Uzi carbine: 16" barrel, 24" OAL

ISC · November 14, 2008, 04:08 PM

I recently acquired a Vector uzi carbine that was manufactured wiith a 16" barrel and 24" overall length when the stock is folded. NFA requires a 26" OAL.

I've heard that the OAL is measured with the stock extended so long as the stock isn't detatchable.

I have disassembled the rifle and am ordering a wood buttstock, but they are quick detatchable and I'll have to modify it to make it permanent.

I looked on the ATF site and couldn't find anything saying that my carbine is OK just like it is.

Does anyone know about a ruling on this?

Trapp · November 14, 2008, 04:29 PM

I know you want to see something, BUT I know that the federal agency I belong to measures with the stock extended fully.

Only certain states (Michigan I believe) measure with the stock collapsed.

MeekAndMild · November 15, 2008, 12:21 AM

Why not call Vector and ask them for whatever ATF letter they have on file? I have a hard time believing that they would endanger their FFL by selling illegal guns.

But I suppose if one was really worrying over it they could take their folding stock to a welding shop and have it welded open.

PTK · November 15, 2008, 12:38 AM

The Feds count the OAL with the stock extended. Commonly overlooked, but true.

David Hineline · November 15, 2008, 02:41 AM

Detatchable or folding or collapsing doed not matter by federal law, so unless Florida has a state law against it you are good to go as you are.

ISC · November 15, 2008, 03:54 AM

That's what I keep hearing I was hoping that someone would have a publication nymber or link supporting that.

PTK · November 15, 2008, 04:30 AM

Quote:

This is in reply to your correspondence which was received by the Firearms Technology Branch, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), on January 30, 2008. In your letter you inquire about the attachment of a folding stock to a pistol having a barrel length of 16 inches or greater.

As background, 27 CFR Sec. 479.11 (Meaning of Terms) states, in part:

The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.

Based on this description of overall length and its correct measurement, ATF has taken the position that firearms having folding or collapsible stocks are properly measured for overall length with the stock fully extended.

In the situation you present, the attachment of a folding shoulder stock to a pistol having a barrel length of 16 inches or greater would be lawful as long as the overall length of the resulting firearm is at least 26 inches with the stock fully extended. We caution that, because the configuration you have specified results in the manufacture of a rifle, a subsequent reconfiguration of the firearm to a pistol configuration would result in a weapon made from a rifle, which is a weapon controlled by the National Firearms Act (NFA).

We thank you for your inquiry and trust that the foregoing has been responsive.

Sincerely yours,

John R. Spencer
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

PDF of 27 CFR Sec. 479.1. Search for "extreme ends" and you'll find the relevant passage.

ISC · November 16, 2008, 02:01 PM

thank you, that is exactly what I needed.

November 14, 2008, 04:08 PM	#1
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	Uzi carbine: 16" barrel, 24" OAL I recently acquired a Vector uzi carbine that was manufactured wiith a 16" barrel and 24" overall length when the stock is folded. NFA requires a 26" OAL. I've heard that the OAL is measured with the stock extended so long as the stock isn't detatchable. I have disassembled the rifle and am ordering a wood buttstock, but they are quick detatchable and I'll have to modify it to make it permanent. I looked on the ATF site and couldn't find anything saying that my carbine is OK just like it is. Does anyone know about a ruling on this?

November 14, 2008, 04:29 PM	#2
Trapp Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: KTN Posts: 1,221	I know you want to see something, BUT I know that the federal agency I belong to measures with the stock extended fully. Only certain states (Michigan I believe) measure with the stock collapsed. __________________ HDR Ban!? It's a shame all of my guns sank with my boat last week... Time to catch up.....like mayonnaise

November 15, 2008, 12:21 AM	#3
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	Why not call Vector and ask them for whatever ATF letter they have on file? I have a hard time believing that they would endanger their FFL by selling illegal guns. But I suppose if one was really worrying over it they could take their folding stock to a welding shop and have it welded open. __________________ In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.

November 15, 2008, 12:38 AM	#4
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	The Feds count the OAL with the stock extended. Commonly overlooked, but true.

November 15, 2008, 02:41 AM	#5
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Detatchable or folding or collapsing doed not matter by federal law, so unless Florida has a state law against it you are good to go as you are.

November 15, 2008, 03:54 AM	#6
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	That's what I keep hearing I was hoping that someone would have a publication nymber or link supporting that.

November 16, 2008, 02:01 PM	#8
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	thank you, that is exactly what I needed.