Masterpiece S&W 1955

SCCARMY · April 20, 2016, 01:46 PM

Hello everyone,

I am new to the forum and this is the first thread. So being that it is my first thread, I figure I should start out with class. I would like to get everyone's opinion on value of one of my guns.

The gun is a S&W 45 Revolver Model 1955 and to my knowledge it is a one of a kind piece. It has never been fired and was owned by my uncle who was on the Army competition shooting team in the 1950s. I think he may have one this from one of his competitions; however it is equally as likely that he purchased it from S&W.

Well that is it for now, I look forward to comments.

(I have more pics and will attach higher quality ones later)

Cheers,

SCCARMY · April 20, 2016, 01:48 PM

Here are some additional pictures

BarryLee · April 20, 2016, 01:55 PM

Wow, nice gun. I believe S&W has someone on staff that can help you with the provenance of this gun You might want to call their Customer Service line and see if they can offer any more details.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...4_757812_image

James K · April 20, 2016, 02:04 PM

That is very good engraving, but I don't think it is factory. The reason is that S&W factory engravers never (AFAIK) engraved the area on the cylinder between the stop notches, where the stop leaves drag marks, since the stop would "smear" the engraving. (Yes, I know such a gun would probably never be fired, but the factory always assumes it is first a gun and only secondly an art work.)

Jim

444 · April 20, 2016, 03:22 PM

That is incredible.

That last picture of the stocks.............WOW !

You are correct, that is a masterpiece.

kilimanjaro · April 20, 2016, 06:12 PM

Very nice, indeed.

Bill DeShivs · April 20, 2016, 07:55 PM

My bet is that it IS factory engraving.
S&W can tell you.

2damnold4this · April 21, 2016, 06:28 AM

Very impressive.

**Mike Irwin** · April 21, 2016, 08:07 AM

I agree with Jim, it's not factory engraving. The style is reminiscent of some of the post 1900 engravers, but as he points out there are certain tells that it was done outside of the factory.

Without examining it, it's hard to say just how good the engraver was, but it would appear from the photos that he was very good.

Valuing such a gun can be very difficult because they are literally one off pieces and there's often not much to compare them against.

With a factory engraved gun, you have all of the other factory engraved guns in the same era to form the comparison.

It could be that the engraver signed it somewhere. If so, that can go a long way towards helping establish a value level, especially if the engraver is a known person.

**Mike Irwin** · April 21, 2016, 08:23 AM

"My bet is that it IS factory engraving.
S&W can tell you."

Jim's right. Even on their presentation guns, S&W didn't engrave the area around the cylinder notches, at least not in such a manner that the engraving would be damaged by the cylinder bolt.

Russell Smith would engrave as close as you could get to the drag area, but wouldn't encroach on it. He always left an area engraving free where the cylinder bolt would drag.

Also, Smith & Wesson engravers tended not to engrave inside the cylinder flutes. That's almost a dead giveaway of aftermarket engraving.

Here's some of Smith's work, and you'll see what I mean about the drag line area...

http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/63/lid/3482

My guess, thinking about this some more, and given the extensive gold work?

This revolver was engraved and embellished by a high end jeweler in a major city like New York or Chicago.

If it was one of the big firms, it might be possible to identify the work from the engraving pattern alone.

It's also possible that the gun was purchased and sent directly to a jeweler or engraver for use as a presentation gun.

Spending the money on the S&W research letter is a wise investment.

James K · April 21, 2016, 09:56 AM

Another indication of the quality of engraving in scroll work is the "broken" scroll. That is where the engraver starts to cut a circle and then finds out that (oops!) he has run out of space and has to change the angle of the arc, making in a way, a football out of what was intended to be a basketball. With engraving, as with many other things in life, the devil is in the details.

A comparison between the engraving on the OP's revolver and that on the Rock Island gun will (IMHO) show the latter work to be superior.

As an aside, many years ago I was at an NRA convention when they still held them in D.C. S&W had a factory engraver working at their booth, actually engraving a revolver right there. While he cut perfect scrolls, he chatted with the other S&W employees and with the people around him, talking about the day's news, the weather, his experience, or whatever. I have never seen anything like it; I could not have done my work under those conditions, and I doubt many could, but he was "on automatic", fingers and hands seemingly working without conscious control. That man, whoever he was, was a real pro.

Jim

SCCARMY · April 21, 2016, 12:03 PM

Hello again,

I really appreciate all of the comments you guys have made. I contacted the S&W Collectors Asc. and they provided me the letter I need to send to S&W to determine if this is in fact a S&W engraving. From their comments, they believe that it is a factory engraving; but held back from saying 100%. I will have some high quality pictures taken and get the letter and photos to S&W in the next week or so. I am very excited to hear what they have to say. The most amazing thing would be to find out exactly who the engraver is/was.

Cheers,

**Mike Irwin** · April 22, 2016, 11:24 AM

I'm really looking forward to hearing more about this.

I'm also noticing that what I thought were several badly cut floral scrolls in the steel are actually in the engraving in the wood of the grip extensions.

I can't see the engraving clearly enough in any of the pictures to really make an assessment.

But, there's one more feature that makes me think that this was not a factory-engraved gun...

Picture B, of the barrel...

Smith & Wesson is not completely framed in the gold inlay.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that a factory engraver would ever let the company name run out of the cartouche.

Bill DeShivs · April 22, 2016, 12:05 PM

Picture C appears to show considerable pitting under the bluing, but I could be wrong. Otherwise, I would say the gun was engraved by a master engraver in 100% coverage style, with gold inlays and carved grips. Options like this were available from S&W if you wanted to pay the price. You could even send your gun in to them and have the work done.

April 20, 2016, 01:55 PM	#3
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	Wow, nice gun. I believe S&W has someone on staff that can help you with the provenance of this gun You might want to call their Customer Service line and see if they can offer any more details. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...4_757812_image __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman Last edited by BarryLee; April 20, 2016 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Added link

April 20, 2016, 03:22 PM	#5
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	That is incredible. That last picture of the stocks.............WOW ! You are correct, that is a masterpiece. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

April 20, 2016, 07:55 PM	#7
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,980	My bet is that it IS factory engraving. S&W can tell you. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

April 21, 2016, 08:07 AM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	I agree with Jim, it's not factory engraving. The style is reminiscent of some of the post 1900 engravers, but as he points out there are certain tells that it was done outside of the factory. Without examining it, it's hard to say just how good the engraver was, but it would appear from the photos that he was very good. Valuing such a gun can be very difficult because they are literally one off pieces and there's often not much to compare them against. With a factory engraved gun, you have all of the other factory engraved guns in the same era to form the comparison. It could be that the engraver signed it somewhere. If so, that can go a long way towards helping establish a value level, especially if the engraver is a known person. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 21, 2016, 08:23 AM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"My bet is that it IS factory engraving. S&W can tell you." Jim's right. Even on their presentation guns, S&W didn't engrave the area around the cylinder notches, at least not in such a manner that the engraving would be damaged by the cylinder bolt. Russell Smith would engrave as close as you could get to the drag area, but wouldn't encroach on it. He always left an area engraving free where the cylinder bolt would drag. Also, Smith & Wesson engravers tended not to engrave inside the cylinder flutes. That's almost a dead giveaway of aftermarket engraving. Here's some of Smith's work, and you'll see what I mean about the drag line area... http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/63/lid/3482 My guess, thinking about this some more, and given the extensive gold work? This revolver was engraved and embellished by a high end jeweler in a major city like New York or Chicago. If it was one of the big firms, it might be possible to identify the work from the engraving pattern alone. It's also possible that the gun was purchased and sent directly to a jeweler or engraver for use as a presentation gun. Spending the money on the S&W research letter is a wise investment. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 20, 2016, 02:04 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That is very good engraving, but I don't think it is factory. The reason is that S&W factory engravers never (AFAIK) engraved the area on the cylinder between the stop notches, where the stop leaves drag marks, since the stop would "smear" the engraving. (Yes, I know such a gun would probably never be fired, but the factory always assumes it is first a gun and only secondly an art work.) Jim

April 20, 2016, 06:12 PM	#6
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Very nice, indeed.

April 21, 2016, 06:28 AM	#8
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	Very impressive.

April 21, 2016, 09:56 AM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Another indication of the quality of engraving in scroll work is the "broken" scroll. That is where the engraver starts to cut a circle and then finds out that (oops!) he has run out of space and has to change the angle of the arc, making in a way, a football out of what was intended to be a basketball. With engraving, as with many other things in life, the devil is in the details. A comparison between the engraving on the OP's revolver and that on the Rock Island gun will (IMHO) show the latter work to be superior. As an aside, many years ago I was at an NRA convention when they still held them in D.C. S&W had a factory engraver working at their booth, actually engraving a revolver right there. While he cut perfect scrolls, he chatted with the other S&W employees and with the people around him, talking about the day's news, the weather, his experience, or whatever. I have never seen anything like it; I could not have done my work under those conditions, and I doubt many could, but he was "on automatic", fingers and hands seemingly working without conscious control. That man, whoever he was, was a real pro. Jim

April 21, 2016, 12:03 PM	#12
SCCARMY Junior Member Join Date: April 14, 2016 Location: Virginia Posts: 3	Thank you Everyone Hello again, I really appreciate all of the comments you guys have made. I contacted the S&W Collectors Asc. and they provided me the letter I need to send to S&W to determine if this is in fact a S&W engraving. From their comments, they believe that it is a factory engraving; but held back from saying 100%. I will have some high quality pictures taken and get the letter and photos to S&W in the next week or so. I am very excited to hear what they have to say. The most amazing thing would be to find out exactly who the engraver is/was. Cheers, __________________ Stephen C [email protected] “Remember the only person that can compromise your integrity is you!”

April 22, 2016, 11:24 AM	#13
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	I'm really looking forward to hearing more about this. I'm also noticing that what I thought were several badly cut floral scrolls in the steel are actually in the engraving in the wood of the grip extensions. I can't see the engraving clearly enough in any of the pictures to really make an assessment. But, there's one more feature that makes me think that this was not a factory-engraved gun... Picture B, of the barrel... Smith & Wesson is not completely framed in the gold inlay. I'm sorry, but I don't buy that a factory engraver would ever let the company name run out of the cartouche. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 22, 2016, 12:05 PM	#14
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,980	Picture C appears to show considerable pitting under the bluing, but I could be wrong. Otherwise, I would say the gun was engraved by a master engraver in 100% coverage style, with gold inlays and carved grips. Options like this were available from S&W if you wanted to pay the price. You could even send your gun in to them and have the work done. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

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