-25 lb. of molten metal.

Be VERY aware that moisture is the enemy--even including the grease still left on the wheelweights.

Fill your pot, turn on or turn up the burner, and stand BACK. Wait until it's melted, COMPLETELY.

Now, fish out the metal clips--they will float up to the top. I use an old steel, wooden-handled spoon with holes drilled in. Dump these into a coffee can, or other metal container. Let the melt stabilize.

Now, flux the mix. Use a small amount of flux--I use Marvelux from Brownell's, and it works well. Wait until it melts, then stir it in steadily. After the crud gets to the top, skim it off.

Now, put your ingot mold on the ground. I recommend laying down a sheet of plywood, if you do it on concrete--no matter how careful you are, you will get some on the concrete, and the wife will give you the devil for it. Don't ask me how I know...

Pour the ingot, and LET IT HARDEN. When you can tap the side and see no jiggling of the melt, it's safe to dump. Dump it out, and do NOT touch it! It will be REALLY hot for quite a while.

After you pour as many ingots as you would like, I recommend spraying down the ingots with water from a hose. This will ensure that they are cool enough to handle. Wipe them off with an old towel that you will NEVER use for anything else, and store them. You're good to go!

For more information that you may need, some time ago I posted a quick guide to starting out in bullet casting. You'll find the first post here: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...+A+Quick+Start

There are four parts to this post. Hope you can use it!
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Old December 4, 2008, 12:15 PM   #6
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KUHIO, before you start, consider melting lead is not as mindless as turning the heat up to 800 degree F and start, there is no combination of lead, tin and antimony that requires that much heat. From 100% lead to a tin mix, the heat to melt could drops by more than 200 degree F.



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Old December 4, 2008, 12:28 PM   #7
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KUHIO, before you start, consider melting lead is not as mindless as turning the heat up to 800 degree F and start, there is no combination of lead, tin and antimony that requires that much heat. From 100% lead to a tin mix, the heat to melt could drops by more than 200 degree F.



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Old December 4, 2008, 12:57 PM   #8
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KUHIO,

Tin / lead/ melting point / brinell hardness
0 / 100/ 618.8 / 3.9
10 / 90/ 577.4 / 10.1
20 / 80/ 532.4 / 12.16
30 / 70/ 491.0 / 14.5
33 / 66/ 441.0 /
40 / 60/ 446.0 / 15.8
50 / 50/ 401.0 / 15.0
60 / 40/ 368.6 / 14.6
66 / 34/ 356.0 / 16.7
70 / 30/ 365.0 / 15.8
80 / 20/ 388.4 / 15.2
90 / 10/ 419.0 / 13.3
100 / 00/ 466.0 / 04.1

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Old December 4, 2008, 01:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
It just so happens that I'm a tire tech for a construction equipment company, and have access to an endless supply of weights! Aren't you jealous!
Yep, jealous as hell.


Quote:
The good metals are lead,tin,and antimony.

Don't forget about linotype.


Quote:
To initially smelt and clean your wheelweights, I heartily recommend a seperate burner, like the propane burner and stand arrangement for a turkey cooker. Use a cast iron pot to melt in--I got mine for $5.00 from Goodwill.
I agree big time. Otherwise, the spout on your nice lead pot gets all clogged up and create a real mess before you get it cleaned back out.

I got a $34 coleman camp stove and rigged a 20lb propane tank and regulator to it. I can melt two five gallon buckets full of wheel weights into two cast iron skillets in a few hours and have them all into ingots. You can really cruise with the separate burner.

I can get about 200 lbs of lead, give or take a few pounds from two full five gallon buckets full of wheelweights. More if they are big rig wheel weights, less when there are a bunch of steel, brass, etc weights.


Quote:
Picture if you will adding a weight holding some moisture.It goes to superheated steam rapidly and bang,you have a lead plated face.
I wanted to add that you should never pour left over sprues swept from the floor into the lead pot. Sort them by hand.

If you reload in the same area there is a good chance there could be an unfired primer in the dustpan along with those sprues. Let me tell you, it ain't a pretty sight and you'll definitely know it if you throw one in a smokin' hot lead pot. A good way to get your attention as regards to safety, but of course, by that time it's too late.
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Old December 4, 2008, 02:06 PM   #10
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And,since we have the combination of a cooling hose and pouring over concrete:-) I promise,you Really Do Not Want to pour melted lead on wet concrete.Trust me on this one!!I think I may have been about 12 when I invented melting lead and pouring it on wet concrete,but just once...
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Old December 4, 2008, 02:22 PM   #11
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If you go on over to the "Cast Boolits" forum you will find TONS of info on the subject and the guys there are reall helpful.

Unlimited supply of WW's....you make me sick!
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Old December 4, 2008, 05:09 PM   #12
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Lead fumes aren't dangerous until it gets above 1000 degress but you still want to cast in a well ventolated area.
Molten lead emits fumes regardless the temperature. Good ventilation should be a primary consideration.
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Old December 4, 2008, 05:22 PM   #13
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Welcome. You will want to melt the WW's and pour them into ingot that will fit in a casting pot. I use a turkey fryer type setup. I got the pot with lid for $12 at Harbor Freight. The Burner is 186,000 BTU and will melt lead fast. Keep the temp at 700 degrees or a little less and you don't have to worry about the zinc weights melting. You can skim them off with the clips.

The rectangular molds I made at work and my wife bought me the muffin pans. The one gallon cans in the back are to put the clips in when they are scooped out. You will spill some lead so put plywood or something under it. You will need something for flux. I use wax. You can buy it at the craft store or any old candles will work. I also stir the lead with an old broken shovel handle. You will need some kind of spoons. I bought a 20" slotted to skim clips and 24" solid to skim dross. They were cheap at the restraint supply store.

You will need a ladle to pour the ingots. This is a Rowell #3 that I bought on the net for around $30. It will hold 4 pounds of lead.

A decent thermometer to keep an eye on the temp and you should be good to go.

It's not as expensive as you might think. I'm only into this for around $100 to $120. When you go to cast you should only need to add a production pot and mold. If I forgot anything I'm sure somebody will notice.
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Old December 4, 2008, 07:56 PM   #14
KUHIO
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CrustyFN- Wow, cool thanks! I picked up a ton of weights today just cleaning up around our wheel balancer!! A few more weeks and of I'll have a few 5 gal. buckets full of this stuff! We buy truck weights in bulk packaging, I'll talk my boss into 'losing' a couple boxes when I need it
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Old December 4, 2008, 08:16 PM   #15
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Remember that stick on weights are almost pure lead with a BHN of 6. Clip on weights are harder with a BHN of 10-12. If you don't shoot bp save the stick on weights. You can sell or give them to someone that does shoot bp.
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Old December 4, 2008, 08:53 PM   #16
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I have been lucky and have been getting all of my WW's for free from two local tire shops. I have close to 1,000 pounds. I haven't been getting many stick-ons and very few zinc. I will throw a handful of stick-ons in with the clip-ons. I tested a couple of bullets last night and they had a BHN of 14.3. I also add around three feet of 95/5 solder ( 95% tin and 5% antimony ) to my production pot to help the lead flow good in the mold.
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Last edited by CrustyFN; December 7, 2008 at 12:36 PM.
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Old December 4, 2008, 09:02 PM   #17
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You are lucky. I'm still getting some free but it's getting harder to do. I shoot a lot of bp and mostly use the stick ons. Thankfully I'm still getting some but get more clip ons than anything. Also I'm getting more zinc these days, not much but it's increasing.
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Old December 4, 2008, 09:19 PM   #18
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This is the setup I have, for thirty bucks you can get this lead melter brand new at MidwayUSA.com, and for another fifteen bucks the lead scooper. Works like a champ. But first I take the wheel weights and melt them down outside and pour them into small muffin tins. I coat the muffin tins with soot using my acetylene torch (no oxygen). With the tins I can make much bigger ingots that will nearly fill my lead melter, plus I can cast them way faster than small ingots (the molds can be expensive). I got all my muffin tins from Goodwill for a couple bucks each.

I posted some photos of my operation when I made some muzzle loading bullets. I used soft lead for these and save the wheel weights for my pistol and rifle ammo, check it out:

Bullet Casting for the Muzzleloader



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Old December 4, 2008, 10:00 PM   #19
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All of the Lee pots at Midway are backorder. Try here. http://www.fmreloading.com/cgi-bin/m...e=Melting+Pots
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Old December 5, 2008, 12:11 AM   #20
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I'm not hip on all the lingo, what is 'bp' ? Most of the weights we use are truck weights (stick on) though I do alos have clip on. Is there anything I can add to increase BHN? Another question; can I shoot lead out of a semi auto? Do I need to cast round nose if I do?
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Old December 5, 2008, 04:23 AM   #21
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bp is black powder.bpcr is black powder cartridge rifle.Most muzzle loader black powder projectiles are pure soft lead.Most black powder cartridge rifle shooting is done with a lead tin mix,what works.Maybe 1 to 20,but it varies.
I think 1 in 20 might be about what Elmer Keith shot in his early .44 mags.There is an alloy called "Lyman #2 " you might want to read about.Lyman is a good source of bullet casting supplies.You will likely want to get a sizer/luber.Used orange Lymans or grey RCBS ones show up at gunshows cheap.
When I say "wheelweight alloy" I mean the traditional clip on car weight.I don't know what variations you might find.
That alloy,with a good lube,will work well with full power .44 mag rifle velocities.
As far as what will work in an auto pistol,yes,wheelweight is good.Some handguns tolerate different bullet shapes better than others.You may need a round nose.Many 1911's work very well with semi wadcutters.I rather like 200 gr swc's in a 1911 .45
There is a lot to learn,and you have been offered some good resources.I'm going to slip in one more safety caution.You have asked about semi-autos.
If a bullet is set back in the case during feedin(if the cartridge LOA is short at firing) pressures can(will) increase dramatically.As a bullet caster,you have two tools.One,you have some control over bullet diameter(neck tension).You will also want to use a taper crimp die,to make sure the bullet is held securely.
Many different cast bullets are available pre-cast and lubed.Trying them can be cheaper than buying a lot of diferent molds.
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Old December 5, 2008, 07:21 PM   #22
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I'm with HiBC and the SWC. I cast a 200 grain SWC with a Lyman 452460 four cavity mold.

When you pour you will actually want more sprue on the top, seems to fill out better for me.

I have never used a ladle pour pot but a lot of people love them. I like a bottom pour pot. I have a Lee 10 pound and it works great. I just bought the 20 pound but haven't used it yet.

Hawg Haggen another source of lead you might want to look at is the foil from the xrays at the Dentist. I just picked up 70 pounds at my Dentist but haven't had a chance to melt it or test it yet.




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Old December 6, 2008, 08:00 PM   #23
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As Crusty said above, adding tin to the alloy will significantly improve the casting of most bullets. It aids in flow and filling the mold. I use 1 lb of 50 / 50 solder to 10 lb of wheelweighs to gain a 5% tin alloy. Works for me.
Always wear goggles or at least good eye protection. You can get skin grafts but not eye grafts.

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Old December 7, 2008, 12:44 PM   #24
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Always wear goggles or at least good eye protection. You can get skin grafts but not eye grafts.
Great point. Always make sure there is no moisture on the weights when adding them to an already hot pot. It has not happened to me but lead tinsel isn't fun.
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