Winchester 1897, DIY or just the ramblings of an old man.

Two_Dogs · April 19, 2025, 07:06 AM

My Winchester 97, 12ga. E series, 1950 wouldn't eject so i changed the ejector to no avail. So diggin deeper found the left extractor was broken.

I seen on a SASS page about using a coil spring conversion, so i drilled a shallow hole, threw a coil spring in there and reused the old extractor extractor

I reshaped the claw on the left ejector also, It was sharp and not letting go of the rim on ejection.

I was getting very little ejection and sometimes the shell would spin around inside the receiver. A SASS member told me to put a small ball bearing in the right extractor cavity to strengthen that side power.
That got me about 6" of ejection and the shell didn't dance around in the receiver anymore.
Pretty good indication it had some weak springs.
First replacement was the ejector spring. This required a little fitting since it extended into the receiver too far. No big deal, that's easy.
Didn't really realize any gain, I forget where i bought the last one. All these new parts come from the Outlaw Gambler. He has an online store, classicoldwestarms.com
Next was the right extractor spring, the old one measured 12.8 mm and the new one was 14 mm. long, both springs coils were .02K thick.
This showed much improvement, about 2.5' of ejection but the shell spun like the blades on a huey, only clockwise.
Next the left extractor, when the original leaf spring broke i did the coil spring conversion, only i used the old blade, i know I'm a cheap B@$+@%>!. I didn't know what size spring to use so i used a spare out of a repair kit for my AR. It was sadly underpowered. The new spring coils are .022K thick and needed to be cut to size. I cut it so that the rear blade of the extractor would almost close when i put the pin back in.
This showed much improvement also. Blew me away, I'm getting about 3.5 - 4' of ejection with very little spin.
It's crazy, the Winchester AA spin left and the Remington STS spin right? Who knows.
Anyway I'm happy with this now, was a journey but hey, such is life.

Jim Watson · April 19, 2025, 12:29 PM

What do you mean by "spin"? If they all get clear of the gun, I am not watching their antics.

tangolima · April 19, 2025, 12:55 PM

The left extractor, I would deepen the hook, but engagement angle must be negative, so that it lets go when the rim tries to escape. Its nose needs to rounded to act as auxiliary ejector to kick the shell out if the action is cycled slowly. The right extractor, however, engagement angle must be positive to hold on to the rim till the last moment. Both extractors require some cam-out.

Most, if not all, ejection problems are extractor problems. It is sorta gunsmith's doctrine.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Two_Dogs · April 19, 2025, 01:39 PM

For sure Jim, if I'm shootin a firearm, any firearm i don't usually watch the shell fly'n either, except to collect brass.
I'm try'n to tune these extractors, kinda like adjusting gas on an AR. But yeah i get the jist of what ur say'n.

Tangolima, when i get back home in a couple hours I'll break it down again and post pics of the extractors. Any comments will be appreciated.
Thanks for any input.

Two_Dogs · April 19, 2025, 04:37 PM

Screenshot_20250419_160819.jpg

Two_Dogs · April 19, 2025, 04:52 PM

Screenshot_20250419_160751.jpg

tangolima · April 19, 2025, 05:07 PM

The one with rounded nose is the left extractor? It looks alright. However, the other one (right extractor) doesn't seem positive. It will let go under tension. Send me PM, and I can email you to explain positive engagement angle.

When a shell is on the bolt face, does the rim push out the extractors slightly? That's cam-out. You need that. Also when you lightly shake the bolt, does the shell fall off the bolt face?

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Two_Dogs · April 19, 2025, 08:17 PM

Thanks for the reply Tangolima, Sorry for the delay.
Empty shells hold onto the bolt under "light" shaking but that's about it.
Loaded doesn't hold well at all.
Sent P.M.

tangolima · April 19, 2025, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two_Dogs

Thanks for the reply Tangolima, Sorry for the delay.
Empty shells hold onto the bolt under "light" shaking but that's about it.
Loaded doesn't hold well at all.
Sent P.M.

The extractors need fitting then. It should hold onto a fresh shell with moderate shaking. Will get back to you soon as I can. I need to draw some pictures to explain.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

April 19, 2025, 07:06 AM	#1
Two_Dogs Junior Member Join Date: April 7, 2025 Location: East central Hoosier Posts: 5	Winchester 1897, DIY or just the ramblings of an old man. My Winchester 97, 12ga. E series, 1950 wouldn't eject so i changed the ejector to no avail. So diggin deeper found the left extractor was broken. I seen on a SASS page about using a coil spring conversion, so i drilled a shallow hole, threw a coil spring in there and reused the old extractor extractor I reshaped the claw on the left ejector also, It was sharp and not letting go of the rim on ejection. I was getting very little ejection and sometimes the shell would spin around inside the receiver. A SASS member told me to put a small ball bearing in the right extractor cavity to strengthen that side power. That got me about 6" of ejection and the shell didn't dance around in the receiver anymore. Pretty good indication it had some weak springs. First replacement was the ejector spring. This required a little fitting since it extended into the receiver too far. No big deal, that's easy. Didn't really realize any gain, I forget where i bought the last one. All these new parts come from the Outlaw Gambler. He has an online store, classicoldwestarms.com Next was the right extractor spring, the old one measured 12.8 mm and the new one was 14 mm. long, both springs coils were .02K thick. This showed much improvement, about 2.5' of ejection but the shell spun like the blades on a huey, only clockwise. Next the left extractor, when the original leaf spring broke i did the coil spring conversion, only i used the old blade, i know I'm a cheap B@$+@%>!. I didn't know what size spring to use so i used a spare out of a repair kit for my AR. It was sadly underpowered. The new spring coils are .022K thick and needed to be cut to size. I cut it so that the rear blade of the extractor would almost close when i put the pin back in. This showed much improvement also. Blew me away, I'm getting about 3.5 - 4' of ejection with very little spin. It's crazy, the Winchester AA spin left and the Remington STS spin right? Who knows. Anyway I'm happy with this now, was a journey but hey, such is life. Last edited by Two_Dogs; April 20, 2025 at 10:53 AM.

April 19, 2025, 04:37 PM	#5
Two_Dogs Junior Member Join Date: April 7, 2025 Location: East central Hoosier Posts: 5	Bolt pics Screenshot_20250419_160819.jpg

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

April 19, 2025, 12:29 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,117	What do you mean by "spin"? If they all get clear of the gun, I am not watching their antics.

April 19, 2025, 12:55 PM	#3
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 4,984	The left extractor, I would deepen the hook, but engagement angle must be negative, so that it lets go when the rim tries to escape. Its nose needs to rounded to act as auxiliary ejector to kick the shell out if the action is cycled slowly. The right extractor, however, engagement angle must be positive to hold on to the rim till the last moment. Both extractors require some cam-out. Most, if not all, ejection problems are extractor problems. It is sorta gunsmith's doctrine. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

April 19, 2025, 01:39 PM	#4
Two_Dogs Junior Member Join Date: April 7, 2025 Location: East central Hoosier Posts: 5	For sure Jim, if I'm shootin a firearm, any firearm i don't usually watch the shell fly'n either, except to collect brass. I'm try'n to tune these extractors, kinda like adjusting gas on an AR. But yeah i get the jist of what ur say'n. Tangolima, when i get back home in a couple hours I'll break it down again and post pics of the extractors. Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks for any input.

April 19, 2025, 04:52 PM	#6
Two_Dogs Junior Member Join Date: April 7, 2025 Location: East central Hoosier Posts: 5	Screenshot_20250419_160751.jpg

April 19, 2025, 05:07 PM	#7
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 4,984	The one with rounded nose is the left extractor? It looks alright. However, the other one (right extractor) doesn't seem positive. It will let go under tension. Send me PM, and I can email you to explain positive engagement angle. When a shell is on the bolt face, does the rim push out the extractors slightly? That's cam-out. You need that. Also when you lightly shake the bolt, does the shell fall off the bolt face? -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

April 19, 2025, 08:17 PM	#8
Two_Dogs Junior Member Join Date: April 7, 2025 Location: East central Hoosier Posts: 5	Thanks for the reply Tangolima, Sorry for the delay. Empty shells hold onto the bolt under "light" shaking but that's about it. Loaded doesn't hold well at all. Sent P.M.